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Crowns, heads and horns , in Rev 13, 12, 17

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Jan 22, 2021.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States

    upload_2021-1-22_9-39-19.jpeg upload_2021-1-22_9-40-9.jpeg upload_2021-1-22_9-40-38.jpeg
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    Little horn>Antichrist>beast

    In Revelation 17, no crowns because the completion of the 7 kings, and the ten horns - are end times

    In Revelation 12, the person as the little horn comes to power leader of the EU right before the 7 years begin in Revelation 12. Thus completing the prophecy of the 7 kings. So the seven heads have crowns in Revelation 12.

    In Revelation 13, the person as the beast, dictator of the EU has taken place with 42 months left. Him previously as king 7, the little horn person, will have been killed - ending the prophecy of the 7 kings. So the heads have no crowns.

    The ten horns, the ten EU leaders, will rule with the person as the beast, so the horns have their crowns in Revelation 13 to rule with the beast for one hour, the 42 months.


    Revelation 17 - beast status at the time of John 1st century.

    Revelation 12 - beast status right before the 7 years begin.

    Revelation 13 - beast status right before the 42 months begin.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    eschatology wise, what to keep an eye on is the emergence and identity of the person as little horn.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  4. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    First, you need to do this homework:

    1.) What is the biblical signification (God's defintion) of the head in Scripture?
    2.) What is the biblical signification (God's defintion) of the crown in Scripture?
    3.) What is the biblical signification (God's defintion) of the horn in Scripture?

    If you interpret these with world news or literal nations instead, you do not have the Biblical Truth. What you and many premillennialists are doing is called Newspaper Eschatology, and of course "one man cult."
  5. Minky

    Minky Member

    United States
    Doug, I've noted your research and seen your charts. I know you've invested a lot of time in this, and I commend you for it. Here is my study. I think you will find less contradictions this way.

    Nebuchadnezzar’s Dream (Daniel 2)
I. Head of gold: Babylonian Empire (609–539 BC)
    II. Breast and arms of silver: Medo-Persian Empire (539–332 BC)
    III. Belly and thighs of brass: Greek Empire (332–63 BC)

    A. Greek Empire (332–140 BC)

    B. Semi-autocratic Hasmonean Kingdom (140–63 BC)
IV. Legs of iron and feet part of iron and part of clay: Roman Empire (63 BC–AD 395)

    Daniel’s Vision of Four Beasts (Daniel 7)
“Thus he said, ‘The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings (Dan. 7:23–24).”

    Daniel’s Vision of Four Beasts (Daniel 7)
    I. Babylonian Empire (609–539 BC)
    II. Medo-Persian Empire (539–332 BC)
    III. Greek Empire (332–63 BC)

    A. Greek Empire (332–140 BC)
 B. Semi-autocratic Hasmonean Kingdom (140–63 BC)
IV. Roman Empire (63 BC–AD 395)
 1. Pompey (63–49 BC)*
 2. Julius Caesar (49–44 BC)
 3. Augustus (44 BC–AD 14)
 4. Tiberius (AD 14–37)
 5. Caligula (AD 37–41)
 6. Claudius (AD 41–54)
 7. Nero (AD 54–68)
 8. Galba (AD 68–69)**
 9. Otho (AD 69)**
 10. Vitellius (AD 69)**
 11. Vespasian (AD 69–79)**


* Siege of Jerusalem (63 BC) - Wikipedia

    ** The Year of the Four Emperors, AD 69, was a period in the history of the Roman Empire in which four emperors ruled in succession: Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and Vespasian. Between June of 68 and December of 69 Galba, Otho, and Vitellius successively rose and fell, the latter overlapping with the July 69 accession of Vespasian, who founded the Flavian dynasty.

    Year of the Four Emperors - Wikipedia

    First Jewish–Roman War - Wikipedia

    Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE) - Wikipedia

    Beast from the Sea (Revelation 13:1–10)

    “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy (Revelation 13:1).”

    Symbolism is consistent in the Bible. This beast from the sea is a kingdom, as per Daniel 7:23. Yet it has two sets of kings: heads and horns. So, it is an alliance between two states, such as the Axis Powers. Before the Napoleonic Wars, the Holy Roman Empire was a center of Christendom. It consisted of what are today known as Italy and Germany. The Byzantine Empire had fallen by 1453.

    Dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire: 1806

    Dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire - Wikipedia


Seven Italian Kings/Heads (Revelation 17:10)

    1. Victor Emmanuel I (1802–1821)
2. Charles Felix (1821–1831)

    3. Charles Albert (1831–1849)

    4. Victor Emmanuel II (1849–1878)
5. Umberto I (1878–1900)

    6. Victor Emmanuel III (1900–1946)*
7. Umberto II (1946)**

    List of heads of state of Italy - Wikipedia


Recall: “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy (Revelation 13:1).”

    The name of blasphemy: Emmanuel, meaning “God with us.” Jesus was called Emmanuel. Calling anyone else by that name is blasphemy.

    “Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, ‘God with us (Matthew 1:23).’”

    “And I saw one of his heads [kings] as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast (Revelation 13:3).”

    * “ITALIAN KING WOUNDED BERLIN [Revelation 13:3]. Dec. 28, 1915. (Via Sayville by wireless.) King Victor Emmanuel of Italy has been wounded by an Austrian grenade and is now in the hospital, it is stated by the Overseas News agency. The agency attributes its information to a traveler who has just arrived from Italy. Terroristic and anti-government demonstrations are extending to an alarming extent in Italy, according to this traveller.”

    South Bend News-Times 28 December 1915 — Hoosier State Chronicles: Indiana's Digital Historic Newspaper Program

    ** Reigned only 34 days; “a short space (Revelation 17:10).”

    “The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition (Antichrist): and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is (Revelation 17:8).”

    “And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space (Rev. 17:9–10).”


Seven Hills of Rome (Revelation 17:9)

    1. Aventine Hill

    2. Caelian Hill

    3. Capitoline Hill

    4. Esquiline Hill

    5. Palatine Hill

    6. Quirinal Hill

    7. Viminal Hill

    Seven hills of Rome - Wikipedia

    “And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18)”—Rome.

    “And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition (Revelation 17:11)”—Antichrist.

    “And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast (Revelation 17:12).”

    Ten German Rulers/Horns (Revelation 17:12)

    1. Frederick William III (1797–1840)

    2. Frederick William IV (1840–1861)

    3. William I (1861–1888)

    4. Frederick III (1888)

    5. Wilhelm II (1888–1918)
6. Friedrich Ebert (1918–1925)

    7. Hans Luther (1925)
8. Walter Simons (1925)

    9. Paul von Hindenburg (1925–1934)

    10. Adolf Hitler (1934–1945)*

    List of heads of state of Germany - Wikipedia

    These ten rulers began as the German Confederation (“no kingdom as yet”), but received power as kings one hour with the beast (1871–1918).

    German Confederation - Wikipedia

    * Whose holocaust lasted 42 months: 25 November 1941–8 May 1945 (Revelation 13:5).

    “And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (Revelation 13:5).”

    The Holocaust - Wikipedia

    Ninth Fort massacres of November 1941 - Wikipedia (25 November 1941)

    Victory in Europe Day - Wikipedia (8 May 1945)

    Screen Shot 2021-01-22 at 10.32.25 PM.png

    “And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire (Revelation 17:16).”

    “On Oct. 13, 1943, one month after Italy surrendered to Allied forces, it declared war on Nazi Germany, its onetime Axis powers partner.”

    Oct. 13, 1943 | Italy Switches Sides in World War II
  6. Minky

    Minky Member

    United States
    Great Sign in Heaven (Revelation 12)

    Revelation 12 sign prophecy - Wikipedia
    Draconids - Wikipedia

    Beast from the Earth (Revelation 13:11–18)

    “And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon (Rev. 13:11).”

    Two British Monarchs/Horns (Revelation 13:11)
1. George VI (1936–1952)

    2. Elizabeth II (1952–present)


“And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed (Revelation 13:12).”

    Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' Becomes Online Bestseller


Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' becomes online bestseller | DW | 11.01.2014

    “And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men (Revelation 13:13),”

    Nuclear weapon - Wikipedia

    “And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    “And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed (Revelation 13:14–15).”

    Sophia (robot) - Wikipedia

    “And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads (Revelation 13:16):”

    Mark = “thing carved, sculpture, or graven work (Strong’s Concordance).”

    G5480 - charagma - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

    “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    “Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”

    Here is how 666 = WWW:

    χξς (Greek) = 666 (English) = ווו (Paleo Hebrew) = WWW (English).

    Waw (letter) - Wikipedia

    Arabic numerals - Wikipedia

    Banknote - Wikipedia

    My belief is that the mark of the beast is the smartphone (gadget). And the name of the beast (kingdom), or the number of his name, is the World Wide Web.

    One man is credited with inventing the World Wide Web (WWW): Tim Berners-Lee, a British computer scientist (the reason the Greek is translated to English).

    Berners-Lee was raised as an Anglican, but he turned away from religion in his youth. After he became a parent, he became a Unitarian Universalist (UU). When asked whether he believes in God, he stated: “Not in the sense of most people, I'm atheist and Unitarian Universalist.”

    Tim Berners-Lee - Wikipedia

    Berners-Lee worked as an independent contractor at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) from June to December 1980. CERN is a European research organization that operates the largest particle physics laboratory in the world.

    In 1984, Berners-Lee returned to CERN as a fellow.

    In 1989, CERN was the largest internet node in Europe, and Berners-Lee joined hypertext with the internet, creating the World Wide Web.

    On 30 April 1993 CERN put the World Wide Web software in the public domain. CERN made the next release available with an open license, as a more sure way to maximize its dissemination. Through these actions, making the software required to run a web server freely available, along with a basic browser and a library of code, the web was allowed to flourish.

    Twenty years of a free, open web

    Tim Berners-Lee was dubbed a Knight Commander, Order of the British Empire (KBE) by Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II during an Investiture in London on Friday, 16 July 2004. The rank of Knight Commander is the second most senior rank of the Order of the British Empire, one of the Orders of Chivalry.

    Tim Berners-Lee Knighted by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

    Information Age
    1946: Charg-It

    1950: Diners’ Club
1958: Visa, American Express

    1979: MasterCard

    1985: Discover Card

    1989: World Wide Web (WWW)
1991: SIM card
1994: Amazon

    1995: eBay

    1996: Nokia 9000 Communicator (smartphone)

    1997: Mobile commerce

    1998: Google, PayPal

    1999: BlackBerry, Napster

    2001: Apple iPod

    2003: MySpace

    2004: Facebook

    2005: YouTube

    2006: Twitter

    2007: Apple iPhone
2009: Bitcoin, Samsung Galaxy
2010: Apple iPad
2011: Apple Siri

    2014: Amazon Alexa
2016: Google Assistant
2020: e-Yuan

    2021: Diem

    The Antichrist will control mankind through gadgets and the Internet as people 'fall into slavery' to smartphones, warns leader of Russian Orthodox Church

    Antichrist will control us through phones, say Russian church leader | Daily Mail Online

    Have Smartphones Replaced God?

    Have Smartphones Replaced God?

    Could the iPhone be the Mark of the Beast?

    Could the iPhone be the Mark of the Beast?

    You Already Carry the Mark of the Beast. Don’t Believe? You Will Soon…

    You already carry the Mark of the Beast. Don't believe? You will soon... - Technology - News - Catholic Online

    Facebook Plans Global Financial System Based on Cryptocurrency


    Facebook’s Libra Could Be a Step Towards 666


    What Percentage of People Have an RFID Chip Implanted in Them at this Moment?


    How Many Smartphones Are in the World?


    Why the Man Who Invented the Web Isn’t Rich


    Happy 30th Birthday, World Wide Web! Where Does the Digital Messiah Go from Here?


    Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Alphabet, and Microsoft are Collectively Worth More than the Entire Economy of the United Kingdom


    Facebook’s Libra Currency to Launch Next Year in Limited Format


    Facebook’s Rebranded Cryptocurrency Diem is a ‘Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing,’ Germany’s Finance Minister Says


    What Would the Pope and Mark Zuckerberg Even Talk About?


    Libra Us from Evil: Facebook’s New Crypto Due to Pope Francis’ Progressivism


    Head of Libra Association: Libra Project May Be Useful for UN


    United Nations Pledges to Get Everyone Online… by 2030


    Guterres Underscores UN Role in Achieving a Free, Secure Internet


    Free Broadband: Internet Access is Now a Human Right, No Matter Who Pays the Bills


    Mark Zuckerberg’s Audacious Plan to Bring Free Internet to Billions of People All Around the World


    Blockchain and the Web Are Coming Together, Says Berners-Lee


    Why Internet Growth Is a Prime Cryptocurrency-Adoption Driver


    Geneva’s Reyl Set to Launch First Digital Private Swiss Bank


    Israel Passes Law to Limit Cash Deals to Fight Economic Crimes


    UAE-Saudi Arabian Digital Currency ‘Aber’ to Be Restricted to Select Banks at Start


    Why Is Germany Eliminating Paper Money?


    South African Central Bank to Reportedly Introduce New Crypto Regulations


    China’s Digital Currency to Be Given a Test Drive by U.S. Companies


    Japan Ruling Party Panel Aims to Put Digital Yen on Government’s Mid-Year Policy


    Fed’s Harker: Digital Central Bank Currency ‘Inevitable’


    Alan Greenspan Says There’s ‘No Point’ for Central Banks to Issue Digital Currency


    Is Covid-19 Driving Growth in Digital Currencies?


    Governments Quarantine Banknotes as Coronavirus Puts ‘Dirty’ Money in Spotlight


    Pandemic Shock May Hasten Central Bank Digital Cash


    Robots Test Their Own World Wide Web, Dubbed RoboEarth


    How the World Wide Web Was Nearly Called The Information Mesh

  7. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    Hi Douggg,

    I agree that Satan is the red dragon, as God`s word tells us this. (Rev. 12: 3 & 9)

    That is one of his descriptions - dragon, the devourer. (Rev. 2: 4)

    The `heads,` are symbolic of rulership. 7 meaning complete rulership.
    `..the whole world lies under the sway of the evil one.` (1 John 5: 19)

    The 10 horns which are crowned, are symbolic of Political Power. (Horn = power, and crown = Political)
    Note the `beast` from the sea, (of people) is given power, throne and great authority by Satan. Thus Satan, (dragon) is giving the final global government system & leader all this power, throne and authority.

    This is Revealed in Rev. 17 where we read of Satan who is in total control of the Global government and its final leader.
  8. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    Hi Douggg,

    Just a bit more about the `7 heads & 10 horns.`

    I agree that the head with the 10 horns is the end time person, (as said in diagram). He is the Assyrian and will have the 10 nations of the Middle East behind him -
    3 - Syria, Iraq, Jordan.
    7 - Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Omar & Yeman

    However I do not agree that the 6 heads are from the Roman Empire.

    The G 20 has a rotation of 5 leaders/heads. `5 have fallen,` (Rev. 17: 10) (come & gone).
    When that rotation finishes I believe the EU will have one leader and that will be the 6th. Then the A/C will have risen to prominence and he will become the 7th leader, and very soon overtaken by Satan himself, (the 8th & of the 7th. Rev. 17: 11)

  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    Hi Marilyn and Minky,

    Before theorizing on the person - the first criteria has to be considered.

    Revelation was given to John later in his life, and John has no expectation that he would be given it.

    Let's go back to the fledgling days of Christianity. The setting Jerusalem, where Christianity first started right after Jesus appeared to the disciples after the resurrection in Luke 24:44-48.

    Jesus had been crucified days before, and it was a big event in Jerusalem. Crucified, although many thought him to be the messiah, the promised King of Israel, descended from David.

    So in those earlier years everyone would have known about Jesus and him being crucified, rejected by the religious leaders as being the messiah, the Christ, the King of Israel. That would have been the talk in those days by everyone in the region.

    In 1John2:18, John says - as you have heard Antichrist shall come. The only reason being aware of such talk is that Jesus said another the Jews would accept, but coming in his own name. Accepted as what? The messiah, the promised King of Israel, descended from King David. We can see this today in Jews, Israel, looking for such a person.

    Nothing about the person being the 7th king, nothing about having his power from Satan, none of the information we have in Revelation - because Revelation came later at the end of John's life.

    The First criteria - the person who becomes the Antichrist has to be a Jew, his religion Judaism, and perceived by the Jews as descended from king David. And anointed the King of Israel, thought to be messiah, "anti" - i.e. instead of and against Jesus, the true Christ, the rightful King of Israel.

    Then...with the first criteria taken into account, we start putting together theories about the person, with information given in Revelation, and Revelation fitting with Daniel.

    little horn (leader of the EU)>the Antichrist (king of Israel)> beast (dictator of the EU).
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  10. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    Hi Douggg,

    Did you realise that the book of Revelation is about the unveiling of JESUS & NOT John?

    I am writing about Revelation in my blog area. Here is the Overview.

    3. Overview. (4 visions).jpg
    OVERVIEW: The Four Visions.

    The predominant aim of Revelation is the setting forth the splendours of the Son of Man, & to reveal His glorious person. There are four visions of the Son of Man as He is known in the heavenly realm & each vision in turn carries through to completion one aspect of the fourfold ministry of Christ which He exercised when on earth. His Kinship was expressed in Matthew, His Heirship in Mark, His Mediatorship in Luke, & His Judgeship in John.

    Vision 1. CHRIST - Head of the Body. (Rev. 1 – 3)

    This reveals the empowered Son of Man as the Sovereign Administrator.

    `in His right hand He held 7 stars.`

    Vision 2. CHRIST - HEIR (Rev. 4 – 7)

    This reveals the enthroned Son of Man as the Supreme Executor.

    `in His right hand He held the 7 sealed book.`

    Vision 3. CHRIST - MEDIATOR (Rev. 8 – 13)

    This reveals the exalted Son of Man as the Stately Mediator.

    `in His hand is a sacred censor.`

    Vision 4. CHRIST - JUDGE (Rev. 14 – 22)

    This reveals the entitled Son of Man as the Sublime Adjudicator.

    `in His hand is a sharp sickle.`

    To reveal Christ to us in Revelation, there are three hundred & thirty references to the figures, shadows, symbols, types, patterns, persons, & buildings of the Old Testament.

    This unveiling is the culmination of all the truths expressed from Genesis to Revelation, for all scripture is centred on one purpose and that is to reveal Christ to us in all His Glory.
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    Yes. I don't know of anyone who thinks Revelation was about the unveiling of John.

    In my previous post, I was making the point that the first criteria of the Antichrist person is that he has to be a Jew, his religion Judaism. and perceived by the Jews as descended from king David.

    None of the information about the person in Revelation 13, 17, as the beast is found in the epistles of John.
  12. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    Hi Douggg,

    There are no scriptures, (plural) to reveal the A/C of a Jew. Remember that we cannot take one scripture alone to prove a position. The truth is to match ALL of God`s word.

    And we are told that the world rulers are Gentiles. (Dan. 2, the Great Image.) And then in Dan. 7 we see the 4 kingdoms/Federations of the time when God will set up His kingdom rule through Israel. These are Gentile rulers.

    No where do we see that the people of Israel accept a person as their Messiah in the end times. They ONLY receive a Peace Maker, as they have recently but not as yet the A/C.
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    We are putting together theories about the person because we have Revelation. Them John was speaking to in 1John2:18, did not have Revelation.

    But the early church was already aware that antichrist shall come... without any information about the person from Revelation.


    and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,

    Them who John was speaking to had heard that antichrist shall come. The only basis they would have had about the antichrist is that Jesus said the Jews would accept another coming in his own name, and reject him as the King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord.

    John 12:
    12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

    13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    To become the Antichrist, the King of Israel, but coming in his own name, the person has to be
    a Jew, his religion Judaism, and be perceived by the Jews to be descended from King David.


    The timeframes regarding the person to connect him to the little horn in Daniel 7,8, and the prince who shall come in Daniel 9 - were not given until John was informed of the timeframes in Revelation.

    So them in 1John2:18 would have had no information to make the connection of the antichrist with those prophecies in Daniel - because they did not have the timeframes of Revelation.

    All that them in 1John2:18 had was that the Jews would accept another, instead of Jesus, who comes in his own name. Whereas in John 12:13 above, Jesus is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
  14. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    So if as you say the coming Global leader is a Jew, then why isn`t he leading Israel and not the 10 nations?
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    Because being the Antichrist is about being the king of Israel....for a while, for only around 3 years. He may also concurrently be the leader of the EU during that time, it is not known for sure.

    Being the little horn and being the beast is being the king of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire.


    starting as little horn - leader of the EU.

    than for a while, perceived to be the messiah by the Jews, and anointed the King of Israel. Which turns out to be a fail.

    then the person, rejected by the Jews as continuing as their king of Israel, becomes the beast (no longer the King of Israel Antichrist). The ten leaders of the EU hand their EU kingdom over to him to be dictator.

    The EU will be the dominant force over the rest off the world, for that last 42 months. And the world will be worshipping the beast as God.

    little horn>Antichrist>beast a mini timeline. little horn, then becomes the Antichrist,, then becomes the beast.

    little horn>Antichrist>beast - leader of the EU (gardnered from the timeframes in Revelation)

    little horn>Antichrist>beast - King of Israel, coming in his own name (what them in 1John2:18 had heard of the person)

    little horn>Antichrist>beast - dictator of the EU (gardened from the timefames in Revelation)


    What to watch for is a Jew, who's religion is Judaism, becoming leader of the EU over ten other leaders. Who will have a stout appearance.

    If a person is looking at a muslim or the pope as that person - they are looking in the wrong direction.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  16. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    So Douggg,

    Are you saying that the peace negotiator, will be king of Israel for a while, then later turn on his people and kill many who don`t take his mark, and then finally kill two thirds of Israelis, his people, before surrounding Jerusalem and killing and looting and raping.

    And all this with the help of the EU, who are continually verbally fighting each other, and do NOT like to go to war.

    And Islam, who is currently at war in many countries, murdering whole villages, and beheading people. These people are not to be taken seriously? Seriously now Douggg,.....
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    I gave the basic functional roles of the person. Leader of the EU, then the King of Israel, then the dictator of the EU.

    When the person is the leader of the EU - call him the little horn.
    When the person is the King of Israel (coming in his own name) - call him the Antichrist.
    When the person is the dictator of the EU - call him the beast.

    I did not go into the detailed course of events.

    The person is not a "peace negotiator". No peace covenant involved.

    The confirmation of the covenant for 7 years is the confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year period as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 once the person has become the Antichrist.

    Islam ends as a factor in the end times with the Gog/Magog event. Islam will be completely discredited in the eyes of its believers because God will have defended Israel supernaturally while destroying the muslim armies, and some of it's distant cities.

    And many in Christianity will fall away from believing in Jesus following Gog/Magog.

    Because the 7 years following Gog/Magog will kick off the beginning of the perceived messianic age of peace and safety, with the Antichrist person appearing to be the true messiah - and that the Jews were right after all.


    The person has to be a Jew, his religion Judaism, and be perceived by the Jews as descended from king David, to become the Antichrist.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    @Marilyn C , @Minky

    The person will be a Jew by birth. And his religion Judaism by choice.

    His religion is critical, because for the Jews to think he is the messiah, the promised great King of Israel (which Jesus was crucified as their* rejection of him being the promised great King of Israel) for a while, his religion must be Judaism. Until the person reveals that he is not the messiah, because he will claim to have achieved God-hood in 2Thessalonians2:3-4.

    His functional role as the beast comes afterward.


    * John 1

    10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
  19. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    Just because the Jews receive this man does NOT mean that they accept him as their Messiah. They receive him as confirming the covenant with them.

    If this man of lawlessness received their acclamation of him being their messiah, then why would they begin their sacrifices again?

    Then again which would any of us prefer to have come into our village/town and take over - the EU or Islam?
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    John 4:

    25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

    Messiah and Christ are synonymous.

    Mark 15:
    32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

    The Jews (Judaism) at Messiah Truth.com use the term the King of Israel, messiah.

    The person is not revealed as the man of lawlessness until he claims as a man to have achieved God-hood.

    For the first 3 years or so of the 7 years, the person will playing out the role of being the messiah, and because of his huge ego, will fancy himself as being the messiah. So animal sacrifices will be done while he is the King of Israel, messiah for those 3 years. But not the true messiah, who is Jesus.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021