CRT and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion

[Ana the Ist]

Is this CRT?

An esteemed Rutgers professor shares her lofty views on race.

Warning: One half-bleeped out word of profanity

She's a gender and Africana studies professor....given her views are as hostile towards whites as the typical adherent, she's probably up to her eyeballs in CRT.

 

[MehGuy]

you mean a disparity like the number of circle cell anemia cases in African Americans?

Come on... you know that is not what I'm asking.

why not? You've already admitted you know practically nothing about so why would you reject it without knowing it?

I don't flat out reject it, I'm more wary of it.

if you know next to nothing about it how can you say that CRT starts with the conclusion much less that it demands we find evidence for it?

What? I am simply saying I've heard from detractors that this is what CRT teaches. I've asked you if it does and so far you've not given me a serious answer.

i never sympathize with ignorance

And let's hope CRT doesn't promote it.

and yet you are lazy when it comes to CRT

Yeah, I don't have the patience to dive into everything. Especially when I judge it to probably be a waste of time. Given the people who defend CRT, and those refusing to even answer simple questions about it.

 

[bekkilyn]

So far I've seen CRT detractors posts a great deal of information about it and are willing to educate others to their views, but I haven't seen any such willingness of CRT supporters, and I have to wonder if it's because they *cannot* actually refute the information that has been posted. And when 6-year-old girls come home from school asking their parents if they are evil because they are white, then I would find it concerning and wonder if CRT is *promoting* such views and if not, then how is CRT *discouraging* these views so that ALL people in the U.S. are united as *Americans*?

 

[TLK Valentine]

So far I've seen CRT detractors posts a great deal of information about it and are willing to educate others to their views, but I haven't seen any such willingness of CRT supporters, and I have to wonder if it's because they *cannot* actually refute the information that has been posted. And when 6-year-old girls come home from school asking their parents if they are evil because they are white, then I would find it concerning and wonder if CRT is *promoting* such views and if not, then how is CRT *discouraging* these views so that ALL people in the U.S. are united as *Americans*?

Speaking only for myself, as an educator, I can appreciate the potential hazards of standing up for CRT (by name) in or out of the classroom -- as much as the Right claims to be against "cancel culture," they'd embrace it in a heartbeat against me... and even a poor attempt is a nuisance to deal with.

Our friend Ana was nice enough to post this article in another thread, which is useful, but not in the way he expected it to be:

Opinion | I've Been a Critical Race Theorist for 30 Years. Our Opponents Are Just Proving Our Point For Us.

"CRT, in the real world, describes the diverse work of a small group of scholars who write about the shortcomings of conventional civil rights approaches to understanding and transforming racial power in American society. It’s a complex critique that wouldn’t fit easily into a K-12 curriculum. Even law students find the ideas challenging; we ourselves struggle to put it in understandable terms. We embrace no simple or orthodox set of principles, so no one can really be “trained” in CRT. And if teachers were able to teach such analytically difficult ideas to public school students, it should be a cause for wild celebration, not denunciation."

So you see, while the detractors find it easy to flood the media with scary caricatures, the truth is far more complicated. Since the detractors know to tailor their arguments to those who prefer simplicity to truth, the arguments look rather one-sided.

 

[SilverBear]

Is this CRT?

An esteemed Rutgers professor shares her lofty views on race.

Warning: One half-bleeped out word of profanity

and what does this show exactly?

 

[bekkilyn]

Speaking only for myself, as an educator, I an appreciate the potential hazards of standing up for CRT (by name) in or out of the classroom -- as much as the Right claims to be against "cancel culture," they'd embrace it in a heartbeat against me... and even a poor attempt is a nuisance to deal with.

Our friend Ana was nice enough to post this article in another thread, which is useful, but not in the way he expected it to be:

Opinion | I've Been a Critical Race Theorist for 30 Years. Our Opponents Are Just Proving Our Point For Us.

"CRT, in the real world, describes the diverse work of a small group of scholars who write about the shortcomings of conventional civil rights approaches to understanding and transforming racial power in American society. It’s a complex critique that wouldn’t fit easily into a K-12 curriculum. Even law students find the ideas challenging; we ourselves struggle to put it in understandable terms. We embrace no simple or orthodox set of principles, so no one can really be “trained” in CRT. And if teachers were able to teach such analytically difficult ideas to public school students, it should be a cause for wild celebration, not denunciation."

So you see, while the detractors find it easy to flood the media with scary caricatures, the truth is far more complicated. Since the detractors know to tailor their arguments to those who prefer simplicity to truth, the arguments look rather one-sided.

Thank you for posting something other than a one or two line response. So if what I've been seeing coming out of some of the schools and some company trainings and some other institutions isn't actually CRT, then I wonder where they are coming from, or if perhaps they are perversions of an idea that might have come from CRT but have been mutilated or gone extremist in the process (like that telephone game).

 

[SilverBear]

Come on... you know that is not what I'm asking.

you asked for a racial disparity. That is a huge one and one actually linked to a person's genetics.

I don't flat out reject it, I'm more wary of it.

Why? You know next to nothing about it so where does the wariness come from?

What? I am simply saying I've heard from detractors that this is what CRT teaches. I've asked you if it does and so far you've not given me a serious answer.

you said regarding CRT: "I don't want something that starts with the conclusion and demands we find evidence for it."

And let's hope CRT doesn't promote it.

CRT and it's adherents are not the ones promoting ignorance

Yeah, I don't have the patience to dive into everything. Especially when I judge it to probably be a waste of time. Given the people who defend CRT, and those refusing to even answer simple questions about it.

so you flat out reject it.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[TLK Valentine]

Thank you for posting something other than a one or two line response. So if what I've been seeing coming out of some of the schools and some company trainings and some other institutions isn't actually CRT, then I wonder where they are coming from, or if perhaps they are perversions of an idea that might have come from CRT but have been mutilated or gone extremist in the process (like that telephone game).

If it was ever "CRT" in the first place. Remember, CRT is not a single ideology or philosophy, but a broad term that covers a wide spectrum of sociological thinking covering about 5 decades of deep academic work.

It would be ridiculously easy for someone to take some asinine lesson plan that never should've made it to a classroom, call it "CRT," and get the fearful and credulous to believe it.

The truth is, CRT is not being taught to your children, never was, and was never going to be -- the only reason you or I have even heard of it is because someone needed to start a moral panic -- providing a fake enemy to rescue you from.

 

[SilverBear]

So far I've seen CRT detractors posts a great deal of information about it and are willing to educate others to their views, but I haven't seen any such willingness of CRT supporters, and I have to wonder if it's because they *cannot* actually refute the information that has been posted. And when 6-year-old girls come home from school asking their parents if they are evil because they are white, then I would find it concerning and wonder if CRT is *promoting* such views and if not, then how is CRT *discouraging* these views so that ALL people in the U.S. are united as *Americans*?

maybe you can give some information about how none of the 30 or so other students in this girl's class didn't hear anyone being called evil much less all the white kids.

 

[SilverBear]

Thank you for posting something other than a one or two line response. So if what I've been seeing coming out of some of the schools and some company trainings and some other institutions isn't actually CRT, then I wonder where they are coming from, or if perhaps they are perversions of an idea that might have come from CRT but have been mutilated or gone extremist in the process (like that telephone game).

They seem to be coming from a small group of CRT detractors.

 

[MehGuy]

you asked for a racial disparity. That is a huge one and one actually linked to a person's genetics.

Yeah.. I was talking about more relevant issues that CRT would be concerned about.. like average differences between socioeconomic status between the races. Your technicality answer doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, lol.

Why? You know next to nothing about it so where does the wariness come from?

The current racial climate. Those who I see defending CRT. I'd fee a little better if I saw some SJWs trying to cancel the thing for being too critical.

you said regarding CRT: "I don't want something that starts with the conclusion and demands we find evidence for it."

And what? I don't want such a narrow viewpoint being taught in school. I think I've made it clear that I am quite ignorant about CRT. I'm not trying to tell others this is how it is.

CRT and it's adherents are not the ones promoting ignorance

Oh, that's good. So what you're saying is that they do leave the road open to the possibilities of racial disparities at least in some part being due to cultural maybe even genetic factors?

so you flat out reject it.

I fail to see how I have. I've been up front about not being very knowledgeable about the topic. All I have done is air some of my concerns about it. I've even asked for my concerns to be addressed and thus far no one has given me a real answer.

I'm actually open to the idea that CRT might actually be a good thing. Although given the response thus far, either you do not know a lot about CRT yourself.. or you have things to hide about it.

 

[bekkilyn]

If it was ever "CRT" in the first place. Remember, CRT is not a single ideology or philosophy, but a broad term that covers a wide spectrum of sociological thinking covering about 5 decades of deep academic work.

It would be ridiculously easy for someone to take some asinine lesson plan that never should've made it to a classroom, call it "CRT," and get the fearful and credulous to believe it.

The truth is, CRT is not being taught to your children, never was, and was never going to be -- the only reason you or I have even heard of it is because someone needed to start a moral panic -- providing a fake enemy to rescue you from.

And yet 5 decades of deep academic work could still be 5 decades of deep academic work going in the wrong direction when it comes to practical application. If it was just one asinine lesson plan in one school, it would be one thing, but it seems to be much more than that on a much broader scale, whether it is actually "CRT" or not. These children aren't just getting all of these things out of thin air. When the direction seems to be more division and re-segregation and a tearing down of civil rights, of MLK's dream for all people, then whatever it is that is going on needs to be changed.

 

[MehGuy]

Is this CRT?

An esteemed Rutgers professor shares her lofty views on race.

Oh.. black people were sailing the world before white people did and not only that, but they were all friendly to each other too?

I do find it hyper amusing when someone like a Holocaust denier, or flat earther can be so bold to believe reality is whatever they want it to be.. lol.

Sadly if white people were as cruel and selfish as she's spouting off she'd probably be in chains right now. Probably one of the more remarkable parts of human history. The fact that white people didn't do as much damage to the other races as they had the power too.

Of course someone as ignorant as her is in the position of teaching others, lol.

 

[TLK Valentine]

And yet 5 decades of deep academic work could still be 5 decades of deep academic work going in the wrong direction when it comes to practical application.

Could be -- but if that's the case, it merits a refutation, not a banning.

If it was just one asinine lesson plan in one school, it would be one thing, but it seems to be much more than that on a much broader scale, whether it is actually "CRT" or not. These children aren't just getting all of these things out of thin air.

All what things?

When the direction seems to be more division and re-segregation and a tearing down of civil rights, of MLK's dream for all people, then whatever it is that is going on needs to be changed.

Well, there are the magic words -- "SEEMS to be..."

Not everything is as it seems -- especially not if you spend too much time with the detractors.

 

[bekkilyn]

Could be -- but if that's the case, it merits a refutation, not a banning.

But they're not banning CRT if only a miniscule amount of people in academia even know what it is, but rather they are banning whatever it is that is being taught under the name of CRT.

All what things?

The things about white people being evil oppressors and black people being perpetual victims. The sorts of things the lady in the video was saying. America is about racism and "whiteness" being a code word for American values. It's a growing list.

Well, there are the magic words -- "SEEMS to be..."

Not everything is as it seems -- especially not if you spend too much time with the detractors.

Except that I've spent decades with the "supporters" for lack of a better word. And because of it, I'm very aware that not everything is at it seems.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

who is saying anyone should?

The writer of one of the opinion pieces quoted by the OP

 

[TLK Valentine]

But they're not banning CRT if only a miniscule amount of people in academia even know what it is, but rather they are banning whatever it is that is being taught under the name of CRT.

And this is better because...?

The things about white people being evil oppressors and black people being perpetual victims. The sorts of things the lady in the video was saying. America is about racism and "whiteness" being a code word for American values. It's a growing list.

See what happens when you only listen to the detractors?

"CRT means 'whites are evil.'"

How simple, eh?

Except that I've spent decades with the "supporters" for lack of a better word. And because of it, I'm very aware that not everything is at it seems.

The short time I've spent with you leaves me unconvinced.

 

[bekkilyn]

And this is better because...?

Because if they are teaching a perversion of CRT that is causing greater racial division, then why would you wish them to continue teaching it?

See what happens when you only listen to the detractors?

"CRT means 'whites are evil.'"

How simple, eh?

If it's not CRT, then something is teaching it. The label isn't what's important.

The short time I've spent with you leaves me unconvinced.

It's funny that it's only now that I've disagreed with you about something that you've even noticed my existence. Otherwise, you wouldn't need to be convinced, but would know.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Because if they are teaching a perversion of CRT that is causing greater racial division, then why would you wish them to continue teaching it?

But they're not censoring a "perversion," they're censoring CRT.

If it's not CRT, then something is teaching it. The label isn't what's important.

The label (and everything they say falls under it -- genuine or not) is what's being censored... which is why I'm not overly concerned, but you should be.

You see, I'm only really opposed to this (as I oppose all forms of government censorship) on principle, because generally speaking, censors aren't terribly bright and not overburdened with creative thinking skills, so any "ban" they make will be ridiculously easy to get around.

That's why I'm not worried about actual CRT being taught in spite of the ban -- but that means this will do absolutely nothing to stop the "perversions" of it.

But that's your problem, not mine.

It's funny that it's only now that I've disagreed with you about something that you've even noticed my existence. Otherwise, you wouldn't need to be convinced, but would know.

Not sure what's unusual about it -- I had no reason to know who you are until we started debating.

What... what I suppose to know you from somewhere before? Did we go to school together? Did I used to date your cousin?

 

[bekkilyn]

But they're not censoring a "perversion," they're censoring CRT.



The label is what's being censored... which is why I'm not overly concerned, but you should be.

You see, I'm only really opposed to this (as I oppose all forms of government censorship) on principle, because generally speaking, censors aren't terribly bright and not overburdened with creative thinking skills, so any "ban" they make will be ridiculously easy to get around.

That's why I'm not worried about actual CRT being taught in spite of the ban -- but that means this will do absolutely nothing to stop the "perversions" of it.

But that's your problem, not mine.



Not sure what's unusual about it -- I had no reason to know who you are until we started debating.

What... what I suppose to know you from somewhere before? Did we go to school together? Did I used to date your cousin?

Therefore, I suppose we have no need to know each other now or in the future.