LDS Damnation for Refusal to Become Mormon

[He is the way]

Any commandment that you have not kept, Heistheway???

Like everyone else except our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, I have sinned. That is why repentance is so important. It is also very important that after we repent of our sins that we sin no more.

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 2)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[Light of the East]

Like everyone else except our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, I have sinned. That is why repentance is so important. It is also very important that after we repent of our sins that we sin no more.

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 2)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

One of your sins, sir, is to believe not in the Church which the Apostles founded, and the doctrines which they taught, but rather in a religion created in the 19th century. You really should consider that.

 

[Rescued One]

You have asked me personal questions in the past. However, in keeping with the rules, I do not remember anyone who claims to be a Christian here on CF saying we should LOVE Jesus Christ by keeping the commandments. The unrighteous (those who do not keep the commandments will indeed be damned):

(New Testament | 2 Thessalonians 2:12)

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

(New Testament | John 5:29)

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Sin is and will always be evil.

Hell is not the topic of this thread. If it were, I'd provide the LDS definitions for hell.

You are incredibly deceived if you think Christians are not wanting to please Christ. And as often as I tell you, you still don't believe me. Furthermore, I've never heard a Christian or a pastor say that sin isn't evil. OTOH, Mormons have told me multiple times that Adam didn't sin!

Is it only you or is your entire church antagonistic towards non-Mormons?

I apologize for ever having asked you a personal question. I don't even recall the question or whether or not you responded.

 

[dzheremi]

Like everyone else except our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, I have sinned. That is why repentance is so important. It is also very important that after we repent of our sins that we sin no more.

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 2)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Isn't this a little odd in light of Mormon beliefs about the fall of our first parents, which is essentially that we shall sin so that grace may abound?

Don't believe me? Maybe you'll believe your own former prophets, like Joseph Fielding Smith:

It may seem very cruel to us without any understanding of all the circumstances, to know that the Fall brought upon us all such awful consequences, and made it possible for an infinite atonement to be offered to amend the broken law. Adam and Eve did not come here in a mortal state. They had to come in the manner in which they did and then transgress the law. The transgression of that law, contrary to the view of many, was not a sin. It was not a sin any more than the transgression in the laboratory by a chemist in combining two substances and creating another entirely different from the first. It was not a sin to bring to pass mortality, a condition which was essential to the eternal welfare of man. The Fall changed the nature of Adam and Eve to fit them for the condition in which we now are. After the coming of an angel with the plan of salvation informing Adam and Eve of the redemption which was to be made by Jesus Christ, Eve rejoiced and said: " . . . Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient." (Moses 5:11.) (Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols.[1976], 2:214-215)

One of your living leaders, Dallin H. Oaks, even calls the fall "glorious"! Here is the quote:

It was Eve who first transgressed the limits of Eden in order to initiate the conditions of mortality. Her act, whatever its nature, was formally a transgression but eternally a glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life. Adam showed his wisdom by doing the same. And thus Eve and "Adam fell that men might be"

(These quotes and more come from here)

 

[mmksparbud]

It was Eve who first transgressed the limits of Eden in order to initiate the conditions of mortality. Her act, whatever its nature, was formally a transgression but eternally a glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life. Adam showed his wisdom by doing the same. And thus Eve and "Adam fell that men might be"

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[dzheremi]

I agree, but I don't like how that quote function makes it seem like I'm claiming that! Yikes!

 

[He is the way]

The word priest is not used in any of those verses. They knew the word priest. It is a horrible falsehood to try to state apostles, bishops and elders, evangelists, teachers and pastors as priests. If they were to be designated as priests, they would have said so. This is nothing but flat out lying.

If you don't consider the word priests as the word priest then you are right:

(New Testament | Acts 6:7)

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

It is the plural for priest though.

 

[drstevej]

Like everyone else except our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, I have sinned. That is why repentance is so important. It is also very important that after we repent of our sins that we sin no more.

So you have never done the same sin after you have repented the sin on a prior occasion? For example.... LUST.

 

[dzheremi]

I think this line of questioning is becoming inappropriately personal for a public thread. I do not want to read about HITW's personal sins, just as I'm sure they do not want to publicly post about them unless they feel it is God's will that they do so.

Please, drstevej, can you imagine being put in this spot? I don't know about in Mormonism or Protestantism, but in churches which keep sacramental confession, it is usually private for very good and obvious reasons. (The historical exception is the Armenians, for whom the public confession in the liturgy has apparently sufficed, though I think I remember an Armenian once telling me that it is possible to have private confessions with an Armenian priest; from what I have read, it just never developed into the norm like it did with every other church.)

 

[He is the way]

Hell is not the topic of this thread. If it were, I'd provide the LDS definitions for hell.

You are incredibly deceived if you think Christians are not wanting to please Christ. And as often as I tell you, you still don't believe me. Furthermore, I've never heard a Christian or a pastor say that sin isn't evil. OTOH, Mormons have told me multiple times that Adam didn't sin!

Is it only you or is your entire church antagonistic towards non-Mormons?

I apologize for ever having asked you a personal question. I don't even recall the question or whether or not you responded.

I don't see " the resurrection of damnation" as being Hell. To me damnation is being stopped from progression as is the topic of this thread, Damnation for refusal to become Mormon. The way I see it spirits were damned for disobedience. If I come across as antagonistic, I apologize. It is not my intent. My intent is to teach people just how important it is to strive to keep the commandments so they can reap the blessings from so doing. It is the best way of not becoming damned.

 

[He is the way]

So you have never done the same sin after you have repented the sin on a prior occasion? For example.... LUST.

It is important that we should not willfully commit the same sin once we have the knowledge of the truth:

(New Testament | Hebrews 10:26)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

That is why it is so important to strive to keep the commandments. Lust is not LOVE and should be avoided at all cost.

 

[Rescued One]

I think this line of questioning is becoming inappropriately personal for a public thread. I do not want to read about HITW's personal sins, just as I'm sure they do not want to publicly post about them unless they feel it is God's will that they do so.

Please, drstevej, can you imagine being put in this spot? I don't know about in Mormonism or Protestantism, but in churches which keep sacramental confession, it is usually private for very good and obvious reasons. (The historical exception is the Armenians, for whom the public confession in the liturgy has apparently sufficed, though I think I remember an Armenian once telling me that it is possible to have private confessions with an Armenian priest; from what I have read, it just never developed into the norm like it did with every other church.)

I don't want people to even ask me what good I do or how often. It is all by the grace of God; I don't do it for the praise of men or to receive a reward from God. Anything I do is my Christian duty and I am not deserving of God's most precious mercy.

 

[Rescued One]

It is important that we should not willfully commit the same sin once we have the knowledge of the truth:

(New Testament | Hebrews 10:26)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

That is why it is so important to strive to keep the commandments. Lust is not LOVE and should be avoided at all cost.

If you say "we," you are speaking of Mormons. Mormons and Christians are not siblings. Mormons teach we will be segregated in eternity unless all non-Mormons accept your baptisms, your apostles and prophets, your ordinances and commandments.

You shy away from discussing Mormonism and don't answer most questions. You're wasting our time.

Mormon commandments:

1. We must be baptized.
2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter-day Saints) and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
4. We must receive the temple endowment.
5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.
6. Love God and our neighbors.
7. Keep the commandments.
8. Repent of our wrongdoings.
9. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
10. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
11. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
12. Have family and individual prayers every day.
13. Study the scriptures.
14. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.
Gospel Principles, c. 1978, 1979, and 1981, Chapter 47, Exaltation, p. 291-292

Commandments not mentioned:

Pay a full tithe plus live the "law of sacrifice."
Accept callings from the Bishop as if they came from God.

 

[He is the way]

If you say "we," you are speaking of Mormons. Mormons and Christians are not siblings. Mormons teach we will be segregated in eternity unless all non-Mormons accept your baptisms, your apostles and prophets, your ordinances and commandments.

You shy away from discussing Mormonism and don't answer most questions. You're wasting our time.

Mormon commandments:

1. We must be baptized.
2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter-day Saints) and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
4. We must receive the temple endowment.
5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.
6. Love God and our neighbors.
7. Keep the commandments.
8. Repent of our wrongdoings.
9. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
10. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
11. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
12. Have family and individual prayers every day.
13. Study the scriptures.
14. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.
Gospel Principles, c. 1978, 1979, and 1981, Chapter 47, Exaltation, p. 291-292

Commandments not mentioned:

Pay a full tithe plus live the "law of sacrifice."
Accept callings from the Bishop as if they came from God.

I say "we" because the scripture I posted Hebrews 10:26 is for all of God's children. No one is immune to God's word. You listed some of the things we do, but not all of them. We also fast once a month and pay fast offerings. We give blessings those who are sick. We clean church buildings and volunteer for welfare assignments. We help out in disasters. We also provide food and service to places that feed the homeless such as St. Vincent de Paul Dining Hall / Weigand Homeless Resource Center. We also do interfaith service:

"Members around the world have responded commendably to the call to serve shoulder to shoulder with members of other organizations. I have been touched by accounts of LDS wards growing community gardens, holding interfaith conferences on moral values, and doing community cleanups with other congregations."

From: Becoming Better Saints through Interfaith Involvement

 

[mmksparbud]

I agree, but I don't like how that quote function makes it seem like I'm claiming that! Yikes!

Oh--sorry! It's this
Dallin H. Oaks Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

It was Eve who first transgressed the limits of Eden in order to initiate the conditions of mortality. Her act, whatever its nature, was formally a transgression but eternally a glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life. Adam showed his wisdom by doing the same. And thus Eve and "Adam fell that men might be" (v. 25).

Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve's act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall (see Bruce R. McConkie, "Eve and the Fall," in Woman [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1979], pp. 67-68). Joseph Smith taught that it was not a "sin" because God had decreed it (see The Words of Joseph Smith, ed. Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook [Provo: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1980], p. 63). Brigham Young declared, "We should never blame Mother Eve, not the least" (in Journal of Discourses, 13:145). Elder Joseph Fielding Smith said: "I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin. . . . This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin . . . for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!" (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954-56], 1:114-15).

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[mmksparbud]

If you don't consider the word priests as the word priest then you are right:

(New Testament | Acts 6:7)

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

It is the plural of priest though.

They could not have continued AS PRIESTS!! There was to be no more SACRFICIAL animals after the death of Jesus!! There certainly could not be a Christian High Priest in the temple, Hebrews plainly states this! All rituals pointing to the death of Christ would be null and void and no CHRISTIAN JEWISH PRIEST COULD HAVE EXISTED AFTER HIS DEATH!

 

[He is the way]

Oh--sorry! It's this
Dallin H. Oaks Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

It was Eve who first transgressed the limits of Eden in order to initiate the conditions of mortality. Her act, whatever its nature, was formally a transgression but eternally a glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life. Adam showed his wisdom by doing the same. And thus Eve and "Adam fell that men might be" (v. 25).

Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve's act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall (see Bruce R. McConkie, "Eve and the Fall," in Woman [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1979], pp. 67-68). Joseph Smith taught that it was not a "sin" because God had decreed it (see The Words of Joseph Smith, ed. Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook [Provo: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1980], p. 63). Brigham Young declared, "We should never blame Mother Eve, not the least" (in Journal of Discourses, 13:145). Elder Joseph Fielding Smith said: "I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin. . . . This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin . . . for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!" (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954-56], 1:114-15).

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

This is what God said:
(Old Testament | Genesis 2:16 - 17)

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

There is nothing there about doing evil will cause death, it is about the eating of the fruit that will cause death.

 

[mmksparbud]

This is what God said:
(Old Testament | Genesis 2:16 - 17)

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

There is nothing there about doing evil will cause death, it is about the eating of the fruit that will cause death.

Yah--it's called willful disobedience to a direct command from God! He told them what would happen is they did--they did---it happened. And BTW--the word for day in Gen 1 is different from the word for day in Gen2. Day in Gen 1 is 24 hour--day in Gen 2 is age--eon. It's Yom and beyom.

 

[He is the way]

They could not have continued AS PRIESTS!! There was to be no more SACRFICIAL animals after the death of Jesus!! There certainly could not be a Christian High Priest in the temple, Hebrews plainly states this! All rituals pointing to the death of Christ would be null and void and no CHRISTIAN JEWISH PRIEST COULD HAVE EXISTED AFTER HIS DEATH!

Yes there are priests that serve God, but not in sacrificing animals.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes there are priests that serve God, but not in sacrificing animals.

They were no longer Jewish priests---that was a part of their duties. And scriptures clearly states ALL BELIEVERS --are priests and kings! Not just a select few.