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Daniel 9:24 fulfillment

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by jgr, Dec 6, 2017.

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  1. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Who do you think, since Paul was talking to believing Gentiles who had become "nigh" by the Blood of Jesus Christ?
     
  2. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The early Church was exclusively Israelitish in composition, as evidenced in Acts 2 with Peter`s address to the "men of Israel" of whom 3,000 responded to the invitation to be saved and join. It continued as such for some 3+ years up to the time when the gospel began to be shared with the Gentiles.

    Paul characterizes this early Israel-only Church as the "commonwealth of Israel".
     
  3. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No real proof of that.

    There were Gentiles among the early Church at Antioch per Galatians 2 when Peter quit sitting with the Gentiles at table when his Jewish brethren from Jerusalem came to visit.

    Once Christ was rejected at Jerusalem, He was preached to both israelite and Gentile, and both together became the Christian Church.
     
  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You seem unable or unwilling to answer my original question yourself:

    To ensure that I understand, does "commonwealth of Israel" mean the nation of Israel; or the Church; or neither?
     
  5. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you don't understand what Paul was talking about in Ephesians 2 addressing that to believing Gentiles, then I certainly can't help you with it, because it should be easily understood.
     
  6. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's evident that you don't wish to continue this conversation, so au revoir.
     
  7. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's right, I don't care to debate such a simple matter as the meaning of Apostle Paul's "commonwealth of Israel" in Ephesians 2.
     
  8. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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  9. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure who the above are addressed to
     
  10. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Blessings brother; which post numbers are you wondering about?
     
  11. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    Hi JGR.

    Post 126
     
  12. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was responding to Davy. I did quote him. Are you able to see it?
     
  13. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    Er..no, I have some people on ignore
     
  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    OK, I can understand that. ;) He was waxing petulant, so I just called off the conversation.
     
  15. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    Paul is saying to the Ephesians that previously they were not part of The commonwealth of Israel, but now they are. As you say, when God brought in the nations through Paul, Barnabas and Peter, circa AD 44 or whenever, then All believers became part of Israel, aka the Church, or Christians.
    I am not sure what there is here to disagree on
     
  16. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    The contentious issue is when the rest of Israel was rejoined to Judah. Some make it a future event, but I think this is badly incorrect.

    Jesus went to the whole House of Israel, and Acts confirms that the whole House Of Israel accepted Christ. So it was only really the Jews, (and Levites at Jerusalem) who rejected Christ.
     
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:



    Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:


    Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


    Peter was talking to all of those who descended from Jacob on the Day of Pentecost.
    They were from many different nations.

    There is no indication in the text that all of the Jews present rejected Christ that day.


    .
     
  18. precepts

    precepts Newbie

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    Try drawing your conclusions with facts and not opinions. I provided the facts.
     
  19. precepts

    precepts Newbie

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    The man that confirmed the covenant post the Babylonian captivity was the man crowned king and high priest post the Babylonian captivity.

    The facts are all there. It was prophesied in Eze 21:26-27 and in Eze 17, particularly verses 22 to 24, and fulfilled in Zech 6:9-13.

    The vision sealed, of everlasting righteousness, is the vision of what His eternal kingdom in heaven looks like.

    Accept the facts or not.
     
  20. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    I'll take a stab at that.

    The tribal system went extinct in the first century, and it did so precisely because the Jewish Messiah came and made the faith of Abraham universal to all people groups. In contrast with the Covenant of Moses, The Messiah's Covenant detached from race, from animal sacrifices, from the Temple, from the priestly class of Aaron, and from any earthly city--and it delivered this NEW judaism decades before the OLD judaism went extinct at AD 70. This proves that Christianity was of divine origin. They prophetically foresaw that the Old system was about to vanish (Heb 8:13) and history proves they were true prophets.

    All the tribes and bloodlines were lost 20 centuries ago. Call that what you want, but that's the reality. Now, Christianity has an explanation for why this happened. The loss of the tribes, the priesthood of Aaron, the animal sacrifice, the Temple occurred because *all* people-groups were destined by God to be partakers in Abraham's faith. This prophecy of Gen 12:3 was fulfilled in the first century. (Be sure to note that Galatians 3:7-14 is the biblical interpretation of Genesis 12:3).

    In the Old Testament era, Israel was that nation of men that descended from Abraham through his sons, Isaac and Jacob (Gen 17:19; 21:9-12). Jacob was renamed "Israel" (Gen 32:28), and from Jacob came twelve sons who became patriarchs of twelve tribes, or families, of Abraham's descendants. These families famously became known as the Twelve Tribes of Israel.

    Though the most visible component of Israel's identity was familial and marked in the flesh with the mark of circumcision (Gen 17:10-11), from the earliest times certain foreigners sojourned among the Hebrew tribes and began following the Hebrew religion and way of life. These gentile migrants lacked the ancestral link to Abraham that the natural-born descendants possssed, but they nevertheless were permitted to be circumcised (Gen 17:11-13) and assimilated fully into the native-born people of God by way of conversion:

    "If a man from another country is living with you, and has a desire to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all the males of his family undergo circumcision, and then let him come near and keep it; for he will then be as one of your people; but no one without circumcision may keep it. The law is the same for him who is an Israelite by birth and for the man from a strange country who is living with you." (Ex 12:48-49)

    Gentiles who converted to the Hebrew religion in this way and sojourned among the tribes of Israel were grafted into the people of God and given full status as true Israelites. Many such naturalized citizens existed among the members of Israel, though the natural-born sons of Abraham always comprised a majority of the citizenry.

    While racial decent from Abraham (through Isaac and Jacob, "Israel") was central to identifying the members of the Israel in Old Testament times, God made it clear that all Israelites who disobeyed His covenant would be "cut off" from among the true people of God:
    "He who is born in your house...must be circumcised. My covenant will be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. The uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his people. He has broken my covenant." (Gen 17:13-14)

    Soon it became clear that other violations of the covenant also served to "cut off" individuals from among the people of God (Lev 18:29; Num 15:30-31; Ex 12:15,19; Ex 31:14; Lev 7:20-27; Lev 23:28-30). Such a person was at that point considered a heathen and not a child of Abraham. This practice of exclusion from the covenant society continued down to Ezra's time (Ezra 10:8) and even to Christ's day (Jn 9:22; Jn 12:42; Mt. 18:15-17; 1 Cor 5:1-2,5,11-13).

    In reality, conformity to God's covenantal commands, above all else, determined one's status as a member of Israel. Put another way, a person's identity with Israel was derived from and maintained by obedience----for the natural-born citizen's privilege as Israel could be nullified through disobedience, and the foreigner's status as an alien of Israel could be removed through obedience.

    At times the issue of obedience became paramount for the nation of Israel. Scripture records numerous apostasies by--and subsequent excommunications of--seditious sons of Abraham. Examples may be multipled: God struck down thousands of rebellious Israelites in the wilderness (Num 14:26-45; Num 21:5-9; Num 16:1-50), though the church was preserved and led to the Promised Land (Acts 7:38-45); In Isaiah's day, apostasy became so rampant that Israel continued to exist through a small but faithful remnant (Isa 10:22-23; Isa 1:7-9; Rom 9:27-29); In Elijah's era, the multitude of Israelites who worshiped the false god Baal was so great that faithful Israel narrowed to a mere seven thousand men (1 Kings 19:1-18; Rom 11:2-4). Lastly, at the close of the Old Testamental age, Israel was again reduced to a small remnant of faithful elect ones (Rom 11:5). The Jewish Pharisees and temple rulers grew wicked to the point of killing God's holy Messiah and apostles (1 Thess 2:14-16), and throngs wanted Caesar as king instead of Messiah, the son of David (Jn 19:15). Then as in times past, true Israel survived and continued on through the faithful sons, while the unfaithful apostates were "cut off" from among the people.

    The severe sedition and schism that took place in Christ's generation between the faithful sons and the disobedient brothers was not without warning. As St. Peter testified to his contemporary Jewish brethren:
    "For Moses said: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me: him you shall hear according to all things whatsoever he shall speak to you. And it shall be, that every soul which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. And all the prophets, from Samuel and afterwards, who have spoken, have told of these days." (Acts 3:22-24)

    THIS is your answer to what happened.

    As Moses and St. Peter had forewarned, the wicked sons of Israel of that generation were dramatically cut off at the destruction of Jerusalem, at AD 66-70. The disobedient sons received many dire warnings from Jesus the Messiah:
    "Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites...you are the sons of them that killed the prophets. Fill up then the measure of your fathers. You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar. Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? Behold, you house shall be left to you, desolate" (Matt 23:29,33-38)

    Again the Messiah predicted the imminent destruction of the rebellious sons:
    When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, "If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." (Luke 19:41-44)

    As a testimony to God's providential care for his faithful remnant, the obedient sons of Abraham were miraculously spared and protected while the wicked sons were judged and destroyed from among the people. Addresing his beloved apostles and followers, Jesus said:
    "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles" (Luke 21:20-22).

    Once the faithful nation of God's elect were miraculously protected, the doom predicted for wicked brothers would commence. As Jesus forewarned:
    "When therefore the Lord therefore of the vineyard comes, what will he do unto those vine-growers? They said unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will rent out his vineyard unto other vine-growers, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus said unto them, Did you never read in the scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, this became the chief corner stone: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?' Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Mt 21:40-45)

    And so true Israel---the sons of Abraham who followed the Messiah, as manifested by Providence and by history---was again preserved during a time of national apostasy and tribulation. As was the case in former times with Moses, Elijah, and Isaiah, countless apostates were cut off from among the people. But God's elect Israel, the faithful remnant, triumphed and continued on, spreading the good news of the Kingdom of God to the entire world, in and through the Jewish Church.

    Israel survived *exclusively* in the sect of the Nazarenes. They received with joy their promised New Covenant and obediently rejected all former biases against the non-Abrahamic families of earth so that Genesis 12:3 might finally be attained (Gal 3:7-9/Rom 4:13-18)---via the work of the Jewish Messiah. This sole surviving form of covenant Judaism is known worldwide as Christianity, the Jewish church gone global. The church always was the covenanted Israel, the church continues to be the covenanted Israel. The only difference is that the NEW covenant of Israel enabled Jewish fullness to be bestowed upon gentile people groups (Gen 12:3).
     
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