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Jesus condemned what the Jews were teaching in His time. So it would seem if anything He was using their heresy and hypocrisy against them, while condemning them and pronouncing their impending doom via Rome.You might get a fairly thorough overview by reading my posts in this thread e.g. [post #251]., above, I document everything I post and provide links whenever possible.
I have posted and provided a link to what Jews contemporary with Jesus understood about Isaiah 66:24.
Good news for those that are "down in the dumps". - lol
I hope that translates well enough. To me, the term "down in the dumps" means feeling sad. And of course, a dump is a garbage site.
Unsupported inflammatory rhetoric. In current parlance "cancel culture."I tend to concur with Brian's answers, but not fully.
The idea that hell is a 'necessary evil' to keep ppl on the 'straight and narrow' is totally debunked. It was an error of the early church (who used to teach it to catachumen as 'milk' and then progressively reveal the truth of salvation of all as 'meat' for the maturing disciple). I say error because it reflects a lack of trust in God and imposes a terrorist spiritual politics into the world. This is exactly how the Pharisees were inflicting the idea of Gehenna on to the people, and why Jesus is always 'flipping' it on on them eg, in the story of Richie and Lazarus, and the various indictments eg 'Sons of Hell', 'how are you gonna escape the judgment of hell', and so on.
The passage in Matt 10:28-33 (within the Matt 10 context) is very instructive on this, because it starts with the warning that God is more to be feared than man, because of His power to destroy the soul, but continues to say 'fear not, you're worth more than many sparrows' (v.31), then further to warn If you disown me on earth I'll disown you before the Father in heaven' (v.32-33). The chapter ends with a verse about a little kindness to brethren will ensure a disciple's reward is not lost (v.42).
Jesus here is busy correcting and redeeming the 'fear of God' from a 'spiritual terrorism' model to an 'offence against Love' model. The disciple should fear the shame of letting down their Father and friend, losing the honour and trust gained as the reward of keeping faith and walking in grace.
The terrorist model was again taken up by the Catholic church and particularly from the Emperor Justinian, who (with the help of Augustinian theology) reintroduced Roman law and anathematised the holy universalism of 'Origenism', in favour of an aristotelian materialistic naturalistic modality.
I believe that this was when God began to turn His face away from the church, and this led to the deepening of corruption, medievalism, the sack of Contantinople and the crusades, the schism, the reformation, modernism, and the total mess that variously calls itself 'the Church' we see today, that's willing to shut up shop for Passover/ Easter communion and pretend its ok to do it via Zoom, because of some fake health scare. Blind guides abound, so many under the sorceries of babylon. The mark of the Beast and revealing of the man of sin are just around the corner.
If people had been prepared to maintain the trust in God that giving others the simple apostolic good news that God was reconciled to them, and all they needed to do was to look to Christ to be free from the curse of sin and death, without the 'extra motivation' of a bonus afterlife fire insurance policy, we could all be living in the Kingdom now. But Satan got in and tempted man back to self-righteousness, vanity, cruelty and the night terrors.
Forgive us Father and save us from the tyranny of our flesh, for we are but dust, serpent-fodder.
Nonsense. Twisting the words of scripture and the historical sources trying to make them say what you want them to.Jesus condemned what the Jews were teaching in His time. So it would seem if anything He was using their heresy and hypocrisy against them, while condemning them and pronouncing their impending doom via Rome.
I don't think orthodoxy denies eternal punishment.
And people who think and feel that way are not born again, and nothing they do will get them to heaven.
Unsupported inflammatory rhetoric. In current parlance "cancel culture."
Re; your comment "because of some fake health scare." A pastor friend of mine, his wife and adult son were hospitalized by that "fake health scare." I lost a brother and a sister in January. The father of a friend also died for that "fake health scare."
Please explain in the OT why were people segregated who had a draining sore, menstrual period, touched a dead body etc? Couldn't God just instantly make them clean?
Post #24 by @ViaCrucis here really addresses this well.Christianity is so pagan in some respects. I can't believe we still use the word Easter as the day to celebrate the resurrection of Christ. - lol
Just because they misdiagnose something doesn't make it so, der Alte. Truth is the agent has never been properly isolated, characterised, let alone proven pathogenic. So I'm sorry for your loss, but you'll find the answers in influenza and pneumonia.
You missed the point. They were cleansed but they first had to isolate. Which seems to be a fairly effective way of preventing the spread of disease/uncleanness.Not instantly, but they were cleansed and returned. The LoF may seem like an eternity to the hardened reprobate, but he can't resist the fullers soap treatment forever.
Nonsense. Twisting the words of scripture and the historical sources trying to make them say what you want them to.
While I occasionally read arguments about it here, I don't have a strong enough opinion on the subject to usually get involved in arguments about it. Normally when I do it's because there's a specific argument or statement someone made (on either side of the issue) that I think was fallacious.I think you are correct about Gehenna not being a garbage dump. Even though I have heard the argument that it was. In a quick search I couldn't find any data to prove otherwise. There may be proof, I just haven't found it.
What are your thoughts on some of the other claims of UR? Do you believe in a forever burning hell?
And you got your medical degree where?
You missed the point. They were cleansed but they first had to isolate. Which seems to be a fairly effective way of preventing the spread of disease/uncleanness.
What I think everyone should do is when scripture as written contradicts their strongly held assumptions/presuppositions just consider them symbolic, poetic, allegory, metaphor, figurative any thing but literal. <sarcasm>
Right. I have a sister-in-law who was raised in the church, who says she can't believe in a God that would do that to people. Which left us with trying to explain that which makes no sense. This was part of the catalyst that pushed me toward my current position of UR support.As far as those not born again, most of them talk about their loved ones being in heaven and tell people they disapprove of to "burn in hell". And also refrain from things like murder in fear of hell where "really bad people" go.
Exactly.Just because they misdiagnose something doesn't make it so, der Alte. Truth is the agent has never been properly isolated, characterised, let alone proven pathogenic. So I'm sorry for your loss, but you'll find the answers in influenza and pneumonia.
Not instantly, but they were cleansed and returned. The LoF may seem like an eternity to the hardened reprobate, but he can't resist the fullers soap treatment forever.
You might get a fairly thorough overview by reading my posts in this thread e.g. [post #251]., above, I document everything I post and provide links whenever possible.
I have posted and provided a link to what Jews contemporary with Jesus understood about Isaiah 66:24.
Thanks. But it seems to confirm what I wrote, don't you think?Post #24 by @ViaCrucis here really addresses this well.
That makes sense. No reason to argue a side until you have chosen a side.While I occasionally read arguments about it here, I don't have a strong enough opinion on the subject to usually get involved in arguments about it. Normally when I do it's because there's a specific argument or statement someone made (on either side of the issue) that I think was fallacious.
Christianity is so pagan in some respects. I can't believe we still use the word Easter as the day to celebrate the resurrection of Christ. - lol
Right. I had a whole list in the composition of an earlier post. But I deleted it because it would have been very offensive to some of our pals here. Blessed are the peacemakers. (hold my tongue)Yeah, but we make up for it with Christmas. Nothing pagan in that.
Thanks, BrianHere's a good conversation about David Bentley Hart's book:
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