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Daniel 11

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by greekgal, Oct 2, 2002.

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  1. greekgal

    greekgal New Member

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    The description of the contemptible king of the North that is mentioned in the prophecy of 11th Chapter of Daniel sounds hauntingly like Saddam Hussein. Another thing that's also spooky there is the fact that "ships from the western coastlands" will be gathering in the nearby waterways to go up against this Northern king. "Western coastlands" make me think of the United States and/or Great Britain, and the land of the "South" that the Northern king invades makes me think of Kuwait. It's just so weird, seeing that Daniel saw his prophecy in a river that runs through what is known now as Kuwait.
     
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  2. greekgal

    greekgal New Member

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    OOPS ... MY MISTAKE ... I DIDN'T PROOFREAD ... I MEANT TO SAY "... WHAT IS KNOWN AS IRAQ.
     
  3. JagSayon

    JagSayon Member

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    Non-Denom
    Interesting information. Thanks for sharing. :)

    Jag
     
  4. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    King of the North means just that he is from the North. Iraq is east of Israel. Tho' Saddam is an evil dictator, he is NOT the King of the North.
     
  5. greekgal

    greekgal New Member

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    Oh, OK, thanks for enlightening me. :)
     
  6. Blynn

    Blynn Well-Known Member

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    I have moved your thread to the Eschatology forum. :) I think this is a more appropriate forum for this discussion.

    I believe Russia is located directly North of Israel. :)
     
  7. Brian45

    Brian45 Senior Member

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    The soviet empire has ended , and a new empire is rising from its ashes " Islam ".

    The southern republics of the former soviet union are all muslim nations exept the ukrain , armenia , and georgia .

    And they have 3 things in common :
    1 - They are all muslim
    2 - They all lack hard currency
    3 - They all have nuclear weapons within their boundaries and at their disposal , these 3 factors are a dangerous combination .

    The new king of the north ?
    We will have to wait and see .
     
  8. Frank

    Frank New Member

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    Hmm...actually Lebanon is located directly north of Israel...
     
  9. sarkazma

    sarkazma New Member

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    ahha way to stay on the ball frank :)
     
  10. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    Except he forgot one thing,....it is to the UTTERMOST North of Israel...a very important detail...this is why understanding prophecy is so difficult...and wrong conclusions are drawn by so many...
     
  11. Frank

    Frank New Member

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    The North Pole is the UTTERMOST north point from Israel, not Russia.  Where does the Bible say that it has to be the "uttermost" north?
     
  12. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    Frank,

    My guess is that Ladylove dosen't need scriptural evidence for that. Based on my past experience, as long as "Other People" believe it, that's all that matters to her. It dosen't need to be supported with scripture as long as she can find somebody else besides her who believes it.
     
  13. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

    375
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    Protestant
  14. Brian45

    Brian45 Senior Member

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    Patmosman , that site was preterist nonsense .

    And how do you explain this :

    Revelation 11
    8And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[1] Lord was crucified. 9Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow[2] their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.


    (  The world will see their dead bodies .  )    Prior to the modern mass media , television , internet , etc , etc , this would have been imposible .

    If this happened 2000 years ago , then tell me how the world saw the dead bodies of Gods 2 Prophets in the city of jerusalem ( Where also our lord was crucified ) and if it is now history , then it would have been recorded , so who were these 2 guys and what were their names ?
     
  15. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

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    The Chalcedon Foundation is hardly a "preterist" organization. As difficult as it may be for you to accept this fact, preterists are not the only ones who believe that "the Great Tribulation" spoken of in the Olivet Discourse took place in A.D. 70.

    The "two witnesses" are Moses and Elijah, representative of the Old Covenant, the Law and the Prophets. Their death in the streets of the city "where their Lord was crucified" indicates that they are joined with Christ in his crucifixion, as Christ's death is the completion of the witness of the Law and the Prophets. Yet, not only are Moses and Elijah joined with Christ in his death, they also join with him in his resurrection and ascension (vv. 11-12), the ultimate fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets and the vindication of God's people.

    Your focus on "modern mass media" misses the mark entirely. What John sees here is not some future event, but the deeper implications of Christ's death and resurrection. Christ is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets and, by yielding to death itself, has laid bare, for all the world to see, both the utter destructiveness of the fallen order and God's radical, mysterious plan to redeem it out of its fallenness.

    Keep your eyes on the cross, not the TV set, and all this will become clear.
     
  16. Brian45

    Brian45 Senior Member

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    Matthew 24
    20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.


    How can what happened 2000 years ago be the worst time in history , we all know that world war 2 was far worse than anything that happened before .

     

    And what about this  :     Revelation 11:17

    "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The One who is and who was and who is to come,<SUP>[7]</SUP>
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SUP> 18</SUP>The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; And those who fear Your name, small and great,
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

    &nbsp;

    Who was destroying the earth 2000 years ago&nbsp; ?&nbsp; and with what weapons&nbsp;&nbsp; ?
     
  17. Frank

    Frank New Member

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    At no other time in history 1.1 million people died in an interval of two or three months...that never happened during World War 2

    You are not hebrew and you read the scripture with a western understanding of life and culture.&nbsp; To jews, stars falling from the skies and the earth being destroyed means something other than what it means to us.&nbsp; To jews, the heaven, earth and sea were representative of the temple system.&nbsp; The sea was representative of the outer court of the temple (court of the gentiles), the earth was the holy place, and heaven was the holy of holies.&nbsp; Josephus wrote about this at length in Jewish Antiquities.&nbsp; Your failure to research this topic is never a good excuse to dimiss other opinions as "nonsense".&nbsp;

    Probably you think Isaiah saying that the establishment of Israel by God was the establishment of HEAVENS AND EARTH is also "nonsense?"

    "I have put my words in your mouth and have covered you with the shadow of my hand, to establish the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, you are my people" Isaiah 51:16
     
  18. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    Hi Brian.

    &nbsp;Lets compare scripture with scripture, to take a closer look at your hermeneutic here, and see if it holds up shall we?

    Jesus was utilizing a common Old Testament figure of speech in Matthew 24:21: "ever was/nor ever shall be." &nbsp;
    Scripture tells us in 1 Kings 3:12 that there was "no king like Solomon before or &nbsp;
    after him." Such statements are then repeated in 2 Kings 18:5-6 of &nbsp;
    Hezekiah and in 2 Kings 23:25 of Josiah. Obviously, they can't all be &nbsp;
    the greatest King there ever was nor ever shall be. And, of course, &nbsp;
    Jesus Christ surpasses even Solomon (Matt. 12:42). This same Old &nbsp;
    Testament idea of "never will be again" is employed of various judgments &nbsp;
    that have already been fulfilled, such as locusts in Egypt (Ex. &nbsp;
    10:12-15; cf. Joel 1:1-4), a cry in Egypt (Ex. 11:6), and judgment upon &nbsp;
    OT Israel (Ez. 5:9; Joel 2:2). &nbsp;
    &nbsp;
    Therefore, we are bound by the set precedent to recognize that the expression "ever was/nor ever shall be" is a common Hebraic idiom &nbsp;
    meaning "very great" or "very much." &nbsp;To ignore this set precedent is, IMHO, unfounded.


    &nbsp;I'd ask you to comment on how the same Old Testament idea of "never will be again" is employed of various judgments that have already been fulfilled, such as locusts in Egypt (Ex. 10:12-15; cf. Joel 1:1-4), a cry in Egypt (Ex. 11:6), and judgment upon OT Israel (Ez. 5:9; Joel 2:2). &nbsp; Seriously, how can you ever square Ezekiel 5:8-9 with some yet-future "greatest disaster against Israel" ? &nbsp;The prophet Ezekiel, in Ez 5:8-9, clearly calls the Babylonian desolation against Israel the greatest disaster that God will ever bring against Israel. &nbsp; With your hermeneutic, there is no way to claim that some GREATER disasters lie in political Israel's future, or to claim that AD70 was worse than the Babylonian exile (when it clearly was) &nbsp;No way at all. &nbsp;Ezekiel assigns the "Greatest of all" &nbsp;to 586 BC!&nbsp;

    &nbsp;&nbsp;Our Lord was simply saying in &nbsp;
    Matthew 24:21 that there would be very great tribulation. &nbsp;It was in fact the "greatest tribulation" ever suffered by the Mosaic economy of Operational Biblical Judaism.&nbsp;
    &nbsp;
    &nbsp;
    Use scripture to interprate scripture Brian.


    &nbsp;

    Again, If you would only let scripture interprate scripture, you will see that this language of "universal destruction" is used by the prophets over and over and over and over to describe local judgements against nations, principalities and people.

    If we were to apply your current hermeneutic with consistancy, across the board, whenever we come across this type of language, we would have to assert that the "World" was totally destroyed several times prior to Christ's Birth.

    See:Isaiah 13, Isaiah 24, Isiah 34, Nahum 1: 1-5.

    All of these speak of&nbsp; "Day of the Lord" Events, in our past, where the "world", even the "Heavens" were completely and utterly destroyed.

    The Bible interprates itself quite well Brian. We don't need TV, Newspapers, Left Behind Fiction Novels, Movies, Encyclopedias, Dictionarys, or a 21st century World Atlas to do it for us.
     
  19. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    Your question and other posts in this thread&nbsp;certainly proves you are not a serious student of prophecy to me because you do not study to show yourself approved.&nbsp; But to show to you that others like me ARE dedicated students of prophecy (tho' we may disagree) I will be gracious to you and show you why you are wrong.&nbsp;

    You need to read Ezk. 38:6, 38:15 and 39:2 in my translation it states it as "far north" or it can be "extreme" or "uttermost".&nbsp; It shows you that if you take your finger to a globe and go due north of Israel you will see that Eastern Europe and Western Russia are the areas that have armies and&nbsp;will do in the future what God has foretold.&nbsp; The North Pole does NOT&nbsp;have armies to conquer anything nor the population to sustain such a campaign.&nbsp; Do you see why your comment is discredited to real prophetic students.&nbsp; You are in the wrong forum to make such ridiculous statements like that and need to go back to general apologetics.&nbsp;

    &nbsp;

    &nbsp;
     
  20. Brian45

    Brian45 Senior Member

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    &nbsp;

    &nbsp;

    &nbsp;:clap:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
     
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