Daniels 70-Weeks Timeline

[Timtofly]

THe point is that Daniel's 70 weeks doesn't have anything to do with our Lord's return. It's about the end of Temple Judaism.

No, it is the end of Adam's sin. Israel did not disobey God allowing sin into the world. Have you not read any of Paul's writings? Paul was taught the Law more than any other Apostle. Paul never mentions 70AD once. Paul mentions the Second Coming a few times.

 

[Jipsah]

I don’t know where the US fits in end times, but I think Donald was the ‘last trump.’

We Yanks tend to think everthing is about us, so if we're good we're the best, if we're bad we're the worst, and the rest of the world can just wait in the car.

 

[Jipsah]

It's interesting that you mention Trump.
Trump is derived from the word trumpet, which is defined as a 'little horn'. However, Trump Sr is the father of lies, who I believe has sired the 'little horn' from Daniel 8.

 

[Jipsah]

[QUOTE="Timtofly, post: 76835905, member: 429026" Paul never mentions 70AD once. [/QUOTE] Maybe because he was long dead by then?

 

[DavidPT]

Maybe because he was long dead by then?

Paul also didn't mention one single time that the entire 70 weeks were entirely fulfilled. Is it because he was already long dead before some of you insist the 70 weeks were entirely fulfilled? Probably not, right? So why didn't he, or any NT author for that matter, make mention that the 70 weeks have been entirely fulfilled? There wouldn't be any debate involving this if any NT author simply had said the entire 70 weeks have already come and gone.


Obviously, since the 70 weeks span 490 years, the majority of those 490 years were already fulfilled during the time of Paul. But that's not the same as the entire 490 years being fulfilled, because you would think an NT author would have at least mentioned that the entire 70 weeks were fulfilled if it was actually the case at the time.

 

[Timtofly]

Maybe because he was long dead by then?

Jesus left earth 40 years before that event, yet you all claim He was talking about it.

What does not being around at the time have to do with anything?

Revelation was written 25 years after 70AD, and it does not mention 70AD either. Only Josephus wrote about 70AD, or you all would have nothing to talk about.

Jesus said Herod’s complex would be torn down. That was the extent of the biblical narrative. Yet you all rely on Josephus for your theology.

If the 70 weeks were finished in the first century, you would have thought a few words in the NT would cover it? Nope, not a single NT writer declared the 70th week finished.

Not even Josephus, your chief theologian of the time, did not state the 70 weeks were finished. Of course he rejected Jesus was the Messiah, and was still waiting for the 70th Week to even start. Josephus was very much an OT theologian, even if you attempt to refute that. You may not accept his theology, but you seem to rely on his historical writings, for your theology. He saw his own people bring about the destruction of Daniel 9:26. Do you think Josephus thought it would be rebuilt in time for the Messiah to show up finally, or did they all give up on Daniel and declare him a false prophet? Obviously the 490 years were definitely over by 70AD.

So no one thought 70AD was anything, not even the Jews themselves, as they never accepted the Messiah arrived before 70AD. It was just another nation wiping them off the face of the earth, once again.

 

[Deafsilence]

The 70 weeks prophecy is 10 Jubilees. This means the last year of the 70 Weeks or 490 years is a Jubilee year. And that Jubilee year was 31-32 AD. Jesus was crucified on March 26, 31 AD (day started on March 25th). He was crucified in a Sabbatical year.

 

[Timtofly]

The 70 weeks prophecy is 10 Jubilees. This means the last year of the 70 Weeks or 490 years is a Jubilee year. And that Jubilee year was 31-32 AD. Jesus was crucified on March 26, 31 AD (day started on March 25th). He was crucified in a Sabbatical year.

There was already a break between the 7th and 8th set of 7s. You have to figure something else in there to get your jubilees "back on track."

Jesus was on the Cross on a Wednesday, the 14th of Nisan, 30AD.

You have the Cross on a Monday.

Why do you attempt to place Jesus into the Jubilees on exact dates? Jesus lived for only about 33 years in a Jubilee. He was not even on earth for 49 years. The point of trying to line up the Cross on an exact Jubilee is futile. That is like saying Babylon could only attack Jerusalem on only one certain day in history so the 70 years would fall at the right time for a decree to be made at an exact time. Yet there was a gap between the 49th and 50th year. That already messes up the exactness. Unless the gap was a full Jubilee. But if you allow for that gap, why try to place the last week of 7 years as exact?

 

[Christian Gedge]

Paul also didn't mention one single time that the entire 70 weeks were entirely fulfilled. Is it because he was already long dead before some of you insist the 70 weeks were entirely fulfilled? Probably not, right? So why didn't he, or any NT author for that matter, make mention that the 70 weeks have been entirely fulfilled?

@DavidPT and @Chris Thomas Shepherd
Well, Saints Paul, Matthew, Luke, John, Peter and John the Baptist all refer to the start of Daniel’s seventieth week. As for a reference to the entirety of the seventy weeks, we can point to how Jesus alludes to the Seventy Weeks in cryptic language.

The verse I am thinking of is when Peter asked Jesus how often should he forgive, then suggested what he thought was generous "Up to seven times," he posits.

"Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven." (Matthew 18:21-22)​

Jesus answer was cryptic, but I think he was referring to the long era of forgiveness 490 years that God was giving his people Israel until he introduced his New Covenant. In other words, if it was good enough for God to wait seventy times seven, it is good enough for us to forgive seventy times seven too.

Surely Jesus had Daniel in mind when he made that statement.

 

[wonderkins]

Jesus left earth 40 years before that event, yet you all claim He was talking about it.

What does not being around at the time have to do with anything?

Revelation was written 25 years after 70AD, and it does not mention 70AD either. Only Josephus wrote about 70AD, or you all would have nothing to talk about.

Jesus said Herod’s complex would be torn down. That was the extent of the biblical narrative. Yet you all rely on Josephus for your theology.

If the 70 weeks were finished in the first century, you would have thought a few words in the NT would cover it? Nope, not a single NT writer declared the 70th week finished.

Not even Josephus, your chief theologian of the time, did not state the 70 weeks were finished. Of course he rejected Jesus was the Messiah, and was still waiting for the 70th Week to even start. Josephus was very much an OT theologian, even if you attempt to refute that. You may not accept his theology, but you seem to rely on his historical writings, for your theology. He saw his own people bring about the destruction of Daniel 9:26. Do you think Josephus thought it would be rebuilt in time for the Messiah to show up finally, or did they all give up on Daniel and declare him a false prophet? Obviously the 490 years were definitely over by 70AD.

So no one thought 70AD was anything, not even the Jews themselves, as they never accepted the Messiah arrived before 70AD. It was just another nation wiping them off the face of the earth, once again.

Where does the Bible support the 2000 years you put between weeks 69 and 70?

Also, Daniel 9:24 says “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.


The part about making atonement for iniquity should be a time marker. Jesus did that. And that part is at the end of the 70 weeks.

 

[Douggg]

The fundamental error of CG's chart is...

- that the covenant to be confirmed for 7 years is the new covenant in Christ.

______________________________________________________

The covenant to be confirmed for 7 years is the Mt. Sinai covenant. That was the covenant that Daniel was praying over that his people broke, resulting in the Babylonian captivity.

The for 7 years is in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. The confirmation of the Mt Sinai covenant is the reading of the law to the nation of Israel on the feast of tabernacles from the place of God's choosing - currently held by the Jews to be the temple mount.

 

[Jipsah]

The part about making atonement for iniquity should be a time marker. Jesus did that. And that part is at the end of the 70 weeks.

Yep. It's also worth noting that sacrifice and oblation are to cease in the 70th week, and they did. Futurists say that didn't count because...reasons.

 

[Christian Gedge]

The fundamental error of CG's chart is...

- that the covenant to be confirmed for 7 years is the new covenant in Christ.

There are six things Daniel said had to be confirmed. The seventy weeks had to:

1. finish the transgression,
2. make an end of sins,
3. make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. seal up vision and prophecy,
6. anoint the Most Holy.​

The first four clauses were achieved in the middle of the 70th week when the curtain of the temple was torn down.

The final two objectives were achieved following the Cross and up to the conclusion
of the 70th week. To ‘seal up vision and prophecy’ is speaking of the authentication and completion of Messiah’s ministry.

To 'anoint the most holy,' (the Church) began at Pentecost, and completed when the Gentiles were grafted in. (AD 33-34) Thus, the ‘most holy’ is indeed a temple, though not a physical building. It is the anointed manifestation of Christ together with His Church.

 

[Timtofly]

Where does the Bible support the 2000 years you put between weeks 69 and 70?

Also, Daniel 9:24 says “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.


The part about making atonement for iniquity should be a time marker. Jesus did that. And that part is at the end of the 70 weeks.

I never said there is supposed to be a 2,000 year period between the 69th and 70th week.

I was pointing out that Jesus is the 70th week. 3.5 years as Messiah that ended at the death, burial, and Resurrection. So half the week is already finished. When Jesus is sitting as King on the throne in Jerusalem, then the last half will be finished. It has been 1992 years since the Cross.

Where in Scripture or history has it been recorded that Jesus as King has sat on His glorious throne (Matthew 25:31)?

3.5 years is not a full week. Where in Scripture does 3.5 = 7? The 70th week can only be completed by Jesus the King in person.

 

[Timtofly]

There are six things Daniel said had to be confirmed. The seventy weeks had to:

1. finish the transgression,
2. make an end of sins,
3. make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. seal up vision and prophecy,
6. anoint the Most Holy.​

The first four clauses were achieved in the middle of the 70th week when the curtain of the temple was torn down.

The final two objectives were achieved following the Cross and up to the conclusion
of the 70th week. To ‘seal up vision and prophecy’ is speaking of the authentication and
completion of Messiah’s ministry.

To 'anoint the most holy,' (the Church) began at Pentecost, and completed when the Gentiles were grafted in. (AD 33-34) Thus, the ‘most holy’ is indeed a temple, though not a physical building. It is the anointed manifestation of Christ together with His Church.

The church is not complete and sealed up.

If that is the case, no one on earth is currently part of the church, nor has been since 34AD.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Messianic prophecy was ‘sealed up’ and fulfilled in the ministry of Jesus and of his disciples. The process took seven years. At the end of the 70th week the anointing of the new Covenant church was complete.

 

[wonderkins]

I never said there is supposed to be a 2,000 year period between the 69th and 70th week.

I was pointing out that Jesus is the 70th week. 3.5 years as Messiah that ended at the death, burial, and Resurrection. So half the week is already finished. When Jesus is sitting as King on the throne in Jerusalem, then the last half will be finished. It has been 1992 years since the Cross.

Where in Scripture or history has it been recorded that Jesus as King has sat on His glorious throne (Matthew 25:31)?

3.5 years is not a full week. Where in Scripture does 3.5 = 7? The 70th week can only be completed by Jesus the King in person.

Maybe I shouldn't have said you put the 2000 years in there. But isn't that the implication? That 2000 years later and the final week still hasn't happened?

Which part of Daniel 9:24-27 says Jesus is at 3.5 years?

The Bible multiple times says Jesus is seated at the right hand of God. Meaning he is equal and is seated on the throne as king. It's not as if Jesus is sitting on a stool or something next to God waiting to be given the throne.

Two examples of Jesus's kingship:

Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you⁠—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience⁠—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
— 1 Peter 3:21-22

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
— Matthew 28:18

If that isn't a king, I don't know what is.

 

[Douggg]

There are six things Daniel said had to be confirmed. The seventy weeks had to:

1. finish the transgression,
2. make an end of sins,
3. make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. seal up vision and prophecy,
6. anoint the Most Holy.​

The first four clauses were achieved in the middle of the 70th week when the curtain of the temple was torn down.

The final two objectives were achieved following the Cross and up to the conclusion
of the 70th week. To ‘seal up vision and prophecy’ is speaking of the authentication and completion of Messiah’s ministry.

To 'anoint the most holy,' (the Church) began at Pentecost, and completed when the Gentiles were grafted in. (AD 33-34) Thus, the ‘most holy’ is indeed a temple, though not a physical building. It is the anointed manifestation of Christ together with His Church.

Christian Gedge, you not getting it. The confirming the covenant for seven years (one week) is not talking about the new covenant in Christ.

The covenant is not the new covenant in Christ. The covenant is the one that Daniel had been confessing that his people transgressed and resulted in their being sent off into the Babylonian captivity.

The for seven years to confirm the Mt Sinai covenant is a perpetual forever cycle that Moses required of all future leaders of Israel while they are in the land, Deuteronomy 31:9-13. It confirms that, by the Mt Sinai covenant, that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as their forever. That's what was the whole point of Moses making the requirement. And that promise God made to the children of Israel that the land of Israel would be theirs still stands today.

And there they are right before your eyes, a nation in the land again, since 1948. Contested by the Muslims that Israel has no right to the land.

 

[Douggg]

To ‘seal up vision and prophecy’ is speaking of the authentication and completion of Messiah’s ministry.

CG, you have that wrong. The vision to be sealed up is the same vision first spoke of in Daniel 9:21, the vision which Daniel had first encountered Gabriel. The vision about the time of the end little horn person and his stopping of the daily sacrifice.

 

[Deafsilence]

There are six things Daniel said had to be confirmed. The seventy weeks had to:

1. finish the transgression,
2. make an end of sins,
3. make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. seal up vision and prophecy,
6. anoint the Most Holy.​

The first four clauses were achieved in the middle of the 70th week when the curtain of the temple was torn down.

The final two objectives were achieved following the Cross and up to the conclusion
of the 70th week. To ‘seal up vision and prophecy’ is speaking of the authentication and completion of Messiah’s ministry.

To 'anoint the most holy,' (the Church) began at Pentecost, and completed when the Gentiles were grafted in. (AD 33-34) Thus, the ‘most holy’ is indeed a temple, though not a physical building. It is the anointed manifestation of Christ together with His Church.

All of the objectives were achieved in the 70 weeks. Jesus said 'it is Finished'.