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Featured Daniel 11 & 12 historically explained step by step.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Revealing Times, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Dan.9:27 said Sinai did it sir? I said he WORD Covenant means AGREEMENT. Now go back, research, and show me where it says Sinai anywhere in Dan. chapter 9, then get back with me. And no, its only clear to you Mr. Douggg, nobody else sees Sinai in that verse. It obstructs your whole view, you got it in ingrained long ago, and it dominates your whole thought process it seems.

    And I might have stated Strong's but I am using these two in this instance because I am researching the original Hebrew texts.

    —Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

    —Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

    But here's the Actually Strong's on Covenant: BELOW:

    From H1262 (in the sense of cutting (like H1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh):—confederacy, [con-]feder[-ate], covenant, league.
    —Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

    Nowhere even in Strong's does it say a Holy Covenant, what I suspect you are on is a COMMENTARY BOARD.

    I don't need a link , I know what it means.....Covenant means AGREEMENT....I am not looking for Sinai Covenant like you, because Sinai is nowhere to be found in that verse.

    Because I can show you many places in the bible where Covenant means AGREEMENT between men. And verse 32 points toward a SPECIFIC COVENANT. (SMH)

    And yes HE RENEGES in the middle of the week. Dan. 8:25 says BY PEACE he destroys MANY, meaning he uses peace to deceive MANY NATIONS including Israel, then he turns on them, meaning he BREAKS THE PEACE AGREEMENTS !! Meaning he RENEGES !!

    Douggg, this below can not be denied !!

    Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    When does this happen Mr. Douggg? After the 1000 year reign.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You were trying to make a point that Daniel 9:27 the strong's numbers for covenant could not be the same as for the Mt. Sinai covenant. In response, I showed in Jeremiah 31:32 the strong's number for covenant s the same as in Daniel 9:27. So your point - negated.

    Now you want me show where the word "Sinai" appears in Daniel 9? The word itself is of course not in Daniel 9, but reference to the Mt. Sinai covenant is in Daniel 9.

    As Daniel was confessing on the behalf of his people, Daniel referred to the Mt. Sinai covenant, which the law was given. And the terms of the Mt. Sinai covenant, "the oath" of a curse, if they started worshiping false gods, would be poured out on them.

    Daniel 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

    :doh: RT, please, just cut your losses.
    You cannot show me a covenant between men in the bible that has to be confirmed on the 7 year shmita cycle or any 7 year cycle or for 7 years.

    Moses made it a requirement to confirm (the word confirm is not in the text, but the essence is) the Mt. Sinai covenant on the 7 year shmita cycle in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. And the Jews I have talked to are aware of the requirement say the speech has to be be given from the temple mount.
    Why do you continue with this? How does Ezekiel 39:21-22 apply to being after the judgment in Revelation 20:9......

    21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

    22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.




     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  3. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I clicked on your link then on the WORD COVENANT:

    Word: ZIXA

    Pronounce: ber-eeth'

    Strong: H1285

    Orig: from 1262 (in the sense of cutting (like 1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh):--confederacy, (con-)feder(-ate), covenant, league. H1262 H1254

    Use: TWOT-282a Noun Feminine

    Grk Strong: G1242 G1785


    1. 1) covenant, alliance, pledge
      1a) between men
      1a1) treaty, alliance, league (man to man)
      1a2) constitution, ordinance (monarch to subjects)
      1a3) agreement, pledge (man to man)
      1a4) alliance (of friendship)

      1a5) alliance (of marriage)
      1b) between God and man
      1b1) alliance (of friendship)
      1b2) covenant (divine ordinance with signs or pledges)
      2) (phrases)
      2a) covenant making
      2b) covenant keeping
      2c) covenant violation
    Looks like even your site agrees with me !!
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    RT, :angel: One of the applications of strong's word 1285 for covenant can be between man to man. But not exclusively as that application only.

    The same strong's word (1285) for covenant is found in Jeremiah 31:32 for the covenant God with Israel made at Sinai.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] 31:32 Not according to the covenant 1285 that I made 3772 8804 with their fathers 1 in the day 3117 [that] I took 2388 8687 them by the hand 3027 to bring them out 3318 8687 of the land 776 of Egypt 4714; which my covenant 1285 they brake 6565 8689, although I was an husband 1166 8804 unto them, saith 5002 8803 the LORD 3068 : (although…: or, should I have continued an husband unto them?)
    ____________________________________________________________________

    Also you misunderstood why I gave you the link to that site. It was not because I didn't think that you did not know what the word covenant meant. It was so that you would have a handy reference site for strong's numbers, generally speaking. Whenever, you have a need.
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    RT, a rehash of the main reasons, people are amiss in their eschatology regarding Daniel 9:27.

    1. misuse of the term Antichrist, by inattention to the term "the Christ" in the biblical backdrop of being a promised great king of Israel descended from David that would lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety.

    2. unaware of Deuteronomy 31:9-13, the confirmation requirement of the Mt. Sinai covenant on the 7 year schmita cycle - focusing on the land as given to the children of Israel as theirs forever.

    A likely reason, in part, is that if a person does a word search for "confirm" or "confirmation", including by strong's numbers and concordances - Deuteronomy 31:9-13 is not going to show up.

    It is not going to show up because the word "confirm" is not in there. But the essence of Moses's requirement constitutes confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant.

    3. not being aware of what the Jews are expecting of the messiah in their view of the messiah. And that the Jews view the new covenant we know to be in Christ, foretold in Jeremiah 31:32-33, as not being "new" - but as a "renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant. Hence the confirming according to Moses requirement of the Mt. Sinai covenant would meet their expectation.

    4. I am going to add one other thing - and that is the lack of understanding of there being a difference between the transgression of desolation and the abomination of desolation. Or even being aware the term transgression of desolation exists in the bible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  6. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Do you understand why there is like 5 or 6 other mentions before its says God and Man? Because God making a Covenant is VERY, VERY RARE !! It just doesn't happen that often, but men make AGREEMENTS DAILY, hence you have to understand the context in any situation via the verses you are reading and you don't understand Dan. 9:27 it would seem. A MAN makes AGREEMENTS with MANY, not just Israel but with MANY (so MANY stands for many nations/peoples). Read Daniel 11, the chapter this is based on, read the OP I have all of this in the OP Mr Douggg. In verses 40-45 it shows the Anti-Christ conquering MANY NATIONS.

    I do not understand why you don't get it yes if its speaking about THE COVENANT between God and Abraham it will point to that SPECIFICALLY, but an AGREEMENT between the Little Horn and MANY has nothing to do with God.

    If had clicked the link, it would have taken me away from my post ! !! I like the site.

    TRY THIS ONE, it is way cool, you will like it............I use this site, then when I click on a word it takes me to the SECOND LINK.

    Daniel 9 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study

    Strong's Number 1285 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com
     
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Too many Chiefs makes for a crowded wigwam............

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...clouds-of-heaven.8070185/page-2#post-72865223

    John 11:49
    And one of them, Caiaphas, being Chief priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all,

    John 18:13
    And they led Him away to Annas first, for he was the father-in-law of Caiaphas, who was Chief priest that year.

    Acts 23:
    2 At this, the Chief Priest Ananias ordered those standing near Paul to strike him on the mouth.
    3 Then Paul said to him, “God will strike you, you whitewashed wall!
    You sit here to judge me according to the Law, yet you yourself violate the law by commanding that I be struck.”

    Acts 24:1
    Now after five days Ananias the Chief priest came down with the elders and a certain orator named Tertullus. These gave evidence to the governor against Paul.


    Heb 4:14
    Seeing then that we have a great Chief Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
     
  8. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Gotta love Paul's spunk.
     
  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Great thread. I especially like Daniel 11, North vs South.
    Judah and Israel come to mind after the split:

    The northern kingdom continued to be called the Kingdom/House of Israel or Israel,

    while the southern kingdom was called the Kingdom/House of Judah.

    Those 2 kingdoms/houses had a few scrapes against in each in the OT [including Saul and David]

    1 Kings 12:21
    "When Rehoboam came to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, and the tribe of Benjamin, a hundred and eighty thousand chosen warriors, to fight against the house of Israel,
    to restore the kingdom to Rehoboam the son of Solomon."
     
  10. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Saul should'a counted his blessings when David didn't outright kill him at least twice when he had ample opportunity.
     
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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  12. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I see they have bumped my thread, I have been busy most of the day, being Sunday.

    Yes its very helpful in ones studies, I like it a lot, glad to share it with everyone.
     
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    It appears Luke 21:24 is also referring to Revelation 13:10

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...21-24-revelation-13-10.8073340/#post-72945941
    Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10[Poll Thread]

    Luke 21:24
    And they shall be falling to mouth of sword
    and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.

    And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
    [Reve 11:2/13:10]

    Revelation 13:10

    If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
    If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.

    Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.

    http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

    Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, .................Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.
    Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.

    ........the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome.
    After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves, or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ; whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.[Deuteronomy 28:68]

    Deuteronomy 28:
    67 “In the morning you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were morning!’
    because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see.
    68 “And the LORD will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.'
    And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”
     
  14. DaDad

    DaDad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First of all:
    Daniel 11 starts at Daniel 10:1, where Cyrus is still king over the Persians. He has eclipsed the Babylonian empire in military and economic strength, but hasn't conquered the Babylonians yet. When Cyrus DOES defeat the Babylonians, he will be called "king Cyrus" as Chapter 1:21 defines. But until then, Cyrus is only king over the Persians.

    Secondly:
    Daniel 11:1 says: And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mede, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him.

    Did MacArthur need "strengthening" while signing the surrender document onboard the U.S.S. Missouri battleship? No, but the Japanese foreign minister, Mamoru Shigemitsu certainly did. And so too, where Darius the Mede has been incorrectly "identified" as a Medo/Persian, in contradiction to HISTORICAL EVIDENCE, Scripture plainly states he was the last Babylonian king (--that needed confirmation and strengthening--):

    Daniel 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasu-e′rus, by birth a Mede, who became king over the realm of the Chalde′ans—

    So after the city of Babylon was surrounded Darius was made king, but were couriers sent to the world's kingdoms and libraries? NO, -- THE CITY WAS SURROUNDED.


    -- Perhaps we should all OBEY what the angel said in 12:4 & 9. The prophecies are NOT ANCIENT, they're modern.

    4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
    9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

    Thanks,
    DaDad
     
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