Daniel 11 & 12 historically explained step by step.

Revealing Times

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I will endeavor to explain each step of the multi-faceted prophecy by Daniel in chapters 11 and 12. Its a tedious project to be sure, but I got tired of telling everyone who asked me what Daniel chapter 11 meant and having to tell them it was too complex, so I went to studying and matching each verse with history as best I could. I found Daniel chapter 12 is an extension of Daniel chapter 11, so they kind of go hand and hand. This will be a tad long, but its a valuable thread.

DANIEL CHAPTER 11 & 12 AN EXEGESIS OF SORTS:

Daniel 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.

The first verse in chapter 11 is seemingly a direct continuation of chapter 10. Gabriel is still uttering unto Daniel things to come. Gabriel states that back in the first year of Darius (same year Daniel ch. 9 was given us) that he "stood to confirm and strengthen him". So what does this even mean? Who are the players here? Micheal, Gabriel, Darius and Daniel, so who stood to confirm and strengthen? I proffer that its Darius who is being strengthened by Gabriel and I get that by looking at the next few verses in contextual sequence. It seems Gabriel comes against certain world powers and sometimes strengthens other world powers, according to Gods will. The powers of the spiritual world and their behind the scenes back and forth is indeed fascinating.

2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.

This seems to be the whole history of Persia in one verse, just a filler of history so to speak.

3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.

This of course is about Alexander the great of Grecian lore.

4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

After Alexander the Great died there stood up four Kings in his stead, this is not the norm to say the least. Succession of Kingdoms are usually passed from father to son or some close kin and thus this prophetic uttering was spot on, the Kingdom was divided unto his four Generals.

5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.

The King of the south as mentioned here is of course Ptolemy I (First) this is still speaking about the Greek Empire. The southern most kingdom became very strong and powerful as did the northern kingdom. Basically these two were the "super powers" of the region, while the other two diminished in power. This is the era of the First Syrian War being described.

wp-1468458411284.jpg

(Inset: Timeline & Map of the Syrian Wars.)

6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

We have moved ahead here to the last part of the Second Syrian War. Ptolemy II, the king of the south, sent his daughter Berenice unto Antiochus II, the king of the north hoping their marriage would bring peace. It however did not work as planned, Antiochus II, Berenice and their son were all murdered by Antiochus II's ex-wife.

7 But out of a branch of her roots (Berenice's brother) shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail: 8 And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north. 9 So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land.

The above describes the Third Syrian War. Ptolemy III, the brother of Berenice invaded the north victoriously. He recovered a number of statues and many valuables and returned them to Egypt. He of course outlived the king of the north by a few years, hence the prophetic uttering in verse 8 comes to pass.

10 But his sons shall be stirred up, and shall assemble a multitude of great forces: and one shall certainly come, and overflow, and pass through: then shall he return, and be stirred up, even to his fortress. 11 And the king of the south shall be moved with choler, and shall come forth and fight with him, even with the king of the north: and he shall set forth a great multitude; but the multitude shall be given into his hand. 12 And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it.

This of course is the Forth Syrian War. Antiochus III tried to invade the south but Ptolemy IV defeated him despite having a lesser army, but this manged to weaken both of them somewhat.

13 For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches. 14 And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall. 15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand. 16 But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

This of course is the Fifth Syrian War. Antiochus III returned some years later with a much larger army and took the land of Israel by force.

17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.

Antiochus III gave his daughter Cleopatra to Ptolemy V for a wife, but she ended up siding with Ptolemy V over her father. Blood is not always thinker than water it seems !!

18 After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him. 19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.

Antiochus III ventured to take more lands, against the will of the Romans. He angered his former ally Macedonian king Philip V also, and was eventually killed in his homeland while plundering a pagan temple.

20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Antiochus III's son Seleucus IV became king and had to raise taxes because Rome was forcing him to have to pay for all his fathers wars, he was soon poisoned to death it seems.

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Antiochus IV then became king, he is called a vile person. He became king via a series of maneuvers which included flattering the king of Pergamum to gain his allegiance and by the death of the heir to the throne.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

The High Priest (prince of the covenant) was replaced via a conspiracy involving the high priests brother and Antiochus Epiphanes but his brother was also double crossed when another priest bribed Antiochus Epiphanes with even more money, it seems he was for sale at all times for a price.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

Antiochus Epiphanes wanted to conquer Egypt in a bad way. He took a "small army" down to Egypt feigning to be their protector of Ptolemy VI who was his nephew. He was of course trying to deceive them whereas he could eventually conquer them. This was seemingly his master-plan.

24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

Antiochus Epiphanes gained Egypt's trust and loyalty via spreading his bounty from his wars amongst the public. He visited Egyptian strongholds to get a better understanding on how to conquer them, he was quite cunning.

25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him. 26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.

This is the Sixth Syrian War. (the last of the lot). This was Antiochus Epiphanes against Ptolemy VI. Antiochus Epiphanes attacked Egypt and prevailed over them and many of the Egyptians were by him and betrayed Ptolemy VI. He was a corrupter of people no doubt, he knew how to divide and conquer.

27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course made king of Egypt by the Alexandrians who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer.

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexanderia. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and he seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in some of his mannerisms.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Antiichus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. 33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Atniochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. So many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so and paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

I think this is referring to the Maccabean Revolt and/or right around that time. It seems we need to look at this prophecy here in segments. A historical segment that has already been fulfilled (Dan. 11:1-35) and an eschatological segment where the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Of course when Daniel received this prophetic uttering none of it had basically come to pass, now all of it has come to pass except for Dan. 11:36-45 and Dan. 12:1-12. So, it seems after verse 35 we can say that we fast forward so to speak into eschatology.

We get the historical lessons via the prophecy of all the Grecian Kingdoms and the Syrian Wars which are detailed unto the nth degree, then Rome became the Fourth Beast and Greece seems to have faded into the background so to speak until the last King/Little Horn arrives, which comes from their lineage. We know this via Daniel chapter 8. We are told of this end time king starting in verse 36 and running unto the end of Daniel chapter 12. Notice in verse 34 and 35 above, it speaks of the time of the end as a yet to be appointed time and states that basically from Antiochus Epiphanes on, there will continue to be persecution and troubles and many who fall will be helped but others will heed the lies of the wicked one or his (flatteries). Some who understand will fall OR BE TRIED and PURGED !! Think of Paul, Peter and the Saints of the Church Age....to make them WHITE (pure), even to the END OF TIME !! Very, very exciting stuff !!

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

The king here has to be the end time Anti-Christ/Beast of Daniel 7:11. He is of course not called the king of the north or south here for a specific reason, the Sixth Syrian War ended the Syrian Wars. Rome came between Greece and Egypt putting a halt to Antiochus Epiphanes plans for good. Rome of course eventually conquered both Egypt and Greece thus becoming the Fourth Beast of the region over Israel.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

This verse insinuates he is an Atheist, and that he takes no heed of the thoughts of women, or it may mean he takes no heed unto an observance of the women's gods, what-soever that might entail. He listens not to women is the inference I take from this, their desires affect him on no wise. Like modern day Muslims, hes oblivious to their thoughts. He then magnifies himself or elevates himself to the equal of God. He of course demands to be worshiped as God.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

This European King who is born in Greece will be a man of war, he rules by brute force. I think the god his fathers knew not will himself, he will of course place an image of himself in the temple of God. Thus he divides the land of Israel and the spoil thereof.

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

The king of the south will come (push at) against the king of the north. This means the king being mentioned in verse 36 is the King of the North. I think the reason it was not mentioned there is Gabriel/God did not want to confuse us as to that king still being a pat of the Syrian Wars, we have moved on unto the end times. Now that Gabriel has made that clear in verse 36 he needs to describe these kings as per who they are again. The king of the north was of the Syrian part of the Greek Empire which of course eventually became a part of the Roman Empire (Fourth Beast). The Egyptian part of the Greek kingdom was the king of the south. I think the king of the south here is more than just Egypt however, my thinking is the king of the south here is all of North Africa along with maybe Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, Qatar Yemen well you all get the point, its those nations who seemingly pushes at or comes against the king of the north or European Union and the Beast.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

The Anti-Christ (King of the North here) enters into the Holy land, and many countries shall be overthrown. I think this infers he conquers Israel and the many nations he entered into peace/security agreements with, I think it will be the king of the south or all the Arab nations I mentioned above plus or minus some here or there more no doubt. Once he conquers Israel and these other nations he becomes the Beast of the region course. But God says Edom, Moab and Ammon will escape out of his hands, these three are just east of Israel. So basically Jordan is not touched, seemingly this is where Israel flees unto and God protects them in this Wilderness for 1260 days.

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

This seems to confirm my understanding above, he conquers all of North Africa and thus hes the Mediterranean Sea Region Beast like all the ones that came before him. (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome) He is the last of the Beasts, he will never pass his kingdom to another thus he is known as the Beast himself, a man.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

We can not know for certain what this verse means, we can of course make an educated guess. The east tidings could mean Iran and Iraq or it could mean China. The north tidings could be Russia. Remember he is the king himself of the European Union thus its natural that if he invaded Israel and a bunch of oil rich nations he might very well get push back from China and Russia, both nations with great prestige and a vested interest in these oil rich nations themselves.

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

The Glorious holy mountain is most certainly Jerusalem. You have the Mediterranean Sea and the Dead Sea on either side of Jerusalem, so that could be what the verse is implying as per the "between the seas". I think we all know tabernacles means dwelling place, thus he will dwell in Jerusalem, seemingly in a grand palace.

dan11-map.jpg


Daniel 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I think Micheal is the Angel God has chosen to protect Israel at the end times thus he stands up meaning he wields his authority/power at the appointed time. Some think he allows the Anti-Christ to come forth, but I see that as Jesus Christ opening of the Seals in Rev. ch. 6. At this time, at the end times, Daniel is basically told this will be when the resurrections of the Saints will happen. I do not think Daniel is told any specific time as per the resurrections, its just a general timing, "at the end". So at this great time of troubles, Micheal will deliver the Jewish peoples from their despair, I think he delivers them unto Petra in Jordan and protects them for 1260 days. Everyone who makes it to heaven however has to do it via faith !!

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

That was the end of the vision Gabriel gave to Daniel. It spanned from Daniels time on earth, both the Persian and Grecian Empires and all the way to the end of time and the resurrection of the Saints and even tells of a future eternity. Gabriel told Daniel of Babylon and coming Beast systems. It was not easily understood, especially before all of these events came to pass, even now many people still have problems understanding these complex prophesies of God. But Gabriel must have sensed Daniels confusion, thus he seemingly tries to explain it somewhat, thus Dan. ch. 12 is extended a wee bit for Daniel.

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Daniel sees two more "people" besides Gabriel. One is a man clothed in linen on the water, this would seem to me to be Jesus Christ even though Daniel had no concept of exactly who he was it seems. Gabriel or another Angel then asks Jesus how long shall it be until the end of these wonders. I think he sensed Daniels confusion and tried to give him some further understanding.

He then proceeds to swear by Him that lives forever, that when the holy peoples shall be scattered there will be a time, times and a half [time] and everything will have been accomplished, or these wonders will have ceased. Meaning that from the time Israel are scattered or flee Judea until all of these prophesies are fulfilled there will be 1260 days. (time, times and half time) In other words Jesus returns and buttons up all of these prophesies exactly 1260 days after the Israel people flee Judea (are scattered). Daniel then asks for more understanding because he had no clue what he was being told SEE BELOW:

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Daniel begs for more clarity, but Gabriel tells him to go his way, he basically tells him it will take future events coming to pass in order for people to understand these prophetic uttering's. At the time of the end these prophesies will start to become clear via our understandings of history and via the word of God. He then tells Daniel many shall be purified and made white (Jesus' blood) and tried, but the wicked will still do wickedness and will never understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

This is of course the end time Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Jesus and Daniel here in in this book of Daniel in several places. This is being spoken of as an event that happens 1290 days from the end of these wonders or prophesies. So just like its 1260 days from the time the Jews flee Judea until the end of all these prophesies, likewise its 1290 days from the time the Abomination of Desolation is set up until the end or until what we now know is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ which will fulfill all prophetic uttering's. The wonders will then cease. The Abomination of Desolation has to come before the Jews flee Judea, thus the 1290 event must come before the 1260 event. Thus the 1335 event would have to come before both the 1260 and the 1290 events. Its just mathematical logistics.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Gabriel is telling Daniel things he knows he will never understand in his lifetime. But Gabriel understands that Israel will reject Jesus the Messiah, he understands they will be dispersed all over the world and that God will turn His back on Israel for almost 2000 years. He understands that even when God starts blessing Israel again (1948) they still do not believe in God/Jesus as their Messiah. Then Gabriel (My Understanding) tells Daniel blessed is he that comes to the 1335 days. Meaning in my understanding, that is the day Israel turns back to God and accepts their Messiah Jesus Christ. (1335 days before Jesus returns). This is why they know to flee Judea when they see the Abomination of Desolation. This is why they know to flee to Petra. This is why they understand who the Anti-Christ is when they see the events unfolding. Israel have repented before the Day of the Lord comes just like Malachi 4:5-6 says they will do. God sends Elijah to turn Israel back unto God before the Great a Dreadful Day of the Lord comes.

Then Daniel is told he will stand with the Saints at the end.

I hope everyone enjoys this. I spent a lot of time on this, watching a lot of videos on Youtube, researching Wikipedia, and history. I have no problem understanding Daniel chapter 11 now, I went ahead and added Daniel ch. 12 because I believe they both are one and the same vision.


Gpp-timeoverlap_small.gif

Everything this Image says on it is wrong !! But the Graphics depict the Events as happening in the time-frame I see them happening in, thus everyone can understand my point of view.

Substitute this below for whats in the time-lines above !!

1.) 1335 Days from the time Israel repents until Jesus' Second Coming.

2.) 1290 Days from the Abomination of Desolation until Jesus' Second Coming.

3.) 1260 Days from the time Israel flees Judea until the Jesus' Second Coming.

Also, I see the Day of the Lord as 3.5 years not as this shows.
 
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Anto9us

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22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

The High Priest (prince of the covenant) was replaced via a conspiracy involving the high priests brother and Antiochus Epiphanes but his brother was also double crossed when another priest bribed Antiochus Epiphanes with even more money, it seems he was for sale at all times for a price.
 
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Revealing Times

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would that be Onias?
Yes, as long as you mean Onias III (Third). He was a pious and honest man. His brother Joshua or Jesus (Yeshua) bribed Antiochus Epiphanes and he was appointed the High Priest, he was also for the Hellenization of Jerusalem/Israel whereas Onias III was against it. Joshua changed his name to Jason (I guess he Hellenized his name so to speak) and was given permission by Antiochus Epiphanes to build a Gymnasium, where they came and admired each others male bodies with no clothes on..... The name comes from the Ancient Greek term gymnós meaning "naked". (Weirdos LOL)

My source material is three fold here, mostly coming from this Jewish learning site about "Antiochus the Madman" ) Antiochus the Madman | My Jewish Learning

I also have a Wikipedia link to Onias III ) Onias III - Wikipedia

Then I have a Wikipedia on Jason (Joshua/Jesus) brother of Onias III Jason (high priest) - Wikipedia

This below is from the latter and is the most helpful, though the first story has much more detail:

Jason (Hebrew: Yason, יאסון) of the Oniad family, brother to Onias III, was a High Priest in the Temple in Jerusalem. Josephus records that his name, before he hellenised it, was originally Jesus (Hebrew יֵשׁוּעַ Yēshua`).

Jason became high priest in 175 BCE after the accession of Antiochus Epiphanes to the throne of the Seleucid Empire.

In an ongoing dispute between the current High Priest, Onias III, and Simon the Benjamite, Jason offered to pay Antiochus in order to be confirmed as the new High Priest in Jerusalem. Antiochus accepted the offer and further allowed Jason to build a gymnasium in Jerusalem and create a Greek-style Polis named after the king, Antioch

With the creation of Antioch, Jason abandoned the ordinances given under Antiochus III, which defined the polity of the Judeans according to the Torah.

Jason's time as High Priest was brought to an abrupt end in 171 BCE when he sent Menelaus, the brother of Simon the Benjamite, to deliver money to Antiochus. Menelaus took this opportunity to "outbid" Jason for the priesthood, resulting in Antiochus confirming Menelaus as the High Priest. Jason fled Jerusalem and found refuge in the land of the Ammonites.

In 168 BCE Jason made a failed attempt to regain control of Jerusalem. Fleeing again to Ammon, he then continued to Egypt, then finally to Sparta, where he died and was buried .



a very in-depth look at Daniel 11-12, thx RT

You are most welcome sir.
 
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Anto9us

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30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved,

Here I think ships of Chittim (or Kittim) is Roman naval forces...

Yes - Onias III was who I meant
 
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Revealing Times

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And incorrect interpretation, of course.
That was an enthralling post sir. Now lets see your rendition of what Daniel chapter 11 means. I doubt I will agree with it because I haven't seen a post you posted yet that I do agree with, but in the spirit of brotherhood and since I do not usually try to overpower my own threads by limiting the conversation have at it.
 
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TribulationSigns

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That was an enthralling post sir. Now lets see your rendition of what Daniel chapter 11 means.

I do not have time to write commentary on chapter 11 and 12. But generally, these chapters has nothing to do with popular theories like Antiichus Epiphanes, future antichrist, the physical temple, or national Israel, etc. etc.

The sacrifice and offering are taken away in the midst of the prophetic week. The last week of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9. God was talking about His sanctuary or congregation, in this case, the new testament congregation, prior to Second Coming, made desolate because of her abominations with false christs and prophets.
 
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Revealing Times

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I do not have time to write commentary on chapter 11 and 12. But generally, these chapters has nothing to do with popular theories like Antiichus Epiphanes, future antichrist, the physical temple, or national Israel, etc. etc.

The sacrifice and offering are taken away in the midst of the prophetic week. The last week of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9. God was talking about His sanctuary or congregation, in this case, the new testament congregation, prior to Second Coming, made desolate because of her abominations with false christs and prophets.
Which shows you didn't read the post I guess because from Daniel 11:35 through Daniel 12:12 is about the Anti-Christ/Beast/Little Horn.

But the other passages are not. Its God showing everyone what would come to pass with the Grecian Empire from the beginning to the end as only God can do. Its an astonishing prophecy in actuality.

Thanks for the reply.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Which shows you didn't read the post I guess because from Daniel 11:35 through Daniel 12:12 is about the Anti-Christ/Beast/Little Horn.

I did. It is just that you are interpreting these with a carnal mind based on world history, not biblical history based on comparing Scripture with Scripture.

But the other passages or not. Its God showing everyone what would come to pass with the Grecian Empire from the beginning to the end as only God can do. Its an astonishing prophecy in actuality.

And I know that the Scripture did not talk about Grecian empire here. Again, carnal mind.
 
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Revealing Times

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I did. It is just that you are interpreting these with a carnal mind based on world history, not biblical history based on comparing Scripture with Scripture.
I don't think you know what I am talking about to be honest.
 
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Anto9us

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Daniel's prophecies are absolutley astonishing in this one regard -- even though scholars question the date/authorship of Daniel - many of them saying it was written C 167 BC in times of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, the 70 weeks prophecy shows that

EVEN IF DANIEL WAS WRITTEN AT THE 'LATE DATE"

you still have a prophecy at least two hunnerd yeers prior to Christ's death

as far as we know, almost right on the nose from the Nehemiah 2 declaration about going to rebuild walls of Jerusalem (444-445 BC)

Onias III was murdered, he is a TYPE of the Messiah, an ANOINTED ONE, but not THE Messiah

I do not hold to the 'late date' of Daniel -- for in Daniel we have an incredible predictive prophecy of Messiah being CUT OFF after 69 weeks of years

if the late date IS true -- you have a whale of an accurate prophecy smack dab in the period between Malachi and John the Baptist

it is generally held that after Malachi -- prophetic word CEASED -- and then John the Baptist appeared right b4 Christ's ministry began

if late date of Daniel is true -- then you have the most accurate pin-point prophecy of Messiah's death right in the middle of this "famine for the word of God" from Malachi to John the Baptist
 
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DavidPT

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The sacrifice and offering are taken away in the midst of the prophetic week. The last week of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9. God was talking about His sanctuary or congregation, in this case, the new testament congregation, prior to Second Coming, made desolate because of her abominations with false christs and prophets.


I agree with this part anyway.

And speaking of Daniel 11.

Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Verse 33 seems to be referring to the following in Luke 21.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Assuming a connection, according to the context in Daniel 11:32-35, that has nothing to do with events connected to 70 AD. The same has to apply to Luke 21:24 then.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 11:2 seems to be referring to Luke 21:24----and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Nothing in Revelation 11 seems to be specifically in regards to any of the events connected with 70 AD.

To interpret any or all of the above in a wooden nickle literal sense, is to misinterpret the prophecies altogether IMO.
 
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Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Verse 33 seems to be referring to the following in Luke 21.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Assuming a connection, according to the context in Daniel 11:32-35, that has nothing to do with events connected to 70 AD. The same has to apply to Luke 21:24 then.

Good job, DavidPT, on "comparing Scripture with Scripture!" to know what God ACTUALLY talked about.

As with Old Covenant Israel, so with New! The pollution of God's sanctuary "IS" the abomination that makes desolate. And the wicked in the external Covenant Church, the professed christians, shall be deceived and worship the image of the beast. Because the unfaithful in the Church are praised and flattered and spoken favorably of, so that man's word, like Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, etc. is vaunted to the position of God's Word. For example, God's word of "thou shalt not" becomes man's word of, "Thou can." See? And this is why the professed Christians are ultimately cut off so they couldn't "recognize" the true Christ. That is why God talked about them in Revelation 11:2 that you quoted, that they are part of the "court which is WITHOUT the temple (Christ) leave out, and measured it not (no correction by God), and given unto the Gentiles (heathen false prophets and christs) to be deceived. When God judges this way, He allows His Holy city to be tread underfoot for his purpose.

Revelation 11:2 seems to be referring to Luke 21:24----and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Right, but many people misunderstood that Jersualem must be a physical city and the Gentiles are some countries outside national Israel. This is NOT what God talked about. He sees Jerusalem type as CHURCH, where the enemies are polluting the Word of God with their own man-made doctrines, until the times of their rule is finished. Then Christ will return. [/quote]

Nothing in Revelation 11 seems to be specifically in regards to any of the events connected with 70 AD.

Amen.

To interpret any or all of the above in a wooden nickle literal sense, is to misinterpret the prophecies altogether IMO.

Indeed!
 
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Revealing Times

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Daniel's prophecies are absolutley astonishing in this one regard -- even though scholars question the date/authorship of Daniel - many of them saying it was written C 167 BC in times of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, the 70 weeks prophecy shows that

EVEN IF DANIEL WAS WRITTEN AT THE 'LATE DATE"

you still have a prophecy at least two hunnerd yeers prior to Christ's death

as far as we know, almost right on the nose from the Nehemiah 2 declaration about going to rebuild walls of Jerusalem (444-445 BC)

Onias III was murdered, he is a TYPE of the Messiah, an ANOINTED ONE, but not THE Messiah

I do not hold to the 'late date' of Daniel -- for in Daniel we have an incredible predictive prophecy of Messiah being CUT OFF after 69 weeks of years

if the late date IS true -- you have a whale of an accurate prophecy smack dab in the period between Malachi and John the Baptist

it is generally held that after Malachi -- prophetic word CEASED -- and then John the Baptist appeared right b4 Christ's ministry began

if late date of Daniel is true -- then you have the most accurate pin-point prophecy of Messiah's death right in the middle of this "famine for the word of God" from Malachi to John the Baptist
True that.......but we know why they make those claims, the prophesies of Daniel prove God exists and they are not of God.
 
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DavidPT

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I hope everyone enjoys this. I spent a lot of time on this, watching a lot of videos on Youtube, researching Wikipedia, and history. I have no problem understanding Daniel chapter 11 now, I went ahead and added Daniel ch. 12 because I believe they both are one and the same vision.

And this was part of your problem, you put too much trust in all these other sources rather than simply examining the text yourself, like I did per the following.

The following are my observations then.


Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Who is meant here?

Daniel 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

As to who is meant in verse 45, verse 36 answers that. It is the king in verse 36. What king?

Daniel 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Obviously the king meant in verse 36 is one of these two kings in verse 27.

26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.
25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Now we have the two kings in verse 27 indentified. One is the king of the south, verse 25. The other one is obviously the vile person, verse 21.

So now we need to determine which of these two kings is meant verse in 36.

If we look at verse 40----And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him. This tells us the king meant in verse 36 is not the king of the south. The text indicates the king of the south is pushing at the king meant in verse 36. Verse 40 goes on to say---and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Apparently meaning the king meant in verse 36, thus the king meant in verse 36 is the king of the north.


Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him(the king of the north): and the king of the north shall come against him(the king of the south) like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he(the king of the north) shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He(the king of the north) shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his(the king of the north) hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He(the king of the north) shall stretch forth his(the king of the north) hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he(the king of the north) shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his(the king of the north) steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him(the king of the north): therefore he(the king of the north) shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he(the king of the north) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he(the king of the north) shall come to his(the king of the north) end, and none shall help him(the king of the north).

Here's what we know then from the above. The king meant in verse 36 is the king of the north, and that this is the vile person in verse 21. Therefore making a portion of your interpretation unlikely. Because the person in verse 45 that comes to his end, and none shall help him, this is this same vile person in verse 21.
 
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Revealing Times

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And this was part of your problem, you put too much trust in all these other sources rather than simply examining the text yourself, like I did per the following.
Of course this assumption would be incorrect because I put forth that starting in verse 36 everything that follows or until Dan. 12:12 is eschatology (at the time it was written almost all of it was eschatology of course, but everything before verse 36 has come to pass already.)

So its via Bible study and prayer that I come to all conclusions from Dan. 11:36 on in my OP. Now you are allowed to differ, but I think my argument will win the day, that is why I placed it in the post.

The following are my observations then.

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Who is meant here?

We shall see what you have to say.........Yippee. I think with a quick browse I already see where you made a WRONG TURN, but I will read in full before citing my opinions.

As to who is meant in verse 45, verse 36 answers that. It is the king in verse 36. What king?

I don't now why you reversed the way the Scriptures are, unless your in China, but it is what it is I guess you thought your "point" would be noticed more. I notice all points or I don't reply, I do not half step. Nevertheless !! Here;s my counter observation:

If you read my post you would know that's exactly what I stated in this QUOTE FROM MY ABOVE ORIGINAL POST just aver verse 40 !! :

"The king of the south will come (push at) against the king of the north. This means the king being mentioned in verse 36 is the King of the North. I think the reason it was not mentioned there is Gabriel/God did not want to confuse us as to that king still being a pat of the Syrian Wars, we have moved on unto the end times. Now that Gabriel has made that clear in verse 36 he needs to describe these kings as per who they are again. The king of the north was of the Syrian part of the Greek Empire which of course eventually became a part of the Roman Empire (Fourth Beast)."

Now as per to to WHAT KING, lets look at it: But I already know where you are going and you are of course incorrect.

Obviously the king meant in verse 36 is one of these two kings in verse 27.

No it is not, its obvious you do not understand Dan. ch. 11, and not any people do. You have to be careful not to let singular verses persuade you without backing it up, here a little there a little. For instance, in verses 5 and 6 we could tale this to be END TIMES if we did not follow all of the pertinent clues available, because it clearly states, "in the end of years"....... But of course its speaking about a SPECIFIC KINGS Years in this instance !!

5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.

6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

So the total clues must be taken into account in EACH INSTANCE and this is where you run off the tracks a wee bit. Of course I image (no proof, just an assumption) that you are one of those that believe erroneously that the Abomination of Desolation was of Antiochus Epiphanes and you fell you must "PROTECT THAT THOUGHT PROCESS" to the nth degree, even though its not the Abomination of Desolation Jesus was speaking about. This your equilibrium is thrown off by a previous bias, and that's a blind spot my brother.

So NO, its not obvious that the King in verse 36 is the King in verse 27 because it is not a fact at all, it a bogus assumption with no facts to back it up !!

You take a single verse and without using all the clues you think is END TIME because of it speaking about the end of their Kingdoms !!

27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed (SEE VS. 29).

Neither one succeeded in defeating or ensnaring the other King in his "TRAP". Both dealt deceitfully with EACH OTHER, but it shall NOT PROSPER meaning neither King shall defeat the other king at that point in time, the end shall be at the time appointed (or in other words the end will go the way God as intended it to go in both of THEIR KINGDOMS, not via the design of their hearts. Just like in verse 6 it has nothing to do with the END TIMES !!

And which way did it eventually go brother? The Alexandrians appointed Ptolemy the VII thus it went according to Gods plan, not Antiochus Epiphanes plan nor Ptolemy the VI plan came to pass, as I showed above.........SEE BELOW NOW:

Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course made king of Egypt by the Alexandrians who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer.

Now lets revisit a couple more points I made above to DRIVE THIS POINT HOME !! Lets look at ALL THE CLUES not just a singular verse with "FOR YET THE END SHALL BE AT THE TIME APPOINTED ." Antiochus returned to Jerusalem and then to his homeland before returning to Egypt, so the end of both of the Kings involved in lying to each other was not at that PRESENT TIME, the end of both would be LATER ON, at a time appointed by God. Antiochus LEFT EGYPT, SEE BELOW:

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)

29 At the time appointed ( GET IT NOW? ) he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexanderia. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and he seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in some of his mannerisms.

So your whole...... "for yet the end shall be at the time appointed" has been misconstrued by you and of course many others because you do not put ALL OF THE CLUES together !! Then you seemingly can't take correction well either. Its your way or the highway. What it bout it being Gods Way brother, and the facts is all that matters? Here a little, there a little, line upon line.

See vs 29 where it says AT THE TIME APPOINTED he shall return? This is Daniel saying God has an appointed ending for Antiochus. Its about the END OF HIS KINGDOM, not the END TIMES !! Case solved, clues used accordingly.

Now we have the two kings in verse 27 indentified. One is the king of the south, verse 25. The other one is obviously the vile person, verse 21.

So now we need to determine which of these two kings is meant verse in 36.


No we do not, because Antiochis Epiphanes will not be alive when verse 35 comes to pass. Antiochus was a VILE PERSON, but he was not the coming Anti-Christ, just a forerunner of sorts.

If we look at verse 40----And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him. This tells us the king meant in verse 36 is not the king of the south. The text indicates the king of the south is pushing at the king meant in verse 36. Verse 40 goes on to say---and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Apparently meaning the king meant in verse 36, thus the king meant in verse 36 is the king of the north.

And I stated that in my OP. I have a felling you replied without actually reading the OP. Bit of course the King of the North in Verse 36 is the coming Anti-Christ, not Antiochus Epiphanes as I have proven above. You just have your wires crossed a wee bit.

This King of the North comes from the E.U. this he pushes South, East and towards Israel. hes born in Greece and come to power in the E.U. from Turkish parents or grandparents. (Assyrian) Why does God give me these things? Why does H give things to any man? Its His purpose to give unto those of us He chooses and to those who seek truth I suppose.

Here's what we know then from the above. The king meant in verse 36 is the king of the north, and that this is the vile person in verse 21. Therefore making a portion of your interpretation unlikely. Because the person in verse 45 that comes to his end, and none shall help him, this is this same vile person in verse 21.

NO..........watch this !! Here is where Gabriel is speaking about the FUTURE Anti-Christ and the APPOINTED TOME OF THE END !! The King that Arises out of Greece and in the E.U.

After Antiochus, its ALL ROME from there on out until the LAST KING comes forth out of Greece. And thus Gabriel tells us of Israels plight all the way unto the END TIMES !!

33 And they that understand (Paul, Peter, Matthew etc. etc.) among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days (Church Age Saints/Many were Jewish).

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help (Holy Spirit): but many shall cleave to them with flatteries (Satan's LIES). 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white (CHURCH/Saints), even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed

The Church/Jewish Saints will be TRIED, Purged in the fire, made White by Jesus' Holy blood !! All the way unto the END..........Then verse 35 kicks in Brother !!

The END TIME King, the Little Horn, the Anti-Christ, the coming BEAST !!
 
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