Daniels 70-Weeks Timeline

[RandyPNW]

Give me one verse that states Artaxerxes declared the building of Jerusalem or the wall. All decrees were centered around the Temple. The very first decree of Cyrus allowed 42,360 Jews to return and rebuild their cities.

"The whole congregation together was forty and two thousand three hundred and threescore,
So the priests, and the Levites, and some of the people, and the singers, and the porters, and the Nethinims, dwelt in their cities, and all Israel in their cities."

How could they live in a city that was not rebuilt?

Both Ezra and Nehemiah talk about the Temple as the central theme of rebuilding. Yes Nehemiah built up the wall. All on his own in secret. He let the chips fall as they may as a result. Nehemiah 2:8

"And a letter unto Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams for the gates of the palace which appertained to the house, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall enter into. And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me."

This was not a decree. It was permission for timber to build the palace and gates. Ezra 7:11-16

"Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the Lord, and of his statutes to Israel. Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time. I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee. Forasmuch as thou art sent of the king, and of his seven counsellors, to enquire concerning Judah and Jerusalem, according to the law of thy God which is in thine hand; And to carry the silver and gold, which the king and his counsellors have freely offered unto the God of Israel, whose habitation is in Jerusalem, And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:"

Still not about Jerusalem and the walls thereof. Still only about the Temple.

Cyrus gave the original decree to restore all cities and to live in them. The walls were neglected, so Nehemiah built them at night.

I really don't need to provide for you a verse. You've provided a number of them yourself! The problem is, you're separating the building of the temple from the building of Jerusalem. Jerusalem was great precisely because it was both the capital city and the place where God said He would make His name dwell there.

So building the temple required the building of Jerusalem, because Jerusalem is where the temple was located. But the temple was built *before* Jerusalem was built up sufficiently to defend the temple. That's why Nehemiah requested from the king the right to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem, to make it a viable city, able to protect the temple.

Obviously, people lived in communities, or "cities," during this reconstruction project. But living in temporary quarters is not like living in a fully refurbished nation, replete with its capital city surrounded by walls, with the temple fully functioning in its midst.

No, their living in semi-protected cities was not the restoration of Jerusalem, nor the rebuilding of Jerusalem with defensible boundaries. By the time of Artaxerxes, the temple had been built, but it still had not been fully functioning up to par.

So it had to be Artaxerxes, who completed the project begun by Cyrus, determining by decree to allow the finishing touches to this restoration project. Jerusalem's walls had not yet been built by that time. And the temple worship was still being honed.

Ezra 7.25 And you, Ezra, in accordance with the wisdom of your God, which you possess, appoint magistrates and judges to administer justice to all the people of Trans-Euphrates—all who know the laws of your God. And you are to teach any who do not know them. 26 Whoever does not obey the law of your God and the law of the king must surely be punished by death, banishment, confiscation of property, or imprisonment.

Magistrates are city officials, or judges, and Artaxerxes allowed city government to function in Jerusalem in protection of the temple worship. This was the restoration of Jerusalem and its government in order to preserve what made Jerusalem important, namely the center of Jewish government and the worship of their God.

 

[jeffweedaman]

There is an undefined amount of time gap between the messiah cutoff and the prince who shall come confirming the covenant with many for the 70th week.

The prince to come has nothing whatsoever to do with the decree of the 70 weeks.

24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city,
to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sin,
to make atonement for iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy
and to anoint the most holy place.

This is Messiahs accomplished work alone that he completed before he ascended to the Father.

 

[Douggg]

The prince to come has nothing whatsoever to do with the decree of the 70 weeks.

24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city,
to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sin,
to make atonement for iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy
and to anoint the most holy place.

This is Messiahs accomplished work alone that he completed before he ascended to the Father.

Jeff, what translation are you using? Please do a copy and paste of verses 21-24.

 

[jeffweedaman]

Jeff, what translation are you using? Please do a copy and paste of verses 21-24.

I will give you many translations of v 24.
do the rest yourself.

KJ21
“Seventy weeks are determined concerning thy people and concerning thy holy city to finish the transgression and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.
ASV
Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.
AMP
“Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] have been decreed for your people and for your holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make atonement (reconciliation) for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness (right-standing with God), to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
AMPC
Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] are decreed upon your people and upon your holy city [Jerusalem], to finish and put an end to transgression, to seal up and make full the measure of sin, to purge away and make expiation and reconciliation for sin, to bring in everlasting righteousness (permanent moral and spiritual rectitude in every area and relation) to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet, and to anoint a Holy of Holies.
BRG
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
CSB
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city— to bring the rebellion to an end, to put a stop to sin, to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy place.
CEB
Seventy weeks are appointed for your people and for your holy city to complete the rebellion, to end sins, to cover over wrongdoing, to bring eternal righteousness, to seal up prophetic vision, and to anoint the most holy place.
CJB
“Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and for your holy city for putting an end to the transgression, for making an end of sin, for forgiving iniquity, for bringing in everlasting justice, for setting the seal on vision and prophet, and for anointing the Especially Holy Place.
CEV
God has decided that for 70 weeks, your people and your holy city must suffer as the price of their sins. Then evil will disappear, and justice will rule forever; the visions and words of the prophets will come true, and a most holy place will be dedicated.
DARBY
Seventy weeks are apportioned out upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to close the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make expiation for iniquity, and to bring in the righteousness of the ages, and to seal the vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies.
DRA
Seventy weeks are shortened upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, that transgression may be finished, and sin may have an end, and iniquity may be abolished; and everlasting justice may be brought; and vision and prophecy may be fulfilled; and the saint of saints may be anointed.
ERV
“God has allowed 70 weeks for your people and your holy city, Daniel. The 70 weeks are ordered for these reasons: to stop doing bad things, to stop sinning, to make people pure, to bring the goodness that continues forever, to put a seal on visions and prophets, and to dedicate a very holy place.
EHV
Seventy sevens are determined concerning your people and your holy city: to end rebellion, to finish sin, and to atone for guilt, to bring everlasting righteousness, to seal up prophetic vision, and to anoint a most holy one.
ESV
“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
ESVUK
“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
EXB
“·God has ordered four hundred ninety years [L Seventy sevens/weeks are given] for your people and your holy city [C for the following reasons]: to ·stop [finish] ·people from turning against God [transgression]; to put an end to sin; to ·take away [atone for] ·evil [iniquity]; to bring in ·goodness that continues forever [everlasting righteousness]; to ·bring about [seal] the vision and prophecy; and to ·appoint [anoint] a most holy place.
GNV
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thine holy city, to finish the wickedness, and to seal up the sins, and to reconcile the iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
GW
“Seventy sets of seven time periods have been assigned for your people and your holy city. These time periods will serve to bring an end to rebellion, to stop sin, to forgive wrongs, to usher in everlasting righteousness, to put a seal on a prophet’s vision, and to anoint the Most Holy One.
GNT
“Seven times seventy years is the length of time God has set for freeing your people and your holy city from sin and evil. Sin will be forgiven and eternal justice established, so that the vision and the prophecy will come true, and the holy Temple will be rededicated.
HCSB
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city— to bring the rebellion to an end, to put a stop to sin, to wipe away iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy place.
ICB
“God has ordered 490 years for your people and your holy city. These years are ordered for these reasons: to stop people from turning against God; to put an end to sin; to take away evil; to bring in goodness that continues forever; to make the vision and prophecy come true; and to appoint a most holy place.
ISV
Seventy weeks have been decreed concerning your people and your holy city: to restrain transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for lawlessness, to establish everlasting righteousness, to conclude vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
JUB
Seventy weeks are determined {Heb. Cut} upon thy people and upon thy holy city to finish the prevarication and to conclude the sin and to make reconciliation for iniquity and to bring in everlasting righteousness and seal the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the holy of holies.
KJV
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
AKJV
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
LEB
“Seventy weeks is decreed for your people and for your holy city, to put an end to the transgression and to seal up sin and to make atonement for guilt and to bring in everlasting righteousness and to seal vision and prophet and to anoint the most holy place.
TLB
“The Lord has commanded 490 years of further punishment upon Jerusalem and your people. Then at last they will learn to stay away from sin, and their guilt will be cleansed; then the kingdom of everlasting righteousness will begin, and the Most Holy Place in the Temple will be rededicated, as the prophets have declared.



Nothing about a prince who is to come in order to fulfill the decree.

 

[Douggg]

Nothing about a prince who is to come in order to fulfill the decree.

Jeff, I ask for the one translation you used. And I asked for verses 21-24.

The reason for verse 21-24 is that the vision referred to in those verses are about the prince who shall come. The vision refers back to the time of the end vision of the little horn - when Daniel first encountered Gabriel in Daniel 8.

The 70 weeks must seal up that vision.

From the kjv:

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Timtofly]

After 62 weeks + 4 days is also not specifically stated in the text. Glad we have established this.

Well half a week is 3.5 years not 4 days. So there is that. Jesus as King will finish that 3.5 year, last half as King. That is why the Second Coming is important. And, no, I don't go around pinning the preterist label on those who put more emphasis on 70AD than the Second Coming. Clearly the Second Coming, Tribulation, and AoD is a package deal. You all just have a better 3.5 year explanation than Jesus being on the earth at the Second Coming. I get it, you have to, if you think the earth is burned to a crisp. I guess the first century is better than any place else. Except no one recorded that Jesus was King on His glorious throne as heir to David's crown in the first century as the last half of the 70th week. Something clearly pointed out in Matthew 25:31.

 

[jeffweedaman]

Jeff, I ask for the one translation you used. And I asked for verses 21-24.

The reason for verse 21-24 is that the vision referred to in those verses are about the prince who shall come. The vision refers back to the time of the end vision of the little horn - when Daniel first encountered Gabriel in Daniel 8.

The 70 weeks must seal up that vision.

From the kjv:

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Believe what you will, but the cross work is clearly in view .

 

[Douggg]

Believe what you will, but the cross work is clearly in view .

I don't understand what you mean, but the time of the end vision of the little horn person (the prince who shall come) is still future, near future, and the 70th week.

No one on this forum is denying that the messiah cutoff is Jesus. The 70 weeks end when Jesus returns.

_____________________________________________

I see that you are in Australia. From my observance, I think the Anglican church has had a profound influence on posters from Australia and New Zealand.

 

[Timtofly]

I really don't need to provide for you a verse. You've provided a number of them yourself! The problem is, you're separating the building of the temple from the building of Jerusalem. Jerusalem was great precisely because it was both the capital city and the place where God said He would make His name dwell there.

So building the temple required the building of Jerusalem, because Jerusalem is where the temple was located. But the temple was built *before* Jerusalem was built up sufficiently to defend the temple. That's why Nehemiah requested from the king the right to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem, to make it a viable city, able to protect the temple.

Obviously, people lived in communities, or "cities," during this reconstruction project. But living in temporary quarters is not like living in a fully refurbished nation, replete with its capital city surrounded by walls, with the temple fully functioning in its midst.

No, their living in semi-protected cities was not the restoration of Jerusalem, nor the rebuilding of Jerusalem with defensible boundaries. By the time of Artaxerxes, the temple had been built, but it still had not been fully functioning up to par.

So it had to be Artaxerxes, who completed the project begun by Cyrus, determining by decree to allow the finishing touches to this restoration project. Jerusalem's walls had not yet been built by that time. And the temple worship was still being honed.

Ezra 7.25 And you, Ezra, in accordance with the wisdom of your God, which you possess, appoint magistrates and judges to administer justice to all the people of Trans-Euphrates—all who know the laws of your God. And you are to teach any who do not know them. 26 Whoever does not obey the law of your God and the law of the king must surely be punished by death, banishment, confiscation of property, or imprisonment.

Magistrates are city officials, or judges, and Artaxerxes allowed city government to function in Jerusalem in protection of the temple worship. This was the restoration of Jerusalem and its government in order to preserve what made Jerusalem important, namely the center of Jewish government and the worship of their God.

Exactly. The original decree by Cyrus in 539, and no, I am not separating the two. Those claiming Artaxerxes is the time frame are separating the "2 building" projects. After 49 years, the work stopped.

After a while it started again. So you can place either Darius or Artaxerxes as the last 62 weeks of 434 years. That is still Scripture.

Messiah was still born and cut off after 69 weeks. Now we are waiting for the final 3.5 years when Jesus will come as King, and sit on His glorious throne for the final 3.5 years.

That is all part of those 70 weeks and the Atonement is still the Covenant whereby all man are in agreement with God who accept that Covenant. But until that Atonement Covenant is confirmed, the 70 weeks are not over. Revelation 10:7 explains that will happen in the days of the 7th Trumpet.

 

[jeffweedaman]

I don't understand what you mean, but the time of the end vision of the little horn person (the prince who shall come) is still future, near future, and the 70th week.

Rubbish. The destruction of the temple happened in 70 AD by the prince who was to come.
Why ignore that event and project its fulfillment at a future time?
You are taking your eye off the ball that it was Jesus Jesus who atoned for our sin ,transgression , iniquity many moons ago.
IT IS FINISHED, and his blood and grace is sufficient for us NOW.

 

[Douggg]

Rubbish. The destruction of the temple happened in 70 AD by the prince who was to come.
Why ignore that event and project its fulfillment at a future time?

Jeff, you and CG are ignoring that the 70 weeks includes the sealing up of the vision of the time of the end little horn person when Daniel first met Gabriel.

70 AD was not time of the end. CG's chart is wrong on a number of points. And that the vision in verses 21-24 is not shown on the chart, prove it.

btw, it is the people of the prince who shall come who destroyed the city and temple... and not the prince himself. That prince is end times.

You are taking your eye off the ball that it was Jesus Jesus who atoned for our sin ,transgression , iniquity many moons ago.
IT IS FINISHED, and his blood and grace is sufficient for us NOW.

Jeff, I don't need the sermon. Everyone in this forum believes in Jesus, His death and resurrection for salvation from their sins.

Please don't confuse what I believe with Timtofly's claim of "But until that Atonement Covenant is confirmed, the 70 weeks are not over. Revelation 10:7 explains that will happen in the days of the 7th Trumpet." He is totally wrong about that statement.

Jesus completely finished the atonement for our sins when he died and was resurrected.

What I am addressing is the correctness of the chart, regarding timing of events, and omission of events that is the issue.

____________________________________________

I am guessing Anglican church teachings on the interpretation of Daniel 9 is influencing CG's chart and your devotion to it.

 

[Douggg]

But until that Atonement Covenant is confirmed, the 70 weeks are not over. Revelation 10:7 explains that will happen in the days of the 7th Trumpet.

Tim, your statement that the atonement by Jesus is still pending confirmation - is an awful untrue statement.

The gospel of salvation was completed when Jesus died on the cross and resurrected on the third day.

The covenant to be confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is the Mt Sinai covenant that Jews (Judaism) still hold to, as an act by the Antichrist, as the King of Israel coming in his own name, doing what they expect of the messiah person. They are in error of course, at present, on who the true messiah is.

The for 7 years is in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

 

[wonderkins]

The prince to come in verse 26 whose people destroy the city is Titus. He was a literal prince, and his army destroyed the city and the sanctuary, putting an end to sacrifice. The temple has been destroyed ever since and there has been no sacrificial system since.

 

[Douggg]

The prince to come in verse 26 whose people destroy the city is Titus. He was a literal prince, and his army destroyed the city and the sanctuary, putting an end to sacrifice. The temple has been destroyed ever since and there has been no sacrificial system since.

What was Titus's importance, in the text, to be mentioned in the same verses as Jesus?

The prince who shall come is not Titus. The importance of the prince who shall come in the text is that he confirms the (Mt. Sinai) covenant for 7 years (Deuteronomy 31:9-13), then stops the daily sacrifice.

The prince who shall come is the time of the end little horn person. In Daniel 8:9, he comes from north and west of Israel, from the territory of one of Alexander's four break up kingdoms, with a strong army into the middle east.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

In Daniel 8:11 the little horn person stops the daily sacrifice. Which is what the prince who shall come in Daniel 9:27 will do.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.


Daniel was informed that the vision of the little horn stopping the daily sacrifice is time of the end, by Gabriel.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

In Daniel 9:21, Daniel immediately recognizes Gabriel from his encounter with Gabriel in Daniel 8. The Lord could have sent any angel to Daniel in Daniel 9, but it was Gabriel for a reason. And the reason is that Daniel 9 contains an extension about the little horn person.

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Gabriel was sent to give Daniel more understanding about the vision regarding the little horn person, for it had troubled Gabriel, in Daniel 8:27

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

In Daniel 9:23, Gabriel then gave Daniel understanding about the time of the end vision of the little horn, who will be destroyed by the Prince of princes - the messiah.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Then Gabriel gave the entire duration that would take place for the vision to be sealed up - completed.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The vision of the time of the end little horn will be sealed up when Jesus returns to destroy the little horn person, although no human will be able to. Then the 70 weeks will be complete.

 

[wonderkins]

What was Titus's importance, in the text, to be mentioned in the same verses as Jesus?

The prince who shall come is not Titus. The importance of the prince who shall come in the text is that he confirms the (Mt. Sinai) covenant for 7 years (Deuteronomy 31:9-13), then stops the daily sacrifice.

The prince who shall come is the time of the end little horn person. In Daniel 8:9, he comes from north and west of Israel, from the territory of one of Alexander's four break up kingdoms, with a strong army into the middle east.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

In Daniel 8:11 the little horn person stops the daily sacrifice. Which is what the prince who shall come in Daniel 9:27 will do.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.


Daniel was informed that the vision of the little horn stopping the daily sacrifice is time of the end, by Gabriel.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

In Daniel 9:21, Daniel immediately recognizes Gabriel from his encounter with Gabriel in Daniel 8. The Lord could have sent any angel to Daniel in Daniel 9, but it was Gabriel for a reason. And the reason is that Daniel 9 contains an extension about the little horn person.

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Gabriel was sent to give Daniel more understanding about the vision regarding the little horn person, for it had troubled Gabriel, in Daniel 8:27

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

In Daniel 9:23, Gabriel then gave Daniel understanding about the time of the end vision of the little horn, who will be destroyed by the Prince of princes - the messiah.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Then Gabriel gave the entire duration that would take place for the vision to be sealed up - completed.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The vision of the time of the end little horn will be sealed up when Jesus returns to destroy the little horn person, although no human will be able to. Then the 70 weeks will be complete.

The prince comes after the Messiah. The Messiah comes at the end of the 62 weeks and is cut off. Titus defiled the temple and in middle of the week destroyed it.

Titus's importance is that he was a part of history. You may not think he is that prince, but I think it would be fair to address whether he did those things or not. Was he a prince? Did he destroy the city and the sanctuary using his soldiers? In doing so did he put an end to sacrifice?

History says he did. Have you read josephus? This all happened. The temple was destroyed in the middle of the week. Masada fell 1335 days later.

 

[Douggg]

Titus's important is that he was a part of history. You may not think he is that prince, but I think it would be fair to address whether he did those things or not. Was he a prince? Did he destroy the city and the sanctuary using his soldiers? In doing so did he put an end to sacrifice?

It is not that Titus was a prince or not. The issue is what does the prince who shall come do in the text. Why is there any mention of him?

Titus did not confirm the covenant in Daniel 9:27 for 7 years.

I just made a thread on the prince who shall come.

 

[grafted branch]

Daniel was informed that the vision of the little horn stopping the daily sacrifice is time of the end, by Gabriel.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

In Daniel 9:21, Daniel immediately recognizes Gabriel from his encounter with Gabriel in Daniel 8. The Lord could have sent any angel to Daniel in Daniel 9, but it was Gabriel for a reason. And the reason is that Daniel 9 contains an extension about the little horn person.

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Gabriel was sent to give Daniel more understanding about the vision regarding the little horn person, for it had troubled Gabriel, in Daniel 8:27

Many people consider the 2,300 days to be referring to AE4. If the vision that’s sealed is referring to the vision in Daniel 8 then that was fulfilled, during the 70 weeks, when the temple was restored after the act of AE4.

In Daniel 8:14 (kjv) after 2,300 days the sanctuary shall be cleansed <6663>. ESV says restored to its rightful state.

What sanctuary is restored? If it’s some 3rd temple that’s built then it’s rightful state would be to have no stone left upon another.

 

[Timtofly]

Jeff, you and CG are ignoring that the 70 weeks includes the sealing up of the vision of the time of the end little horn person when Daniel first met Gabriel.

70 AD was not time of the end. CG's chart is wrong on a number of points. And that the vision in verses 21-24 is not shown on the chart, prove it.

btw, it is the people of the prince who shall come who destroyed the city and temple... and not the prince himself. That prince is end times.



Jeff, I don't need the sermon. Everyone in this forum believes in Jesus, His death and resurrection for salvation from their sins.

Please don't confuse what I believe with Timtofly's claim of "But until that Atonement Covenant is confirmed, the 70 weeks are not over. Revelation 10:7 explains that will happen in the days of the 7th Trumpet." He is totally wrong about that statement.

Jesus completely finished the atonement for our sins when he died and was resurrected.

What I am addressing is the correctness of the chart, regarding timing of events, and omission of events that is the issue.

____________________________________________

I am guessing Anglican church teachings on the interpretation of Daniel 9 is influencing CG's chart and your devotion to it.

Did I say the confirmation means it is finished? No.

The Atonement was complete and finished before the foundation of the earth. The physical act was in 30AD. But God declared it finished before Adam even disobeyed.

There is no future 7 year treaty. You are substituting Jesus as King for some human antichrist. No AC sounds the 7th Trumpet and declares time is finished. That is God.

God in His foreknowledge declares to Jesus as King if there are any more redeemed on earth at the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. That is the only reason Satan is allowed 42 months. Those confirmed still covered by the Atonement will be beheaded during those 42 months.

That is when the Atonement is no longer offered as the daily sacrifice nor of a free will confession of faith. It is by chopping one's head off in this time of utter abomination and desolation. There is no more grace on earth, but sheol literally comes to earth in those 42 months. That is when the AoD is set up. The image is the beast that you claim is the AC.

Satan and the FP create this image as human in appearance. It represents their Adam as opposed to God's Adam in Genesis 1 and the Second Adam, Jesus.

Tim, your statement that the atonement by Jesus is still pending confirmation - is an awful untrue statement.

The gospel of salvation was completed when Jesus died on the cross and resurrected on the third day.

The covenant to be confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is the Mt Sinai covenant that Jews (Judaism) still hold to, as an act by the Antichrist, as the King of Israel coming in his own name, doing what they expect of the messiah person. They are in error of course, at present, on who the true messiah is.

The for 7 years is in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

You don't understand that the verse states:

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"

The Atonement is not being confirmed. The many are being confirmed to see if they are under the Atonement or not. This is done in God's foreknowledge. You claim it is a brand new treaty. You claim it is not Jesus. In the Hebrew this time frame can be a "week" of days or years. The 7th Trumpet is a week of days. Revelation 10:7 is the NT interpreting Daniel 9:27. Not some modern man making stuff up about a 7 year treaty. A 7 year treaty would never have been understood by those in the first century nor any one in the 500 years between Daniel and the Cross.

Many claim all 7 years of the last week happened in the first century. Many claim all 7 years happen at the Second Coming.

Both are wrong. 3.5 years make up Jesus on earth as Messiah/Christ. 3.5 years make up Jesus on earth as Prince/King. The Word made flesh is literally the 70th week. Of course both sides are going to disagree with that point. Both sides want a literally physical 7 years. But neither side can prove that from Scripture. They take 7 literal years from history.

Gabriel said:

"Know therefore and understand, that from (the going forth of the commandment) to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the (Messiah the Prince) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks"

We have two events that I placed in parenthesis. We have the word "unto" as the time between the two events. We have underlined the amount of time understood in the word "unto".

The first event is the decree. Every one seems to agree on that event. But being "cut off" is not the second event. The second event is the Word being both Messiah and Prince or Christ and King. The second event is the 70th week, not a literal 7 years in the historical record. Jesus as both Christ and King make up the 70th week.

Then we see that Christ is cut off, but not for Himself. God tells us right there in Daniel there is a gap, not for God. It is for the fulness of the Gentiles. It is for a 2,000 year church age so the whole earth can receive the blessings of the Atonement Covenant.

Until the Word returns as King, the 70th week cannot come to an end. Even if the Cross physically finished the Atonement. Grace was not finished, but extended for another 1992 years so far. After the final harvest, after the Second Coming as King, Jesus will confirm with many still alive, in God's foreknowledge, if Satan will be given 42 months or not. Those beheaded during those 42 months remain under the Atonement and are still named in the Lamb's book of life. Those who accept the mark are removed from the Lamb's book of life at that point. In Matthew 24:15 Jesus did say to flee from that area. Satan is the third woe, and his rule from Jerusalem will be utter abomination and desolation. People will have to decide to have their head chopped off or follow Satan.

 

[Douggg]

Did I say the confirmation means it is finished? No.

The Atonement was complete and finished before the foundation of the earth. The physical act was in 30AD. But God declared it finished before Adam even disobeyed.

There is no future 7 year treaty. You are substituting Jesus as King for some human antichrist. No AC sounds the 7th Trumpet and declares time is finished. That is God.

God in His foreknowledge declares to Jesus as King if there are any more redeemed on earth at the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. That is the only reason Satan is allowed 42 months. Those confirmed still covered by the Atonement will be beheaded during those 42 months.

That is when the Atonement is no longer offered as the daily sacrifice nor of a free will confession of faith. It is by chopping one's head off in this time of utter abomination and desolation. There is no more grace on earth, but sheol literally comes to earth in those 42 months. That is when the AoD is set up. The image is the beast that you claim is the AC.

Satan and the FP create this image as human in appearance. It represents their Adam as opposed to God's Adam in Genesis 1 and the Second Adam, Jesus.

Tim, your post is so confusing because you are rambling.

CG, in his opening post, presented a timeline chart of his view of the 70 weeks. Although it is wrong in many respects, the logic can be followed, as well as the events.

I presented my timeline chart, likewise as below. Please present your timeline chart of Daniel 9's 70 weeks. Your posts as is, no-one can fathom what you are talking about.

 

[Douggg]

Many people consider the 2,300 days to be referring to AE4.

Yes, I am aware of that. But Antiochus was not time of the end. So the little horn person is not him.

In Daniel 8:14 (kjv) after 2,300 days the sanctuary shall be cleansed <6663>. ESV says restored to its rightful state.

What sanctuary is restored? If it’s some 3rd temple that’s built then it’s rightful state would be to have no stone left upon another.

The temple to be built in the near future, the Revelation 11 temple John was told to measure. The rightful state is to remove those things that will have made it desolate from the worship of the One True God.

Those things will be, specifically.

1. The beast
2. The false prophet
3. The abomination of desolation statue image of the beast
4. Satan