Daniel 11 & 12 historically explained step by step.

[Douggg]

Accepting Christ as Lord didn't make Paul, Peter and the early Church beat their swords into plowshares did it? So why would Israel accepting Christ before the Second Coming have anything to do with the 1000 year reign/Messianic Age?

Paul, Peter, and the early Church didn't believe they had entered the messianic age. And futhermore, what makes you even think Paul and Peter even carried swords around as they spread the gospel? Your question (and the point you are trying to make by it) make no sense, whatsoever.

Even you don't have the Jews accepting Jesus until after the two witnesses preach to them - which you have as beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years.

The Jews don't accept Jesus at the beginning of the 7 years. Instead, the Jews embrace the prince who shall come as their messiah and that person is anointed the King of Israel making him the Antichrist. All Kings of united Israel have been anointed by a known prophet and the Jews expect the same of their messiah. The false prophet is in line to anoint the Antichrist as King of Israel.

Israel will be thinking she has entered the messianic age, as described in the old testament. They are not basing their beliefs on the new testament. The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 are the same 7 years following Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39, before the judgement on the heathen who gather their armies to make war on Jesus in Ezekiel 39:17-20.

These passages are related.
Ezekiel 39:17-20 to Revelation 19:17-20.
Daniel 9:27 to Deuteronomy 31:9-13

So when Dan. 9:27 mentions that this Anti-Christ or Little Horn enters into AGREEMENTS (Covenant) WITH MANY, we must understand, this man is a Beast over Israel, but like all the Beasts who came before him, he is a Mediterranean Sea Region Beast, and he will see to control the whole region for strategic purposes of course.

So where verse 8:25 says he destroys the holy people and "MANY BY PEACE" this means Israel and the countries in the surrounding areas of the sea region are all conquered by this tyrant, and he gains his initial advantage by PEACE with the MANY per Dan. 9:27, the AGREEMENTS WITH MANY.

I understand your scenario. But it doesn't consider what the term "the Antichrist" refers to. It doesn't considered "the" covenant spoke of in early parts of Daniel 9 as being the Mt. Sinai covenant. And it doesn't recognize the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant on the 7 year shmita cycle was set by Moses of all future leaders of Israel in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

And it doesn't even make sense to make a peace covenant which Israel would dissarm itself for a 7 year temporary peace.

And the bible doesn't refer to the person as the beast until after he is mortally wounded and come back to life. Making war on the saints for 42 months.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Now who do you think a Jewish prophet would be prophesying about?

in context with verse three I would say all of Gods people at the end of time as they will walk on the ash of the wicked
Galatians 3:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[BABerean2]

This is of course the end time Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Jesus and Daniel here in in this book of Daniel in several places. This is being spoken of as an event that happens 1290 days from the end of these wonders or prophesies. So just like its 1260 days from the time the Jews flee Judea until the end of all these prophesies, likewise its 1290 days from the time the Abomination of Desolation is set up until the end or until what we now know is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ which will fulfill all prophetic uttering's. The wonders will then cease. The Abomination of Desolation has to come before the Jews flee Judea, thus the 1290 event must come before the 1260 event. Thus the 1335 event would have to come before both the 1260 and the 1290 events. Its just mathematical logistics.

No.


Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:

Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.

Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)


Luk 21:5　 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said,　

Luk 21:6　 "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down."　

(Mat 24:2　 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."　)





Luk 21:7　 So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?"　

(Mat 24:3　 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")

(　Mar 13:3　 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately,　

Mar 13:4　 "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?")　





Luk 21:8　 And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them.　

(Mat 24:5　 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.　)



Luk 21:9　 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."

(Mat 24:6　 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.)　



Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution



Luk 21:10　 Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.　

(Mat 24:7　 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.　)



Luk 21:11　 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.　

(Mat 24:7　 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.　)



Luk 21:12　 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake.　

(Mat 24:9　 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.)　(Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)



Luk 21:13　 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony.　

Luk 21:14　 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;　

Luk 21:15　 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.　

Luk 21:16　 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death.　

Luk 21:17　 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake.　

(Mat 24:10　 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.　)



Luk 21:18　 But not a hair of your head shall be lost.　

Luk 21:19　 By your patience possess your souls.　

(Mat 24:13　 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.)　



Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem



Luk 21:20　 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.　

(Mat 24:15　 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),　



Luk 21:21　 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.　

(Mat 24:16　 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.)　



Luk 21:22　 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.　

Luk 21:23　 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.　

(Mat 24:19　 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!　)



Luk 21:24　 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.　
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)


The Coming of the Son of Man



Luk 21:25　 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;　

(Mat 24:29　 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.)　



Luk 21:26　 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.　

Luk 21:27　 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.　

(Mat 24:30　 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.)　



Luk 21:28　 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."　

(Mat 24:33　 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)

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From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.

John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.

The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.

See also when Jesus wept over the city of Jerusalem in Luke 19:41-44. In that passage He also refers to the city being "compassed", which means surrounded. He also says not one stone would be left stacked one upon another. During the year 73 AD the Jewish leader at Masada said the only thing left of Jerusalem was that built by the Romans, which was Fort Antonia. The area now known as "The Temple Mount" is the same size and shape of other Roman forts built during that time. Recently, a Roman amphitheater has been discovered underground at the western wall of the fort.


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[Revealing Times]

in context with verse three I would say all of Gods people at the end of time as they will walk on the ash of the wicked
Galatians 3:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with he facts. Paul is speaking about spiritually all must come to Christ in he EXACT SAME MANNER, by faith. But Israel is still Israel and the Church is still the Church. Now go rad Romans chapters 9-11 and see how many times Paul calls Israel, Israel and the Church us, we.

The Church and Israel are TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES. God deals with Israel after the Rapture. That is what the 70th week is all about.

By that same token above look round brother, there are NO FEMALES or MALES on the earth, we are just PEOPLE............Come on, that's a lie that Satan came up with long ago brother, that's one of his HALF TRUTHS he uses for confusion. So are there still males and females? Yes and there is still Jews and Greeks/Gentiles. But we must all come unto Christ BY FAITH.

 

[Revealing Times]

Paul, Peter, and the early Church didn't believe they had entered the messianic age. And futhermore, what makes you even think Paul and Peter even carried swords around as they spread the gospel? Your question (and the point you are trying to make by it) make no sense, whatsoever.

I believe when they came for Jesus Peter cut the ear off of one of those who came, just saying, do not think they had no weapons sir, that would be a mistake. Israel are no going to accept this man as their King/Messiah, no matter how you try and stretch it, its just not in he scriptures.

Even you don't have the Jews accepting Jesus until after the two witnesses preach to them - which you have as beginning on day 1230 of the 7 years.

Not true, I have the Two-witnesses showing up 75 days before the 1260. (1335 event is BEFORE the 1260.)

The Jews don't accept Jesus at the beginning of the 7 years. Instead, the Jews embrace the prince who shall come as their messiah and that person is anointed the King of Israel making him the Antichrist. All Kings of united Israel have been anointed by a known prophet and the Jews expect the same of their messiah. The false prophet is in line to anoint the Antichrist as King of Israel.

Nowhere in the bible is this stated Douggg, this is just your conjecture right? It doesn't even have any scriptures that even suggest it.

Israel will be thinking she has entered the messianic age, as described in the old testament. They are not basing their beliefs on the new testament. The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 are the same 7 years following Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39, before the judgement on the heathen who gather their armies to make war on Jesus in Ezekiel 39:17-20.

Israel will have accepted Jesus as theor Messiah before this BEAST ever come to Jerusalem.

I understand your scenario. But it doesn't consider what the term "the Antichrist" refers to. It doesn't considered "the" covenant spoke of in early parts of Daniel 9 as being the Mt. Sinai covenant. And it doesn't recognize the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant on the 7 year shmita cycle was set by Moses of all future leaders of Israel in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Covenant means AGREEMENT not HOLY AGREEMENT.....The one sentence/verse that has taken you down this road it seems is Dan. 9:27.

And it doesn't even make sense to make a peace covenant which Israel would dissarm itself for a 7 year temporary peace.

The Church will be GONE....How much hate do the Israel haters have? It will not be kept in check then. There are other factors, there will be, IMHO, so kind of major war (Maybe Israel and Iran who knows) and this MAN will step in and solve ALL OF THE PROBLEMS, then e will DEMAND all of the Arabs and Israel DISARM, and he will be their USA like SUGAR-DADDY PROTECTOR. This will not be a willing thing, it will be forced, they will threaten to cut off trade and travel, etc. etc. If you ever read my translation exegesis of Dan. 9:27 you would know that CONFIRM translates as FORCED via Insolence, a hostile action, look up the Hebrew Word CONFIRMED !!

And the bible doesn't refer to the person as the beast until after he is mortally wounded and come back to life. Making war on the saints for 42 months.

Hes not Mortally Wounded, the FIGURATIVE BEAST IS.

 

[wendyanne]

I will endeavor to explain each step of the multi-faceted prophecy by Daniel in chapters 11 and 12. Its a tedious project to be sure, but I got tired of telling everyone who asked me what Daniel chapter 11 meant and having to tell them it was too complex, so I went to studying and matching each verse with history as best I could. I found Daniel chapter 12 is an extension of Daniel chapter 11, so they kind of go hand and hand. This will be a tad long, but its a valuable thread.

DANIEL CHAPTER 11 & 12 AN EXEGESIS OF SORTS:

Daniel 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.

The first verse in chapter 11 is seemingly a direct continuation of chapter 10. Gabriel is still uttering unto Daniel things to come. Gabriel states that back in the first year of Darius (same year Daniel ch. 9 was given us) that he "stood to confirm and strengthen him". So what does this even mean? Who are the players here? Micheal, Gabriel, Darius and Daniel, so who stood to confirm and strengthen? I proffer that its Darius who is being strengthened by Gabriel and I get that by looking at the next few verses in contextual sequence. It seems Gabriel comes against certain world powers and sometimes strengthens other world powers, according to Gods will. The powers of the spiritual world and their behind the scenes back and forth is indeed fascinating.

2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.

This seems to be the whole history of Persia in one verse, just a filler of history so to speak.

3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.

This of course is about Alexander the great of Grecian lore.

4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

After Alexander the Great died there stood up four Kings in his stead, this is not the norm to say the least. Succession of Kingdoms are usually passed from father to son or some close kin and thus this prophetic uttering was spot on, the Kingdom was divided unto his four Generals.

5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.

The King of the south as mentioned here is of course Ptolemy I (First) this is still speaking about the Greek Empire. The southern most kingdom became very strong and powerful as did the northern kingdom. Basically these two were the "super powers" of the region, while the other two diminished in power. This is the era of the First Syrian War being described.

View attachment 220284
(Inset: Timeline & Map of the Syrian Wars.)

6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

We have moved ahead here to the last part of the Second Syrian War. Ptolemy II, the king of the south, sent his daughter Berenice unto Antiochus II, the king of the north hoping their marriage would bring peace. It however did not work as planned, Antiochus II, Berenice and their son were all murdered by Antiochus II's ex-wife.

7 But out of a branch of her roots (Berenice's brother) shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail: 8 And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north. 9 So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land.

The above describes the Third Syrian War. Ptolemy III, the brother of Berenice invaded the north victoriously. He recovered a number of statues and many valuables and returned them to Egypt. He of course outlived the king of the north by a few years, hence the prophetic uttering in verse 8 comes to pass.

10 But his sons shall be stirred up, and shall assemble a multitude of great forces: and one shall certainly come, and overflow, and pass through: then shall he return, and be stirred up, even to his fortress. 11 And the king of the south shall be moved with choler, and shall come forth and fight with him, even with the king of the north: and he shall set forth a great multitude; but the multitude shall be given into his hand. 12 And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it.

This of course is the Forth Syrian War. Antiochus III tried to invade the south but Ptolemy IV defeated him despite having a lesser army, but this manged to weaken both of them somewhat.

13 For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches. 14 And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall. 15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand. 16 But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

This of course is the Fifth Syrian War. Antiochus III returned some years later with a much larger army and took the land of Israel by force.

17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.

Antiochus III gave his daughter Cleopatra to Ptolemy V for a wife, but she ended up siding with Ptolemy V over her father. Blood is not always thinker than water it seems !!

18 After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him. 19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.

Antiochus III ventured to take more lands, against the will of the Romans. He angered his former ally Macedonian king Philip V also, and was eventually killed in his homeland while plundering a pagan temple.

20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Antiochus III's son Seleucus IV became king and had to raise taxes because Rome was forcing him to have to pay for all his fathers wars, he was soon poisoned to death it seems.

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Antiochus IV then became king, he is called a vile person. He became king via a series of maneuvers which included flattering the king of Pergamum to gain his allegiance and by the death of the heir to the throne.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

The High Priest (prince of the covenant) was replaced via a conspiracy involving the high priests brother and Antiochus Epiphanes but his brother was also double crossed when another priest bribed Antiochus Epiphanes with even more money, it seems he was for sale at all times for a price.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

Antiochus Epiphanes wanted to conquer Egypt in a bad way. He took a "small army" down to Egypt feigning to be their protector of Ptolemy VI who was his nephew. He was of course trying to deceive them whereas he could eventually conquer them. This was seemingly his master-plan.

24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

Antiochus Epiphanes gained Egypt's trust and loyalty via spreading his bounty from his wars amongst the public. He visited Egyptian strongholds to get a better understanding on how to conquer them, he was quite cunning.

25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him. 26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.

This is the Sixth Syrian War. (the last of the lot). This was Antiochus Epiphanes against Ptolemy VI. Antiochus Epiphanes attacked Egypt and prevailed over them and many of the Egyptians were by him and betrayed Ptolemy VI. He was a corrupter of people no doubt, he knew how to divide and conquer.

27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course made king of Egypt by the Alexandrians who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer.

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexanderia. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and he seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in some of his mannerisms.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Antiichus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. 33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Atniochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. So many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so and paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

I think this is referring to the Maccabean Revolt and/or right around that time. It seems we need to look at this prophecy here in segments. A historical segment that has already been fulfilled (Dan. 11:1-35) and an eschatological segment where the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Of course when Daniel received this prophetic uttering none of it had basically come to pass, now all of it has come to pass except for Dan. 11:36-45 and Dan. 12:1-12. So, it seems after verse 35 we can say that we fast forward so to speak into eschatology.

We get the historical lessons via the prophecy of all the Grecian Kingdoms and the Syrian Wars which are detailed unto the nth degree, then Rome became the Fourth Beast and Greece seems to have faded into the background so to speak until the last King/Little Horn arrives, which comes from their lineage. We know this via Daniel chapter 8. We are told of this end time king starting in verse 36 and running unto the end of Daniel chapter 12. Notice in verse 34 and 35 above, it speaks of the time of the end as a yet to be appointed time and states that basically from Antiochus Epiphanes on, there will continue to be persecution and troubles and many who fall will be helped but others will heed the lies of the wicked one or his (flatteries). Some who understand will fall OR BE TRIED and PURGED !! Think of Paul, Peter and the Saints of the Church Age....to make them WHITE (pure), even to the END OF TIME !! Very, very exciting stuff !!

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

The king here has to be the end time Anti-Christ/Beast of Daniel 7:11. He is of course not called the king of the north or south here for a specific reason, the Sixth Syrian War ended the Syrian Wars. Rome came between Greece and Egypt putting a halt to Antiochus Epiphanes plans for good. Rome of course eventually conquered both Egypt and Greece thus becoming the Fourth Beast of the region over Israel.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

This verse insinuates he is an Atheist, and that he takes no heed of the thoughts of women, or it may mean he takes no heed unto an observance of the women's gods, what-soever that might entail. He listens not to women is the inference I take from this, their desires affect him on no wise. Like modern day Muslims, hes oblivious to their thoughts. He then magnifies himself or elevates himself to the equal of God. He of course demands to be worshiped as God.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

This European King who is born in Greece will be a man of war, he rules by brute force. I think the god his fathers knew not will himself, he will of course place an image of himself in the temple of God. Thus he divides the land of Israel and the spoil thereof.

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

The king of the south will come (push at) against the king of the north. This means the king being mentioned in verse 36 is the King of the North. I think the reason it was not mentioned there is Gabriel/God did not want to confuse us as to that king still being a pat of the Syrian Wars, we have moved on unto the end times. Now that Gabriel has made that clear in verse 36 he needs to describe these kings as per who they are again. The king of the north was of the Syrian part of the Greek Empire which of course eventually became a part of the Roman Empire (Fourth Beast). The Egyptian part of the Greek kingdom was the king of the south. I think the king of the south here is more than just Egypt however, my thinking is the king of the south here is all of North Africa along with maybe Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, Qatar Yemen well you all get the point, its those nations who seemingly pushes at or comes against the king of the north or European Union and the Beast.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

The Anti-Christ (King of the North here) enters into the Holy land, and many countries shall be overthrown. I think this infers he conquers Israel and the many nations he entered into peace/security agreements with, I think it will be the king of the south or all the Arab nations I mentioned above plus or minus some here or there more no doubt. Once he conquers Israel and these other nations he becomes the Beast of the region course. But God says Edom, Moab and Ammon will escape out of his hands, these three are just east of Israel. So basically Jordan is not touched, seemingly this is where Israel flees unto and God protects them in this Wilderness for 1260 days.

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

This seems to confirm my understanding above, he conquers all of North Africa and thus hes the Mediterranean Sea Region Beast like all the ones that came before him. (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome) He is the last of the Beasts, he will never pass his kingdom to another thus he is known as the Beast himself, a man.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

We can not know for certain what this verse means, we can of course make an educated guess. The east tidings could mean Iran and Iraq or it could mean China. The north tidings could be Russia. Remember he is the king himself of the European Union thus its natural that if he invaded Israel and a bunch of oil rich nations he might very well get push back from China and Russia, both nations with great prestige and a vested interest in these oil rich nations themselves.

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

The Glorious holy mountain is most certainly Jerusalem. You have the Mediterranean Sea and the Dead Sea on either side of Jerusalem, so that could be what the verse is implying as per the "between the seas". I think we all know tabernacles means dwelling place, thus he will dwell in Jerusalem, seemingly in a grand palace.

View attachment 220285

Daniel 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I think Micheal is the Angel God has chosen to protect Israel at the end times thus he stands up meaning he wields his authority/power at the appointed time. Some think he allows the Anti-Christ to come forth, but I see that as Jesus Christ opening of the Seals in Rev. ch. 6. At this time, at the end times, Daniel is basically told this will be when the resurrections of the Saints will happen. I do not think Daniel is told any specific time as per the resurrections, its just a general timing, "at the end". So at this great time of troubles, Micheal will deliver the Jewish peoples from their despair, I think he delivers them unto Petra in Jordan and protects them for 1260 days. Everyone who makes it to heaven however has to do it via faith !!

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

That was the end of the vision Gabriel gave to Daniel. It spanned from Daniels time on earth, both the Persian and Grecian Empires and all the way to the end of time and the resurrection of the Saints and even tells of a future eternity. Gabriel told Daniel of Babylon and coming Beast systems. It was not easily understood, especially before all of these events came to pass, even now many people still have problems understanding these complex prophesies of God. But Gabriel must have sensed Daniels confusion, thus he seemingly tries to explain it somewhat, thus Dan. ch. 12 is extended a wee bit for Daniel.

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Daniel sees two more "people" besides Gabriel. One is a man clothed in linen on the water, this would seem to me to be Jesus Christ even though Daniel had no concept of exactly who he was it seems. Gabriel or another Angel then asks Jesus how long shall it be until the end of these wonders. I think he sensed Daniels confusion and tried to give him some further understanding.

He then proceeds to swear by Him that lives forever, that when the holy peoples shall be scattered there will be a time, times and a half [time] and everything will have been accomplished, or these wonders will have ceased. Meaning that from the time Israel are scattered or flee Judea until all of these prophesies are fulfilled there will be 1260 days. (time, times and half time) In other words Jesus returns and buttons up all of these prophesies exactly 1260 days after the Israel people flee Judea (are scattered). Daniel then asks for more understanding because he had no clue what he was being told SEE BELOW:

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Daniel begs for more clarity, but Gabriel tells him to go his way, he basically tells him it will take future events coming to pass in order for people to understand these prophetic uttering's. At the time of the end these prophesies will start to become clear via our understandings of history and via the word of God. He then tells Daniel many shall be purified and made white (Jesus' blood) and tried, but the wicked will still do wickedness and will never understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

This is of course the end time Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Jesus and Daniel here in in this book of Daniel in several places. This is being spoken of as an event that happens 1290 days from the end of these wonders or prophesies. So just like its 1260 days from the time the Jews flee Judea until the end of all these prophesies, likewise its 1290 days from the time the Abomination of Desolation is set up until the end or until what we now know is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ which will fulfill all prophetic uttering's. The wonders will then cease. The Abomination of Desolation has to come before the Jews flee Judea, thus the 1290 event must come before the 1260 event. Thus the 1335 event would have to come before both the 1260 and the 1290 events. Its just mathematical logistics.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Gabriel is telling Daniel things he knows he will never understand in his lifetime. But Gabriel understands that Israel will reject Jesus the Messiah, he understands they will be dispersed all over the world and that God will turn His back on Israel for almost 2000 years. He understands that even when God starts blessing Israel again (1948) they still do not believe in God/Jesus as their Messiah. Then Gabriel (My Understanding) tells Daniel blessed is he that comes to the 1335 days. Meaning in my understanding, that is the day Israel turns back to God and accepts their Messiah Jesus Christ. (1335 days before Jesus returns). This is why they know to flee Judea when they see the Abomination of Desolation. This is why they know to flee to Petra. This is why they understand who the Anti-Christ is when they see the events unfolding. Israel have repented before the Day of the Lord comes just like Malachi 4:5-6 says they will do. God sends Elijah to turn Israel back unto God before the Great a Dreadful Day of the Lord comes.

Then Daniel is told he will stand with the Saints at the end.

I hope everyone enjoys this. I spent a lot of time on this, watching a lot of videos on Youtube, researching Wikipedia, and history. I have no problem understanding Daniel chapter 11 now, I went ahead and added Daniel ch. 12 because I believe they both are one and the same vision.


View attachment 220286
Everything this Image says on it is wrong !! But the Graphics depict the Events as happening in the time-frame I see them happening in, thus everyone can understand my point of view.

Substitute this below for whats in the time-lines above !!

1.) 1335 Days from the time Israel repents until Jesus' Second Coming.

2.) 1290 Days from the Abomination of Desolation until Jesus' Second Coming.

3.) 1260 Days from the time Israel flees Judea until the Jesus' Second Coming.

Also, I see the Day of the Lord as 3.5 years not as this shows.

That's very thorough-- great job! What's your thoughts on the rapture???? God Bless

 

[Douggg]

Not true, I have the Two-witnesses showing up 75 days before the 1260. (1335 event is BEFORE the 1260.)

Okay, my mistake. I went back and fixed it.

 

[Douggg]

believe when they came for Jesus Peter cut the ear off of one of those who came, just saying, do not think they had no weapons sir, that would be a mistake. Israel are no going to accept this man as their King/Messiah, no matter how you try and stretch it, its just not in he scriptures.

They had two swords. And Jesus told them not to use them. Plus, it has nothing to do with the end times and the little horn person in Daniel 8 destroying many by peace.

Israel will have accepted Jesus as theor Messiah before this BEAST ever come to Jerusalem.

Before? How far before? I think you have a theory that the person as the beast attacks Jerusalem on day 1260 on the timeline. And the two witnesses beginning their preaching on day 1185. That leaves over 3 years of the first half before then, for Israel to embrace the person as the messiah, and anoint him the King of Israel.

Nowhere in the bible is this stated Douggg, this is just your conjecture right? It doesn't even have any scriptures that even suggest it.

It is in the bible what "the Christ" is. But you don't want to accept it. Christ the King of Israel. "Anti" the prefix is well known as instead of and/or against.

That Moses made it a requirement that all future leaders of Israel to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on the 7 year shmita cycle is in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

And it is in the bible that during the messianic age they will beat their spears into plow shares. And that Israel's known enemy's will be destroyed in Ezekiel 39 right before the 7 years begin.

What is not in the bible is anything about a peace treaty for 7 years.

Hes not Mortally Wounded, the FIGURATIVE BEAST IS.

Revelation 13:12, 13:14
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The Church will be GONE....How much hate do the Israel haters have? It will not be kept in check then. There are other factors, there will be, IMHO, so kind of major war (Maybe Israel and Iran who knows) and this MAN will step in and solve ALL OF THE PROBLEMS, then e will DEMAND all of the Arabs and Israel DISARM, and he will be their USA like SUGAR-DADDY PROTECTOR. This will not be a willing thing, it will be forced, they will threaten to cut off trade and travel, etc. etc. If you ever read my translation exegesis of Dan. 9:27 you would know that CONFIRM translates as FORCED via Insolence, a hostile action, look up the Hebrew Word CONFIRMED !!

Who? Who is going to be threatening Israel, what nation(s)? The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 follow God's destruction of Gog/Magog. Proven so by the Armageddon feast being in Ezekiel 39:17-20. And the Gog feast in Ezekiel 39:4.

Not only will Israel be thinking peace and safety following Gog/Magog, but so will the world, Islam days will be over.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

The Church and Israel are TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES. God deals with Israel after the Rapture. That is what the 70th week is all about.

I have a question for you? Are you Jesuit trained? You are teaching Jesuit theology IE Futurism

amazingdiscoveries.org/RT_encyclopedia_Futurism_Jesuit_Ribera


Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, answered Papacy's call. Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, the man of sin, and the beast of Revelation. He then developed the doctrine of futurism.
His explanation was that the prophecies apply only to a single sinister man who will arise up at the end of time.

IS THIS NOT WHAT YOU ARE TEACHING?

Bible Teaching
The Seventy-Week Prophecy Ends
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Daniel 9:24

Remember that the seventy-week prophecy, which is 490 years, would begin with the command to restore Jerusalem in 457 BC. This means the prophecy ends in AD 34, three and a half years after the death of Jesus. After the death of Jesus, the Jews still had three and a half years to discover their true condition and turn from their sins. The hand of mercy was reached out to the very people that cried, "Crucify Him, crucify Him!"

During this time, the Spirit-filled disciples preached in Jerusalem, resulting in the conversion of many. But the leaders of the nation were bent on destroying this new movement.

In AD 34, Stephen, a Spirit-filled deacon of the apostolic church, was taken to appear before the leaders of Israel. In Acts 7, Stephen appeals to the religious leaders of Israel by tracing the history of the nation and pointing to the guidance of God throughout their history. Finally Stephen reiterates what Jesus already portrayed in the parable of the vineyard.

He points to the fact that they were responsible for the death of the prophets and even the very Messiah! This was too much for the leaders of Israel and they ending up stoning Stephen (Acts 7:51-60), making him the first Christian martyr. Stephen’s death marks the end of the seventy-week prophecy. Israel was no longer the special chosen nation of God. From this very time the gospel went to the Gentiles. Shortly after, Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed in AD 70 by the Roman army.

Remember that in the time of the prophet Daniel the command was given to restore Jerusalem and the temple. God allowed this to happen with the condition that the Jews would turn to Him. Again His protective hand was removed from this nation after the seventy weeks ended since the Jews had not repented and turned from their sins. Now the Gospel goes to the Gentiles with power. But there is an important question. Who is the spiritual head of this new nation of believers? Remember that ancient Israel came out of Jacob. Jacob received the name Israel. Who is the new Israel?

Jesus is the New Israel

IT IS ALL ABOUT JESUS

Israel in Prophecy | The Seventy-Week Prophecy | The Messiah is Cut Off

 

[Revealing Times]

That's very thorough-- great job! What's your thoughts on the rapture???? God Bless

(Thanks).....I will be in Heaven when all of Revelation is taking place (besides Rev. ch. 1-3), and I will return with Jesus Christ on a white horse and the Marriage Supper is the carnage at Armageddon.

 

[Douggg]

I have a question for you? Are you Jesuit trained? You are teaching Jesuit theology IE Futurism

OHC, one of the things I noticed and like about your poster's picture information is you say "I am a historist", not from the standpoint that I agree with the historist position, but it makes it very clear the position you are coming in your posts.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

OHC, one of the things I noticed and like about your poster's picture information is you say "I am a historist", not from the standpoint that I agree with the historist position, but it makes it very clear the position you are coming in your posts.

You were the one that suggest we do it so I did

Thanks your brother in Christ

 

[Revealing Times]

IS THIS NOT WHAT YOU ARE TEACHING?

This question was asked me once: Can a person be a child of God just because they are a direct descendant of Abraham, but have rejected Christ? Isn't Israel and the church one and the same?

So I did a brief study on the Church and Israel in my reply to this person.

No, but you can be a child of Abraham and there is of course a spiritual Abraham and physical Abraham, both can be spoken of in various ways. So when Paul speaks of BLIND ISRAEL, is he speaking of Abraham's descendants or not? You (guy who questioned me of course) just inferred they aren't Israel, but Paul says they are Israel, they are JUST BLIND and will be until the time of the gentiles be fulfilled.

Paul is trying to point something out by using a demonstration, and its not being picked up on by you it seems sir. He is pointing out that Israel has been blinded for an appointed time. Then he speaks about Israels true seed being of the believers linked unto Abraham. Well, OK, we understand this. But where does it say that Israel are not descendants of Abraham, the chosen people of God? Oh, I get it, you think because Paul said not all Israel is Israel that they are not Gods chosen people. But you seemingly missed something right in front of your eyes brother, lets delve into further by breaking down these chapters to see what Paul really meant.


Rom. 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: (as we can see here, they are still Israel in the flesh to Paul, this seems to not be understood by a lot of people.) 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises.....................

We have always understood that not all Jews will go to heaven. Why do you not understand that this is a forgone conclusion brother? Many of Israels kings were wicked and are in hell or will be in hell shortly, so that is not a very revealing thought to be honest. Not all who are born unto the SEED of Abraham are GODS PEOPLE, but those who live by FAITH and OBEY God are His true SEED. That has always been understood, but Israel is still the chosen people of God, and He will call them to repentance before the Day of the Lord, thus ALL ISRAEL will be Saved. This is easily proved. Follow along brother for a brief time here:

As a matter of fact, there is an inference here in Romans 9 that seems to be missed by a lot of people. Paul is speaking of Jacob and he says the elder shall serve the younger. Do you not get that in this very chapter that Paul is telling Israel that God is taking the mantle away from the ELDER (Israel) and making him sever the YOUNGER (GENTILE CHURCH).

Paul talks to the Romans, trying to tell them not to get the big head, thinking that they are special in comparison with the Jewish peoples, for it is Gods will being done, not that the Gentiles are anything special. Then he points out what Hosea says in verse 25:

Rom. 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her (Gentiles/Church) beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved. 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Do you see the erroneous thinking brother? Paul is calling the unbelieving nation of Israel, ISRAEL in verse 31 !! It seems you might be confused as to what Paul is speaking about here, he is speaking about the elder (Israel) serving the younger (Gentile/Church) because God elected them to serve Him, just like he elected Jacob instead of Esau !! Its election to service !!

Rom. 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (Again, Paul calls them Israel.)

Then the next 10 or so verses speaks about Faith in Christ, and then Paul says this in verse 12:

Rom. 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Nowhere is Paul saying that the Jews and the Gentiles/Greeks are the same, only that we all come to Christ Jesus via Faith or in like manner. Paul still called Israel "ISRAEL" in verse one in this very Chapter. In the previous chapter Paul is pointing out that the elder will serve the younger. Israel's mantel has been given unto the Gentiles. Some Jews couldn't understand this to start with.

In the next few verses, Paul speaks about how hearing the word creates faith, and we have to have preachers sent to preach to hear and see, and that whosoever shall call upon the name of Jesus Christ will be saved etc. etc. And then Paul says this:

Rom. 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

This is Paul, saying the mantle has been passed from Israel unto the Gentiles, the elder is serving the younger because God chose it that way, because God saw unbelief in the elder (Israel), and the younger (Gentile Church) believed in God. Thus God will use them to provoke Israel. There it is again, Paul is differentiating the two right here. He is saying that God will use the Gentiles to provoke ISRAEL TO JEALOUSY !!

There is a Gentile Church and an Israeli Nation. Surprise, surprise.

Rom. 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. {Paul is not speaking about the CHURCH HERE!!}

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot (know) ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. {Paul isn't speaking about the CHURCH HERE}

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

Rom. 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

{Paul is speaking about two entities above, the Gentile Church and Israel !! }

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (Israel's fullness...Notice THEM, THEM, THEIR)

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? { Paul is still speaking about Israel in a singular manner vs the gentile world or gentile church. Israel as a nation, not Israel as the Church and the JEWS !! }

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. {THEY/THEM = Israel}

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? {Paul is speaking of two entities again, the Church and Israel, the olive tree is their own olive tree, the Gentiles are the wild olive tree that has been GRAFTED IN.}

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

{ Paul is saying here, hey Gentile/Roman Church, do not get the big head thinking you are better than my fellow Jewish brothers, blindness IN PART has come upon them, only until the fullness of the Gentiles is come in or until the time of the younger (Gentile Church) is finished. There are of course some Messianic Jews and there always has been and always will be, thus Israel is blinded IN PART, but there will come a time when the gentile church's mission is finished. Then God will lift Israels blindness, (Elijah will turn Israel back to God before the Day of the LORD !! Amen) and ALL ISRAEL will be saved. Meaning Israel as a nation turns back to God, and God blesses and protects them, because they accept Jesus as their Messiah and of course Savior !! }

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: { Jacob !!! NOT THE CHURCH. }

27 For this is my covenant unto them (Israel), when I shall take away their sins (Israel). 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies (Israel) for your sakes {Churches sake} but as touching the election, they (Israel) are beloved for the father's sakes.

{ Notice the two entities again in verse 27 here? Its a trend, if people would just take notice, its there. They are/ISRAEL/JACOB and YOUR SAKE = The Gentile Church of Rome, its a plain as day.}

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Via the Gentile Churches mercy, God will thus ultimately have mercy upon Israel. They will remember the Church's teachings, and they will remember that Jesus was the God of the Christians. The Jews will understand that the church stated all of these things would come to pass, and when Paul's writings start coming to pass (Rapture), and when John's book of Revelation comes to pass before their very eyes it will cause them to start searching for the truth again. When the Church is Raptured via 100's of millions of Christians dying all at once they will understand even more. Then Elijah comes back preaching this same Gospel, Christ crucified, and Israel will understand fully the error of their ways, it will hit them like a ton of bricks.........BOOM, Jesus is our Messiah, the scales will be lifted off, and ALL ISRAEL (As a Nation) will be saved or turn to God. Not every Jew, but the Nation as a whole turns to their true Messiah Jesus, thus when he returns they will be saying, "Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord", just like Jesus prophesied.

People taking verses out of context destroys the message. We see Paul speaking throughout Romans chapters 9-11 about the Gentile Church and Israel as separate entities continually, yet some try to force THE CHURCH IS ISRAEL false doctrine onto the world. It is a documented falsehood in my honest opinion, and anyone that studies it just a wee bit will understand that also, I think it happens because are Christians hearing other men's doctrines and not delving into the bible on their own like they should, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little is the correct way to go.

The Church is not Israel.. And Paul never says that, he is only showing how all men must come to God via FAITH ALONE, after all, it is by Faith in Christ Jesus that we are SAVED, not by Works, lest any man should boast.

In verse 27 we see a key point. Israel is BELOVED for the Fathers Sake !!

The Church is Jesus' bride.

Israel is the bride of the Father.

Abraham was accounted as righteous because he believed God. (Promise of the coming SEED.)

The Church is counted as righteous because we believe on Jesus. (THE SEED)

Jesus is God, we both come to God via FAITH ALONE. But Israel and the Church are two different entities, that can not be denied.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

This question was asked me once: Can a person be a child of God just because they are a direct descendant of Abraham, but have rejected Christ? Isn't Israel and the church one and the same?

So I did a brief study on the Church and Israel in my reply to this person.

No, but you can be a child of Abraham and there is of course a spiritual Abraham and physical Abraham, both can be spoken of in various ways. So when Paul speaks of BLIND ISRAEL, is he speaking of Abraham's descendants or not? You (guy who questioned me of course) just inferred they aren't Israel, but Paul says they are Israel, they are JUST BLIND and will be until the time of the gentiles be fulfilled.

Paul is trying to point something out by using a demonstration, and its not being picked up on by you it seems sir. He is pointing out that Israel has been blinded for an appointed time. Then he speaks about Israels true seed being of the believers linked unto Abraham. Well, OK, we understand this. But where does it say that Israel are not descendants of Abraham, the chosen people of God? Oh, I get it, you think because Paul said not all Israel is Israel that they are not Gods chosen people. But you seemingly missed something right in front of your eyes brother, lets delve into further by breaking down these chapters to see what Paul really meant.


Rom. 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: (as we can see here, they are still Israel in the flesh to Paul, this seems to not be understood by a lot of people.) 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises.....................

We have always understood that not all Jews will go to heaven. Why do you not understand that this is a forgone conclusion brother? Many of Israels kings were wicked and are in hell or will be in hell shortly, so that is not a very revealing thought to be honest. Not all who are born unto the SEED of Abraham are GODS PEOPLE, but those who live by FAITH and OBEY God are His true SEED. That has always been understood, but Israel is still the chosen people of God, and He will call them to repentance before the Day of the Lord, thus ALL ISRAEL will be Saved. This is easily proved. Follow along brother for a brief time here:

As a matter of fact, there is an inference here in Romans 9 that seems to be missed by a lot of people. Paul is speaking of Jacob and he says the elder shall serve the younger. Do you not get that in this very chapter that Paul is telling Israel that God is taking the mantle away from the ELDER (Israel) and making him sever the YOUNGER (GENTILE CHURCH).

Paul talks to the Romans, trying to tell them not to get the big head, thinking that they are special in comparison with the Jewish peoples, for it is Gods will being done, not that the Gentiles are anything special. Then he points out what Hosea says in verse 25:

Rom. 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her (Gentiles/Church) beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved. 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Do you see the erroneous thinking brother? Paul is calling the unbelieving nation of Israel, ISRAEL in verse 31 !! It seems you might be confused as to what Paul is speaking about here, he is speaking about the elder (Israel) serving the younger (Gentile/Church) because God elected them to serve Him, just like he elected Jacob instead of Esau !! Its election to service !!

Rom. 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (Again, Paul calls them Israel.)

Then the next 10 or so verses speaks about Faith in Christ, and then Paul says this in verse 12:

Rom. 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Nowhere is Paul saying that the Jews and the Gentiles/Greeks are the same, only that we all come to Christ Jesus via Faith or in like manner. Paul still called Israel "ISRAEL" in verse one in this very Chapter. In the previous chapter Paul is pointing out that the elder will serve the younger. Israel's mantel has been given unto the Gentiles. Some Jews couldn't understand this to start with.

In the next few verses, Paul speaks about how hearing the word creates faith, and we have to have preachers sent to preach to hear and see, and that whosoever shall call upon the name of Jesus Christ will be saved etc. etc. And then Paul says this:

Rom. 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

This is Paul, saying the mantle has been passed from Israel unto the Gentiles, the elder is serving the younger because God chose it that way, because God saw unbelief in the elder (Israel), and the younger (Gentile Church) believed in God. Thus God will use them to provoke Israel. There it is again, Paul is differentiating the two right here. He is saying that God will use the Gentiles to provoke ISRAEL TO JEALOUSY !!

There is a Gentile Church and an Israeli Nation. Surprise, surprise.

Rom. 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. {Paul is not speaking about the CHURCH HERE!!}

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot (know) ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. {Paul isn't speaking about the CHURCH HERE}

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

Rom. 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

{Paul is speaking about two entities above, the Gentile Church and Israel !! }

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (Israel's fullness...Notice THEM, THEM, THEIR)

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? { Paul is still speaking about Israel in a singular manner vs the gentile world or gentile church. Israel as a nation, not Israel as the Church and the JEWS !! }

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. {THEY/THEM = Israel}

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? {Paul is speaking of two entities again, the Church and Israel, the olive tree is their own olive tree, the Gentiles are the wild olive tree that has been GRAFTED IN.}

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

{ Paul is saying here, hey Gentile/Roman Church, do not get the big head thinking you are better than my fellow Jewish brothers, blindness IN PART has come upon them, only until the fullness of the Gentiles is come in or until the time of the younger (Gentile Church) is finished. There are of course some Messianic Jews and there always has been and always will be, thus Israel is blinded IN PART, but there will come a time when the gentile church's mission is finished. Then God will lift Israels blindness, (Elijah will turn Israel back to God before the Day of the LORD !! Amen) and ALL ISRAEL will be saved. Meaning Israel as a nation turns back to God, and God blesses and protects them, because they accept Jesus as their Messiah and of course Savior !! }

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: { Jacob !!! NOT THE CHURCH. }

27 For this is my covenant unto them (Israel), when I shall take away their sins (Israel). 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies (Israel) for your sakesChurches sake) but as touching the election, they (Israel) are beloved for the father's sakes.

{ Notice the two entities again in verse 27 here? Its a trend, if people would just take notice, its there. They are/ISRAEL/JACOB and YOUR SAKE = The Gentile Church of Rome, its a plain as day.}

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Via the Gentile Churches mercy, God will thus ultimately have mercy upon Israel. They will remember the Church's teachings, and they will remember that Jesus was the God of the Christians. The Jews will understand that the church stated all of these things would come to pass, and when Paul's writings start coming to pass (Rapture), and when John's book of Revelation comes to pass before their very eyes it will cause them to start searching for the truth again. When the Church is Raptured via 100's of millions of Christians dying all at once they will understand even more. Then Elijah comes back preaching this same Gospel, Christ crucified, and Israel will understand fully the error of their ways, it will hit them like a ton of bricks.........BOOM, Jesus is our Messiah, the scales will be lifted off, and ALL ISRAEL (As a Nation) will be saved or turn to God. Not every Jew, but the Nation as a whole turns to their true Messiah Jesus, thus when he returns they will be saying, "Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord", just like Jesus prophesied.

People taking verses out of context destroys the message. We see Paul speaking throughout Romans chapters 9-11 about the Gentile Church and Israel as separate entities continually, yet some try to force THE CHURCH IS ISRAEL false doctrine onto the world. It is a documented falsehood in my honest opinion, and anyone that studies it just a wee bit will understand that also, I think it happens because are Christians hearing other men's doctrines and not delving into the bible on their own like they should, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little is the correct way to go.

The Church is not Israel.. And Paul never says that, he is only showing how all men must come to God via FAITH ALONE, after all, it is by Faith in Christ Jesus that we are SAVED, not by Works, lest any man should boast.

In verse 27 we see a key point. Israel is BELOVED for the Fathers Sake !!

The Church is Jesus' bride.

Israel is the bride of the Father.

Abraham was accounted as righteous because he believed God. (Promise of the coming SEED.)

The Church is counted as righteous because we believe on Jesus. (THE SEED)

Jesus is God, we both come to God via FAITH ALONE. But Israel and the Church are two different entities, that can not be denied.

I asked a simple question and you did not answer it. Please try again with a simple yes or no answer.

I have a question for you? Are you Jesuit trained? You are teaching Jesuit theology IE Futurism

another question for you simple yes or no answer.

Do you also recognize the pope as the final authority on religious matters?

 

[Revealing Times]

I have a question for you? Are you Jesuit trained? You are teaching Jesuit theology IE Futurism

amazingdiscoveries.org/RT_encyclopedia_Futurism_Jesuit_Ribera

And for you information I teach the Holy Spirit, and He trained me. I see you are a Seven Day Adventists so right off the bat I doubt we will agree on very much, just being honest, I don't pick on other religions or beliefs, but I can tell you I know I do not agree with pretty much anything the SDA believe via my research. But I am not one to call religions out, just letting you know we will not agree on much from the get go.

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, answered Papacy's call. Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, the man of sin, and the beast of Revelation. He then developed the doctrine of futurism.
His explanation was that the prophecies apply only to a single sinister man who will arise up at the end of time.

IS THIS NOT WHAT YOU ARE TEACHING?

What I notice is people who have other ideas try to pigeon hole others by asserting that their beliefs have a certain point in time of origin , which of course is nonsense for the mist part, its just an effort to can the high ground in a debate, but it doesn't work with me because I see right through this like like I see through the 1800's Darby talking points.

The FUTURE PROPHESIES are by NO ONE other than Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and God as brought to us by Daniel, John, Ezekiel and Angels like Gabriel. And the Rapture is also of God and Jesus as brought to us by Paul. I give no ground as per the high ground. So all of you names and gestures, I heed not, I only heed the Holy Spirits voice, the rest is trivial trivialities to me.

I teach what the truth is, and you listen to people who tell you Saturday is the Sabbath and that we are still under the law not grace.

 

[Revealing Times]

I asked a simple question and you did not answer it. Please try again with a simple yes or no answer.

I don't do YES and NO answers. I saw where you was going.

another question for you simple yes or no answer.

Do you also recognize the pope as the final authority on religious matters?

I am a protestant.

Lets not get off the TOPIC as per Daniel chapters 11 & 12. There are other threads to discuss these things in. As long as its related that's OK, but you are venturing way off the path here.

 

[Douggg]

I have a question for you? Are you Jesuit trained? You are teaching Jesuit theology IE Futurism

I will volunteer my answer if your question were asked to me instead. No, I am not Jesuit trained. I am not Catholic. I did not get my eschatology from any particular group or denomination or bible commentator.

 

[Douggg]

I don't do YES and NO answers. I saw where you was going.

Jesuit trained shouldn't be hard for a yes or no. You could always add an explanation to go along with the yes or no response.

You say you are a protestant, but were you once a Catholic?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I teach what the truth is, and you listen to people who tell you Saturday is the Sabbath and that we are still under the law not grace.

Your thread and you brought this up so I will reply.

Yes I do listen to people who say Saturday is the Sabbath one of them is
Jesus
Exodus 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And God spake all these words, saying,
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God

Matthew 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedth out of the mouth of God.

GOD SAID IT I BELIEVE IT

You probable agree that the Sabbath is Saturday as you probable celebrate the resurrection on Easter Sunday, first day of the week. So by your works you agree that the Seventh day Sabbath is Saturday.

Second point of the first quote above,
We are still under the law as it is the character of GOD however we are not under the condemnation of the law due to the Grace of GOD

Matt 4
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Do away with the law there is no sin, if there is no sin then there is no need for a redeemer. Jesus died for no reason then.

The FUTURE PROPHESIES are by NO ONE other than Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and God as brought to us by Daniel, John, Ezekiel and Angels like Gabriel.

Your OP is based on placing a GAP in the prophecy of Daniel that is not there in the Bible. It is an invention of a man named Rebera The last week of the prophecy is about JESUS CHRIST and the GOSPEL not the anti-christ, anti-christ means in place of and that is what the gap theory does. It puts ant-christ (Satan) as the fulfillment of the last week instead of Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimonies: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

I pray that you are not in this category.

 

[Revealing Times]

Jesuit trained shouldn't be hard for a yes or no. You could always add an explanation to go along with the yes or no response.

You say you are a protestant, but were you once a Catholic?

I am a NOTHING, I am a Christian.....We don't go by any big denomination and never have. I really think names are a way for Satan to divide the church. I don't think it germane to the thread, especially since he or she is a Seventh Day Adventist, if he was a Baptist etc. etc. it might be worthy of a discussion, since I already understand that I pretty much don't agree with anything they offer, it would be waste of both of our time to go down that road if you catch my drift, I just don't see the point. Likewise I am not going to ask him about his certain beliefs etc. etc.