Darwinism: Science or philosophy?

[alexgb00]

On July 20, 1944, history might have taken a completely different turn.

Hitler was having some kind of meeting with his most senior officers and officials. A few men conspired to get rid of Hitler. One of them brought a time-bomb to the meeting in a suitcase, and put it next to Hitler under the desk. He then excused himself to go to the bathroom, but while gone, another man sat next to Hitler and moved the suitcase to the far end of the table. When it exploded, many men were killed but Hitler survived.

Blader, after this incident, Hitler executed thousands of officials, although only about 300 were involved. He had the executions filmed, and he watched them in his free-time -- footage of men being strangled with piano strings.

Do you honestly mean to even imply that Hitler was a Christian? Even if you don't really believe this, why advocate such a view?

 

[alexgb00]

Blader, i don't like to argue like this either. I enjoy calm discussions where people don't rebutt the same arguments back and forth.

OK, Have a good night, Blader. God bless you!
Alex

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Well done blader, even though Christian Soldier's Hitler quotations are clearly more legitimate than yours.

Perhaps you need the assistance of the "Holy Spirit" to correctly interpret Mein Kampf as well as the Bible.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Blader's primary source for his info, Jim Walker at nobeliefs.com---is putting out blatantly false information. He claims that Hitler was a Biblical Creationist. Walker is easily refuted by Hitler himself:

"At this point someone or other may laugh, but this planet once moved through the ether for millions of years without human beings and it can do so again some day if men forget that they owe their higher existence, not to the ideas of a few crazy ideologists, but to the knowledge and ruthless application of Nature's stern and rigid laws."

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

--------------------------------------------

"No more than Nature desires the mating of weaker with stronger individuals, even less does she desire the blending of a higher with a lower race, since, if she did, her whole work of higher breeding, over perhaps hundreds of thousands of years, might be ruined with one blow."

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

--------------------------------------------

Spoken like a true evolutionist! The Biblical Creationists state that mankind was created in the first week of Creation. The devout evolutionist Hitler claims that the earth existed for millions of years before man arose from the "ether" (i.e. primordial soup), via natural selection.

Jim Walker at nobeliefs.com is clearly refuted. Therefore, the rest of his opinions become highly suspect, as do Blader's.

 

[npetreley]

Bravo, CS. But don't expect anyone to admit the obvious.

 

[Caffeine Socialism]

Oh, yeah, that would be awful.

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Christian Soldier writes: Blader's primary source for his info, Jim Walker at nobeliefs.com---is putting out blatantly false information. He claims that Hitler was a Biblical Creationist.

Not exactly, oh purveyor of, and clutcher at, straw. Walker says (quoting Hitler):

"('Beings such as He Himself created,' shows that Hitler believed in creationism.)"

Beings = mankind
He Himself = (Christian) God
created = created

That's "creationism" in a nutshell, pal.

So where exactly is Walker "putting out blatantly false information"?

Christian Soldier writes: Walker is easily refuted by Hitler himself:

"At this point someone or other may laugh, but this planet once moved through the ether for millions of years without human beings and it can do so again some day if men forget that they owe their higher existence, not to the ideas of a few crazy ideologists, but to the knowledge and ruthless application of Nature's stern and rigid laws."

Excuse me, Christian Soldier, but have you ever heard of an individual named Hugh Ross?

Christian Soldier continues: The Biblical Creationists state that mankind was created in the first week of Creation. The devout evolutionist Hitler claims that the earth existed for millions of years before man arose ...

So does Hugh Ross, Biblical Creationist. Or is Hugh Ross, according to Christian Soldier, also a "devout evolutionist"?

Christian Soldier: ... from the "ether" (i.e. primordial soup), via natural selection.

Er ... ether = primordial soup? "This planet once moved through the primoridal soup"? lol! Nice try.

So where exactly does Hitler refer either to "primordial soup" or "natural selection," aside from in your fevered imagination?

Christian Soldier: Jim Walker at nobeliefs.com is clearly refuted.

I'm afraid not, unless, as you are suggesting, Hugh Ross is also a "devout evolutionist."

Christian Soldier: Therefore, the rest of his opinions become highly suspect, as do Blader's.

Hardly. First you'll have to demonstrate that Walker is "putting out blatantly false information," rather than baselessly asserting it. Then you'll have to "clearly refute" him, rather than baselessly asserting that you have. Then you'll have to deal with any other information presented on a case by case basis.

Nice try though. [Come to think of it, singularly pathetic try.]

 

[blader]

Originally posted by Christian Soldier
Jim Walker at nobeliefs.com is clearly refuted. Therefore, the rest of his opinions become highly suspect, as do Blader's.[/color][/b] [/B]

Still grasping at straws over the "As a Christian" speech, huh?

First of all, the quotes you gave did NOT show that Hitler was an evolutionist. All it showed that Hitler didn't believe in an young earth. So he's not a YEC. Not all Creationists are of the young earth variety.

Further, even assuming that you're right and Jim Walker's wrong:

Tell me, CS: Why does it matter what some guy named Jim Walker says about Hitler, rightly or wrongly, when every single one of my arguments relied on the words of HITLER HIMSELF?

In other words, when did I ever quote Jim Walker, rather than Hitler himself? My "primary source" is Hitler's own words and Mein Kampf. The nobeliefs page on Mein Kampf, disregarding the first page, is a straight list of quotes from the book, and you can verify this for yourself.

How does the fact that some guy named Jim Walker had a fact wrong about Hitler invalidate Hitler's very own words that can be found published in 1942?

Surely you must not be implying that since Jim Walker thinks Hitler is a Creationist, then that somehow magically invalidates every single other Hitler quote on his page? Especially when you can find these same quotes in other printed sources?

Such desperation does not look well upon you, CS.

 

[blader]

Originally posted by alexgb00

Do you honestly mean to even imply that Hitler was a Christian? Even if you don't really believe this, why advocate such a view?

Yes, I honestly do believe this, actually. Not all Christians are evil, but nor are all Christians good. Just as there are evil atheists, there are evil Christians, such as Hitler. I don't share your belief that Christians can do no wrong.

 

[blader]

Originally posted by Christian Soldier

Spoken like a true evolutionist! The Biblical Creationists state that mankind was created in the first week of Creation. The devout evolutionist Hitler claims that the earth existed for millions of years before man arose from the "ether" (i.e. primordial soup), via natural selection.

Go back and read the quote again. Hitler never said that man arose from the "ether," and "ether does NOT mean "primordial soup." Bzzt.

Here's what he ACTUALLY said:

...but this planet once moved through the ether for millions of years without human beings

Ether is just another word for the vacuum of space, or the theorized medium through which light travels (which we now know to not exist).

Disregarding that stretch of the imagination, I remind you that there are many evolutionists who are Christian, so I could care less whether Hitler was a "devout evolutionist" or not. It's totally beside the point.

 

[Christian Soldier]

In the passage from Mein Kampf below, Hitler expounds on evolutionist principles such as survival of the fittest, adaptation and natural selection. Please note that there is no mention of God, just nature and natural processes. Just what is the "womb of the eternal unknown."? Christians have a clear conception of what happens after death, you go to Heaven or Hell. There is no "eternal unknown" in Christianity.

"Nature herself in times of great poverty or bad climatic conditions, as well as poor harvest, intervenes to restrict the increase of population of certain countries or races; this, to be sure, by a method as wise as it is ruthless. She diminishes, not the power of procreation as such, but the conservation of the procreated, by exposing them to hard trials and deprivations with the result that all those who are less strong and less healthy are forced back into the womb of the eternal unknown. Those whom she permits to survive the inclemency of existence are a thousandfold tested, hardened, and well adapted to procreate in turn, in order that the process of thoroughgoing selection may begin again from the beginning. By thus brutally proceeding against the individual and immediately calling him back to herself as soon as he shows himself unequal to the storm of life, she keeps the race and species strong, in fact, raises them to the highest accomplishments. At the same time the diminution of number strengthens the individual and thus in the last analysis fortifies the species."

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

 

[blader]

Originally posted by Christian Soldier
In the passage from Mein Kampf below, Hitler expounds on evolutionist principles such as survival of the fittest, adaptation and natural selection. Please note that there is no mention of God, just nature and natural processes. Just what is the "womb of the eternal unknown."? Christians have a clear conception of what happens after death, you go to Heaven or Hell. There is no "eternal unknown" in Christianity.

So I see you have decided to ignore my replies. That is fine.

All you have shown once again is that Hitler is an evolutionist, not an atheist. This does not at all refute the veritable cornupocia of quotes where Hitler indicates his Christianity and PROCLAIMS himself to be a Christian.

Here, in your favorite color:
EVOLUTIONIST DOES NOT MEAN NOT CHRISTIAN.

All you have to show as evidence for his lack of Christianity in the above quote is his usage of the phrase "eternal unknown."

"eternal": Is heaven not eternal?

"unknown": And I suppose you have seen heaven for yourself? So you know what heaven looks like? Please do share.

Sorry, that dog doesn't hunt either. I like my sig better.

 

[Christian Soldier]

The following excerpt is from world-renown historian of Nazi Germany, William L. Shirer, in his monumental worldwide best-seller The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Shirer was a foreign correspondent who lived and worked in Germany before and during much of the Nazi era. Italics are mine:

"Yet I think no one who lived in the Third Reich could have failed to be impressed by Nietzsche's influence on it. His books might be full, as Santayana said, of "genial imbecility" and "boyish blasphemies." Yet Nazi scribblers never tired of extolling him. Hitler often visited the Nietzsche museum in Weimar and publicized his veneration for the philosopher by posing for photographs of himself staring in rapture at the bust of the great man.

There was some ground for this appropriation of Nietzsche as one of the originators of the Nazi Weltanschauung. Had not the philosopher thundered against democracy and parliaments, preached the will to power, praised war and proclaimed the coming of the master race and the superman--and in the most telling aphorisms? A Nazi could proudly quote him on almost every conceivable subject, and did. On Christianity: "the one great curse, the one enormous and innermost perversion... I call it the one immortal blemish of mankind.... This Christianity is no more than the typical teaching of the Socialists." On the State, power, and the jungle world of man: "Society has never regarded virtue as anything other than as a means to strength, power, and order. The State [is] unmorality organized... the will to war, to conquest and revenge... Society is not entitled to exist for its own sake but only as a substructure and scaffolding by means of which a select race of beings may elevate themselves to their higher duties... There is no such thing as the right to live, the right to work, or the right to be happy: in this respect man is no different from the meanest worm." (Women, whom Nietzsche never had, he consigned to a distinctly inferior status, as did the Nazis, who decreed that their place was in the kitchen and their chief role in life to beget children for German warriors. Nietzsche put the idea this way: "Man shall be trained for war and woman for the procreation of the warrior. All else is folly." He went further. In Thus Spake Zarathustra he exclaims: "Thou goest to woman? Do not forget thy whip!"...) And he exalted the superman as the beast of prey, "the magnificent blond brute, avidly rampant for spoil and victory."

And war? Here Nietzsche took the view of most of the other nineteenth-century German thinkers. In the thundering Old Testament language in which Thus Spake Zarathustra is written, the philosopher cries out: "Ye shall love peace as a means to new war, and the short peace more than the long. You I advise not to work, but to fight. You I advise not to peace but to victory.... Ye say it is the good cause which halloweth even war? I say unto you: it is the good war which halloweth every cause. War and courage have done more great things than charity."

Finally there was Nietzsche's prophecy of the coming elite who would rule the world and from whom the superman would spring. In The Will to Power he exclaims: "A daring and ruler race is building itself up.... The aim should be to prepare a transvaluation of values for a particularly strong kind of man, most highly gifted in intellect and will. This man and the elite around him will become the 'lords of the earth'."

Such rantings from one of Germany's most original minds must have struck a responsive chord in Hitler's littered mind. At any rate he appropriated them for his own--not only the thoughts but the philosopher's penchant for grotesque exaggeration, and often his very words. "Lords of the Earth" is a familiar expression in Mein Kampf. That in the end Hitler considered himself the superman of Nietzsche's prophecy cannot be doubted....

In Hitler's utterances there runs the theme that the supreme leader is above the morals of ordinary men. Hegel and Nietzsche thought so too.... Nietzsche, with his grotesque exaggeration, goes much further:

'The strong men, the masters, regain the pure conscience of a beast of prey; monsters filled with joy, they can return from a fearful succession of murder, arson, rape, and torture with the same joy in their hearts, the same contentment in their souls as if they had indulged in some student's rag.... When a man is capable of commanding, when he is by nature a "Master," when he is violent in act and gesture, of what importance are treaties to him?... To judge morality properly, it must be replaced by two concepts borrowed from zoology: the taming of a beast and the breeding of a specific species.'"

William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

Whatever Hitler did, Christians did first:

At his birth (1420, Torquemada, Castile, Spain) Tomás already had something to hide: his grandmother was a converso; a converted Jew; a New Christian.
Spain had more converted Jews than any other country; some had converted by choice, many more by force, but they were all regarded with suspicion and mistrust by the Old Christians. Some, called Marranos, were only nominally converted, and continued their Jewish customs in secret.

The result was the Spanish cult of sangre limpia, "pure blood", that is, pure white Christian blood. Actually, since Spain had the largest Jewish population in medieval Europe and conversion and intermarriage were common, hardly anyone had sangre limpia, but many claimed to, and it was a constant preoccupation of the nobility. Torquemada's life work was an attempts to achieve sangre limpia for Spain.

By 1479, when Spain was unified under Ferdinand and Isabella, Torquemada was a Dominican priest and Isabella's confessor. Four years later he had established himself as the head of the Spanish Inquisition.

The purpose of the Inquisition was to root out heresy, and for Torquemada this meant destroying the Marranos. The Inquisition published a set of guidelines so that Catholics could inform on their Marrano neighbors:


If you see that your neighbors are wearing clean and fancy clothes
on Saturdays, they are Jews.
If they clean their houses on Fridays and light candles earlier than
usual on that night, they are Jews.
If they eat unleavened bread and begin their meal with celery and
lettuce during Holy Week, they are Jews.
If they say prayers facing a wall, bowing back and forth,
they are Jews.

The mildest penalty imposed on Marranos began with the forfeiture of their property, which proved to be a convenient fund-raising technique for the war against the Moors. This was followed by the public humiliation of being paraded through the streets wearing the sambenito, a sulfur-yellow shirt emblazoned with crosses that came only to the waist, leaving the lower body uncovered. They were then flogged at the church door. This was the punishment suffered by Juan Sánchez de Cepeda, the grandfather of Teresa de Avila.

The scale of punishments continued up to burning at the stake, which was performed as a public spectacle called an auto-da-fé ("act of faith"). If the condemned recanted and kissed the cross, they were mercifully garroted before the fire was set. If they recanted only, they were burned with a quick-burning seasoned wood. If not, they were burned with slow-burning green wood.

In 1490 Torquemada staged a famous show-trial, the LaGuardia trial. This involved eight Jews and conversos, who were accused of having crucified a Christian child. No victim was ever identified and no body was ever found; nevertheless all eight were convicted, on the strength of their confessions which were obtained through torture. They were burned at the stake.

Rumours about Jews committing ritual murder of Christian children have circulated around Europe for centuries and are known collectively as "the blood libel." While there is no evidence to support the blood libel, its opposite, the ritual murder of Jews by Christians, is well known. The Spanish Inquisition alone committed the ritual murder of about thirty thousand Jews.

Torquemada used the LaGuardia trial to argue that the Jews were a danger to Spain. His intention was to convince Ferdinand and Isabella to order their expulsion. Hearing of this, two influential Jews raised thirty thousand ducats and offered it to Ferdinand and Isabella, saying they could give them even more if they would allow the Jews to remain. Ferdinand and Isabella, always hard up for cash, wavered at this; but Torquemada said, "Judas sold his Master for thirty ducats. You would sell Him for thirty thousand ... Take Him and sell Him, but do not let it be said that I have had any share in this transaction."

On March 31st, 1492, Ferdinand and Isabella issued their Edict of Expulsion. "[We] have decided to command all of the aforesaid Jews, men and women, to leave our kingdoms and never to return to them." The Jews were given until July 1st to leave the kingdom; any found within its borders after that date would be killed. Some fled to Portugal or North Africa, where they faced more persecution; some took ship with a foolhardy explorer named Christopher Columbus; some remained in Spain as "Secret Jews", and their descendants are still Secret Jews today.

Having accomplished the expulsion of the Jews, Torquemada retired to the monastery of St. Thomas in Avila, which he had designed himself. In his last years he was convinced that he would be poisoned, and kept a unicorn's horn by his plate as an antidote. He was not poisoned, however, but died a natural death in 1498.

(from http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/~gbrandal/Illum_html/Torquemada.html)

 

[Christian Soldier]

"All you have to show as evidence for his lack of Christianity in the above quote is his usage of the phrase "eternal unknown.""

No, I provided a long documented quote from Mein Kampf in 1925, where Hitler clearly calls for the destruction of Christianity. Hitler's authorship of Mein Kampf is not questioned by any credible historian. You provided a quote from an earlier date, the authorship of which is in grave question. The speech you quote does not exist in the immense archive of Hitler's personal writings and recorded speeches. Your quote cannot be positively authenticated.

If one takes a close look at the Mein Kampf quotes from your source Jim Walker, most of them are only about a couple lines each in length. It's obvious that most are taken out of context. Your fanatical bigotry toward Christianity causes you to interpret them differently than Hitler intended.

Another obvious fact you overlooked--my quote comes at a later date. Even if your quote were authentic, many famous figures in history have rejected their own Christian faith and belief in God---it's called apostasy.

Charles Darwin was a devout Christian as a young man, he earned a degree in Christian theology and planned to become a minister. But he later rejected his faith.

Are you attempting to suggest that once one claims to be a Christian, he must always be one? Darwin would seriously disagree with you, as would virtually all darwinian evolutionists who know full well that Darwin was no Christian in his later life.

""eternal": Is heaven not eternal?

"unknown": And I suppose you have seen heaven for yourself? So you know what heaven looks like? Please do share."

Your bigotry is causing you to rationalize again. Go back and carefully re-read the quotation I provided. Hitler clearly states that NATURE forces the "less strong"---"back into the womb of the eternal unknown."

God sends you to Heaven or Hell, "Nature" can't send you anywhere. Please also note the word "back". A Christian can't go "back" to heaven or hell, because he's never been there until he dies. So it is quite obvious to anyone who is intellectually honest, that Hitler is not referring to Heaven, Hell or God.

 

[notto]

"WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation."

Maybe Hitler was a deist, much like the writers of the above?

The founding fathers personify Nature throught the use of the term Natures God and Hitler does it by the use of the feminine pronoun.

What do you all think?

 

[Bender]

Ah, I was wondering when Nietzsche would be brought into this.

Funny, if he was an atheist putting on a front of being a Christian wouldn't it be kinda dumb to go and get photos taken with an atheist philosopher?

Anyway, Hitler lists his biggest influence as Martin Luther in Table Talk and Mein Kampf. Let's have a look a what Luther has to say about what should be done with Jews if they don't convert: 

First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly_and I myself was unaware of it_will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.

Sounds familiar, no?  

In Deuteronomy 13:12 Moses writes that any city that is given to idolatry shall be totally destroyed by fire, and nothing of it shall be preserved. If he were alive today, he would be the first to set fire to the synagogues and houses of the Jews. For in Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32 he commanded very explicitly that nothing is to be added to or subtracted from his law. And Samuel says in I Samuel 15:23 that disobedience to God is idolatry. Now the Jews' doctrine at present is nothing but the additions of the rabbis and the idolatry of disobedience, so that Moses has become entirely unknown among them (as we said before), just as the Bible became unknown under the papacy in our day. So also, for Moses' sake, their schools cannot be tolerated; they defame him just as much as they do us. It is not necessary that they have their own free churches for such idolatry.

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them the fact that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.

Hmm, this seems familiar as well. 

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17:10) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16:18, "You are Peter," etc., inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.

Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let them stay at home. I have heard it said that a rich Jew is now traveling across the country with twelve horses his ambition is to become a Kokhba devouring princes, lords, lands, and people with his usury, so that the great lords view it with jealous eyes. If you great lords and princes will not forbid such usurers the highway legally, some day a troop may gather against them, having learned from this booklet the true nature of the Jews and how one should deal with them and not protect their activities. For you, too, must not and cannot protect them unless you wish to become participants in an their abominations in the sight of God. Consider carefully what good could come from this, and prevent it.

Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us an they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.

Well, I don't think Hitler was interested in converting them.

Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen. 3 [:19]). For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting., and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants. -Martin Luther "On the Jews and their Lies"

I wonder if Luther and Hitler were related?

"We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]"
"On the Jews and Their Lies" -Martin Luther

"Whoever would like to cherish such adders and puny devils -- who are the worst enemies of Christ and us all all -- to befriend them and to do them honour simply in order to be cheated, plundered, robbed, disgraced, and forced to howl and curse and suffer every kind of evil, to him I would commend the Jews. And if this is not enough, let him tell the Jews to use his mouth as a privy, or else crawl into the Jew's hind parts, and there worship the holy thing, so as afterwards to be able to boast of having been merciful, and of having helped the Devil and his progeny to blaspheme our dear Lord."

-Martin Luther
"Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor" by Peter F. Weiner (1985, Gustav Broukal Press)

"If I had to baptise a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words 'I baptise thee in the name of Abraham'."
-Martin Luther
"Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor" by Peter F. Weiner (1985, Gustav Broukal Press)

 

 

 

[chickenman]

none of this has anything to do with science, which might explain why christian soldier is so vocal in this particular thread.

 

[HazyRigby]

Originally posted by Christian Soldier
How do you know Hitler really made that 1922 speech you claim he did? Does a voice recording exist of it? Fake Hitler speeches and quotes come a dime a dozen. Give us PROOF!

My quote is from 1925, which is LATER. I can prove Hitler said it, because it's in Mein Kampf. You can't prove SQUAT.

I'm sorry to go off-topic, but I find it extremely funny that a Christian wrote this. He refuses to believe something (and demands the proof) from 1922, but he accepts without question the "quotes" given to us supposedly from a man who lived 2000 years ago.

Unbelieveable.

Yet, he would write this off as blasphemy or idiocy: "How do you know Christ made that 32 A.D. speech you claim he did? Does a voice recording exist of it? Fake Christ speeches and quotes come a dime a dozen (hello, apocrypha). Give us PROOF!"

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Next thing you know, Martin Luther won't have been a Christian either.