Daniel 9:24 fulfillment

[parousia70]

Fact is, God knows exactly where His chosen seed of Israel is today

He sure does!
Paul knew as well:

16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ....29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:16,29)

Ours is simply to accept and believe what the apostle is teaching here.

We are not to teach the opposite, namely that any Christ Rejecting person or group of people are the "Chosen Seed" today, as you seem to be asserting.

That is a radical teaching Paul would not even recognize.

 

[A71]

Rather, The 1st century Jews cursed themselves and their children... End of Story.

Not Grandchildren, great grandchildren, and so on....
The Curse pertained to THAT genration, and at AD70 they paid the price IN FULL.

4 generations as always. Trying to wish away Jewry as you are doing is an error. Patrilineage defines Jewry as always.

 

[A71]

He sure does!
Paul knew as well:

16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ....29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:16,29)

Ours is simply to accept and believe what the apostle is teaching here.

We are not to teach the opposite, namely that any Christ Rejecting person or group of people are the "Chosen Seed" today, as you seem to be asserting.

That is a radical teaching Paul would not even recognize.

Is this addresed to me? Sorry am unclear

 

[A71]

This is all a rather complex issue, one I am still fumbling about with. The Old Covenant clearly expired, I would have thought, and with it, as you say, the Physical Israelite. Against that we have the Jews who wanted to stay under the Old Covenant, and who cursed their progeny:

His blood be upon us and our children!

This of course flies in the face of the New Covenant, which states that no more will the sins of the fathers be visited on the succeeding generations.

Paul states that those who live by the Law put themselves under the Law.
Romans 10:
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

So what Paul says is that it is possible to put yourself under the Law, which means that, somewhat confusingly, the Law maybe has not really expired yet.

It is complicated. The one thing that occurs to me presently is that there were at least 3 separate covenants, and the punishment of Jerusalem is actually legally enshrined in the Levitical Covenant, see Leviticus 26.

So it may be that whilst the Horeb and Moab Covenants have expired, the Levitical Covenant is still extant, and it is this which prescribes the ongoing punishment of Jerusalem. This seems to me the easiest way to understand it actually, as Paul ultimately calls down a division betweeen the Church and Jerusalem.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

[jgr]

You are definitely... the one here that is a radical. You even sound like a descendant of Ishmael that's jealous of Judah!

Fact is, God knows exactly where His chosen seed of Israel is today, and even though a portion of them today are deceived, He is Who blinded them so The Gospel could go to us Gentiles just like Apostle Paul taught in Romans 11 which you... refuse to heed. And because you refuse to believe what Paul said there, you also refuse to believe what God said through Ezekiel about the gathering of those of Judah (Jews) with those of Joseph's seed (house of Israel ten tribes) back to the land inheritances God originally gave their fathers. That makes you a radical... because you don't believe God's Word on that.

In God's New Will and Testament, all promises are fulfilled in Christ.

The OT promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.


Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.


Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.


There can be none greater.


We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.


And His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:


Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...make us who are in Christ joint heirs with Him.

But notice:
There are no promissory clauses for anyone who is not in Christ.

 

[Davy]

In God's New Will and Testament, all promises are fulfilled in Christ.

The OT promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

Can't do away with God's promises to the nation of Israel which were made for a time AFTER this present world:

Jer 31:35-36
35 Thus saith the LORD, Which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, Which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
KJV


I guess you lose that battle with our Heavenly Father. He always accomplishes what He says, regardless of men's doctrines.

 

[jgr]

Can't do away with God's promises to the nation of Israel which were made for a time AFTER this present world:

Jer 31:35-36
35 Thus saith the LORD, Which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, Which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
KJV


I guess you lose that battle with our Heavenly Father. He always accomplishes what He says, regardless of men's doctrines.

You seem to have missed these verses:

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There are also these:

Romans 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.


In the New Will and Testament, all of the promises of our Heavenly Father are Yes and Amen in His Son.

In the New Will and Testament, the seed of Israel is Christ in whose Blood the New Will and Testament is written; and the holy nation of those who are in Christ, His Church.

In the New Will and Testament, the nation of Israel is not named as an heir. Christ and His Church are.

Their battles are "not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

And they don't lose.

 

[Davy]

You seem to have missed these verses:

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
....

You simply don't understand. Paul in Romans 9 never... omitted His brethren of the seed of Israel from Christ's Salvation. Instead, he was talking about the elect remnant of the seed of Israel that were not blinded...

Rom 9:6-13
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

The way you've apprently been taught is to stop right there at that 7th verse, when it's important to keep going to learn what all Paul was teaching...


Rom.9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
KJV

Was Isaac of "the children of the promise"? Yes, most definitely, which is why Paul was explaining there that not all born of the seed of Abraham were included in that Promise. The Promise is the Promise by Faith (The Gospel of Jesus Christ) first given through Abraham and was passed down to Isaac, then Jacob, then to Joseph, and then to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh. It included certain promised blessings called God's birthright (1 Chron.5).

Jesus in the OT met and knew Abraham - Gen.18, Jesus was one of the "three men". The other two were the two angels Jesus sent to Sodom and Gomarrah to bring Lot and his people out per Gen.19.

So how could Isaac not know about the Promise by Faith first given to Abraham? He knew, and God's Word points to it; only the Biblically illiterate miss it. Same for Jacob, same for Joseph, and same for Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh where the Promise wound up in final, and where it is still today.

In Genesis 48, Jacob transferred God's Salvation Promise to Ephraim and said Ephraim's 'seed' would become "a multitude of nations". Where was that fulfilled? It was fulfilled by God having scattered the majority of the seed of Israel that made up the ten tribes, and they migrated northward and westward into the lands of Asia Minor and Europe and became the Western Christian nations of history.

So you can TRY... to leave out the actual physical 'seed' of Israel in God's Plan of Salvation through Jesus Christ, but you cannot and be aligned with His Word of Truth. Even Paul explained in Romans 11 how God preserved an elect remnant of the seed of Israel according to the election of grace.

So how is it God can do that? Was it written down that Isaac believed on the Promise by Faith, or did king David, or the prophets like Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, etc.? How is it the New Testament declares the prophets being part of the foundation of the spiritual temple in Christ Jesus, and they didn't even get to live to see Christ's crucifixion? Did you know David was a prophet also, and in Psalms 22 God gave David to know the events of Christ's crucifixion about a thousand years before... it happened? even down to the soldiers casting lots on Jesus' robes?

 

[jgr]

Rom.9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Who are the New Covenant children of the promise?

Galatians 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Paul is addressing the Galatian church, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles. As believers, they are all the children of promise, and thus counted for the seed, Gentiles included.

Ethnicity is irrelevant. That is reinforced by the fact that virtually every resident of planet earth by now possesses at least some amount of Abrahamic DNA.

 

[A71]

Ethnicity is irrelevant to the New Covenant, we can all agree on that.

The real issue is what was the Old Covenant tribal system, and what happened to it.

 

[jgr]

Ethnicity is irrelevant to the New Covenant, we can all agree on that.

The real issue is what was the Old Covenant tribal system, and what happened to it.

Thanks A71.

Given that ethnicity is irrelevant under the New Covenant (it in reality has always been irrelevant, as God judged and slew rebellious ethnic Israelites by the thousands in the desert), and the New Covenant has "vanished" the Old (by the intrinsic definition of Will/Testament/Covenant); then what significance could the Old Covenant tribal system still retain?

 

[A71]

Ethnicity was very important under the Old Covenant. I could quote Romans, but surely this is understood. Jesus came exclusively to the House Of Israel initially.

If we say that the Old Covenants and the Law are totally abrogated, then I agree, it looks very hard to see how we would understand God having any further dealings with Jews.

But that is where I take issue. Have the Covenants and the Law all now ceased to have any active clauses? I don't think so.

 

[seventysevens]

I agree that ethnicity has always been irrelevant, it was never about that , most people don't give thought to the reason why God called on the Israelite people or why Jesus was Nazarene. God is simply fulfilling the promise he made

 

[BABerean2]

But that is where I take issue. Have the Covenants and the Law all now ceased to have any active clauses? I don't think so.

 

[A71]

Can you summarize the video?

 

[jgr]

Ethnicity was very important under the Old Covenant. I could quote Romans, but surely this is understood. Jesus came exclusively to the House Of Israel initially.

If we say that the Old Covenants and the Law are totally abrogated, then I agree, it looks very hard to see how we would understand God having any further dealings with Jews.

But that is where I take issue. Have the Covenants and the Law all now ceased to have any active clauses? I don't think so.

The House of Israel was comprised of all who by faith would accept and live according to God`s conditions under the Old Covenant. These were not limited ethnically:

Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

That number also of course included those from surrounding nonethnic heathen nations who accepted the Old Covenant.

Many of the Old Covenant promises were fulfilled temporally in that era long ago:

Joshua 21
43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Christ is the Heir of all things, and those in Him, His Church, are joint heirs with Him (2 Corinthians 1:20; Hebrews 1:1-2; Galatians 3:16,28-29; Romans 8:16-17). Neither the physical nation of Israel, nor ethnic but unbelieving Israelites, are named as heirs or joint heirs in the New Covenant Will and Testament.

The law is not abrogated; it remains in the NT. But it is now distilled:

Matthew 22
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[seventysevens]

Can you summarize the video?

Excellent

 

[A71]

Yes that is true, Israel was not an exclusive club, but nonethless its core identity stemmed from a physical identity.

Conversely, the Levitical Priesthood was exclusive.

The proof of the pudding is that God made an ancestral promise to David which he upheld. He also made ancestral promises to all of Israel. To deny this seems a bit leftfield quite frankly

 

[jgr]

Yes that is true, Israel was not an exclusive club, but nonethless its core identity stemmed from a physical identity.

Conversely, the Levitical Priesthood was exclusive.

The proof of the pudding is that God made an ancestral promise to David which he upheld. He also made ancestral promises to all of Israel. To deny this seems a bit leftfield quite frankly

Yes, the ancestral promise to David reappears in the NT. It is fulfilled in Christ.

What other ancestral promises to Israel reappear in the NT?

How does removal of the old covenant and promises, and their replacement by a new and better covenant and promises, constitute denial?

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

 

[seventysevens]

The old covenant was not replaced , it was fulfilled by Jesus and he brought in a new covenant that simply includes the same people the old covenant was given