Crowns, heads and horns , in Rev 13, 12, 17

[Marilyn C]

So where do we see the EU being this `dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong, devouring and trampling` Federation. (Dan. 7: 7)

Ask anyone and they will tell you who that really is. Ask those in Nigeria, the tens of thousands who have been brutally massacred, and it still goes on.

Then in many other places across the world people are being killed by this `terrifying beast.`

The EU? No way. I don`t have to tell you who for you already know.

 

[Douggg]

So where do we see the EU being this `dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong, devouring and trampling` Federation. (Dan. 7: 7)

Ask anyone and they will tell you who that really is. Ask those in Nigeria, the tens of thousands who have been brutally massacred, and it still goes on.

Then in many other places across the world people are being killed by this `terrifying beast.`

The EU? No way. I don`t have to tell you who for you already know.

Marilyn, do you remember this guy? Remember how he came to be dictator of Germany? Through the enabling act. Also, his propaganda machine suppressed any political opposition. And right now as we speak, take a look at you tube, its policies that no-one can use the phrase "voter fraud", without being demoneytized or shut down. Go to the bng home page, on any day, and see at the bottom the negative links chosen by bing to Trump and republicans news, but nothing about Democrats. Trump banned from twitter. All of that is nazi germany like tactics.... I am pointing this out, to be aware, that there is the spiritual force of Satan and his angels at work, in these final days of the last days.

The little horn is not Hitler of course. But history shows what can happen with Europe under certain leadership.

The little horn person will be more stout than his fellows. He will be a king of fierce countenance. Hitler's appearance is a startling example, as a forerunner. Mussolini would be another example.

The little horn person uses craft to his rise to power. In Kabbalah, Jewish mysticism, the adepts use angels to achieve their objectives. One of those will be angels will be Satan.

Which the beginning decline of the United States preeminent world power, imo, via the election manipulation, the insane actions of Nancy Pelosi to impeach Trump after he has left office, the Democrat Gay Lesbian agenda - and a myriad of other unseemly things - behind the scenes is the spiritual kingdom of Babylon the Great at work, influencing minds, ultimately to bring the little horn into place, and the elevation of the EU to be the dominant world kingdom.

And after the person becomes the beast, he will be dictator of the EU. The United States and Canada, in a lesser role than today, will likely be allied under the EU.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

If we were in heaven, and see what is taking place in the world behind the scenes by Satan and his angels, manipulating, and influencing people spiritually, we could see clearly their actions. But being like Job, we don't know all those things as why the world is moving in the direction of the little horn, the Antichrist, the beast.

The world is rapidly changing, like a flood, to be in those final end time years. The world will be a completely different place following Gog/Magog.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, do you remember this guy? Remember how he came to be dictator of Germany?.

Hi Douggg,

Yes I remember, & thought you would remind us of that time. So do you realise that for what you suggest to come about, then that Federation has to be even more ruthless, brutal etc than what we are seeing today in places over the world.

I wont even describe the awful inhumanities inflicted on children, young people, adults & the elderly. Utterly indescribable, horrendous and beyond just killing but brutalising others. Actually demonic.

 

[WhoIsLikeGod?]

@Marilyn C , @Minky

The person will be a Jew by birth. And his religion Judaism by choice.

His religion is critical, because for the Jews to think he is the messiah, the promised great King of Israel (which Jesus was crucified as their* rejection of him being the promised great King of Israel) for a while, his religion must be Judaism. Until the person reveals that he is not the messiah, because he will claim to have achieved God-hood in 2Thessalonians2:3-4.

His functional role as the beast comes afterward.

__________________________________________________________________

* John 1

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

The Antichrist "was, and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction (Rev. 17:11)." He will be one of the seven Italian kings, and will probably position himself as President of the European Union.

Starting from the dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire in 1806:

Seven Italian Kings/Heads (Revelation 17:10)

1. Victor Emmanuel I (1802–1821)

2. Charles Felix (1821–1831)

3. Charles Albert (1831–1849)

4. Victor Emmanuel II (1849–1878)

5. Umberto I (1878–1900)

6. Victor Emmanuel III (1900–1946)*

7. Umberto II (1946)**

List of heads of state of Italy - Wikipedia

Recall: “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy (Revelation 13:1).”

The name of blasphemy: Emmanuel, meaning “God with us.” Jesus was called Emmanuel. Calling anyone else by that name is blasphemy.

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, ‘God with us (Matthew 1:23).’”

“And I saw one of his heads [kings] as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast (Revelation 13:3).”

* “ITALIAN KING WOUNDED BERLIN [Revelation 13:3]. Dec. 28, 1915. (Via Sayville by wireless.) King Victor Emmanuel of Italy has been wounded by an Austrian grenade and is now in the hospital, it is stated by the Overseas News agency. The agency attributes its information to a traveler who has just arrived from Italy. Terroristic and anti-government demonstrations are extending to an alarming extent in Italy, according to this traveller.”



South Bend News-Times 28 December 1915 — Hoosier State Chronicles: Indiana's Digital Historic Newspaper Program

** Reigned only 34 days; “a short space (Revelation 17:10).”

The Antichrist will probably be someone like this guy (heir to the old Italian Monarchy): Prince Aimone, Duke of Apulia - Wikipedia

But I'm not saying with any definitive measure.

He does not need to be Jewish because he will not necessarily be confused as the Jews' Messiah. Antichrist simply means "adversary of the Messiah (G500 - antichristos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV))," not substitute for the Messiah. The Antichrist will be the world's messiah.

There are also ten horns of the beast from the sea in Revelation, but they were in my original post, so I'm sure you can check those.

The Antichrist will be present during the 5th trumpet (locusts) and the 6th trumpet (WWIII).

5th Trumpet
"They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer) (Rev. 9:11)."

The 6th trumpet (WWIII) and two witnesses will happen around the same time. You can tell by counting woes. The 1st woe is the 5th trumpet (locusts), and the 2nd woe is the 6th trumpet (WWIII) & the two witnesses:

"The 1st woe (5th trumpet: locusts) has passed; behold, two woes are still coming after these things (Rev. 9:12)."

2nd Woe
"The 2nd woe (WWIII & two witnesses) has passed; behold, the 3rd woe (7th trumpet: rapture) is coming quickly (Rev. 11:14)."

The 3rd woe is the 7th trumpet (rapture).

The Antichrist will kill the two witnesses in Jerusalem.

"When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them (Rev. 11:7)."

The Antichrist is describes as the beast that comes up out of the Abyss, angel of the Abyss, man of lawlessness (or sin), eighth king, but not a little horn.

Vespasian was the little horn in Daniel 7:8 (hang on... keep reading; I know you view this differently).

Ten Roman Emperors

1. Pompey (63–49 BC)*

2. Julius Caesar (49–44 BC)

3. Augustus (44 BC–AD 14)

4. Tiberius (AD 14–37)

5. Caligula (AD 37–41)

6. Claudius (AD 41–54)

7. Nero (AD 54–68)

8. Galba (AD 68–69)**

9. Otho (AD 69)**

10. Vitellius (AD 69)**
11. Vespasian (AD 69–79)**

* Siege of Jerusalem (63 BC). Most people think Augustus was the first emperor. Look at who conquered Judea. It was Pompey in 63 BC. He was the leader of the First Triumvirate. When Pompey died, Julius Caesar took over. Augustus was the leader of the Second Triumvirate and became the first emperor, but Pompey is who took over Judea and made it Roman territory. He is the first "king."

** The Year of the Four Emperors, AD 69, was a period in the history of the Roman Empire in which four emperors ruled in succession: Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and Vespasian. Between June of 68 and December of 69 Galba, Otho, and Vitellius successively rose and fell, the latter overlapping with the July 69 accession of Vespasian, who founded the Flavian dynasty.

This terrifying, Roman beast had 11 horns (including the little one). It didn't have ten, like the one in Revelation 13, and it didn't have 7 heads. You can't same they are the same beast for this reason, and this reason alone. Vespasian uprooted the 3 horns before him. He also destroyed the Second Temple in 70 AD.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes was the little horn in Daniel 8:9.

Here's how we know: "And he said to me, 'For 2,300 evening and mornings; then the sanctuary will be properly restored (Dan. 8:14).'"

“The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even (Num. 28:4);”

2,300 evening and morning (sacrifices)/2 lambs per day = 1,150 days

“On the fifteenth day of the month Kislev, in the year one hundred and forty-five (167 B.C.), the king erected the desolating abomination upon the altar of burnt offerings, and in the surrounding cities of Judah they built pagan altars (1 Macc. 1:57).”

“They rose early on the morning of the twenty-fifth day of the ninth month, that is, the month of Kislev, in the year one hundred and forty-eight (164 B.C.), and offered sacrifice according to the law on the new altar for burnt offerings that they had made (1 Macc. 4:52–53).”

3 yrs.*360 days/yr. = 1,080 days
2 intercalary mos.*30 days/mo. = 60 days
From 15 Kislev to 25 Kislev = 10 days
1,150 days

These are the names of the Antichrist:

"No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction (2 Th. 2:3)"

Recall: "They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer) (Rev. 9:11)."

"When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them (Rev. 11:7)."

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction (Rev. 17:8)..."

"The beast which was, and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction (Rev. 17:11)

I know you think the Antichrist has to be Jewish. Who are your seven heads of Revelation 13, from the beast from the sea?

 

[WhoIsLikeGod?]

In 1John2:18, John says - as you have heard Antichrist shall come. The only reason being aware of such talk is that Jesus said another the Jews would accept, but coming in his own name.

Please provide the source that says, "Jesus said another the Jews would accept."

"No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God (2 Th. 2:3–4)."

A Jew practicing Judaism would not oppose and exalt himself above YHWH.

 

[Douggg]

I know you think the Antichrist has to be Jewish. Who are your seven heads of Revelation 13, from the beast from the sea?

All of the seven heads are kings (leaders) of the fourth kingdom of the Julio-Claudian bloodline.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero (last of the Julio-Claudian historic leaders)

7. End times person, little horn, leader of the EU - who in Revelation 13 is the head that has been mortally wounded (killed) but healed (comes back to life) as the beast, king 8.

 

[Douggg]

Please provide the source that says, "Jesus said another the Jews would accept."

John 5:
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Regarding Jesus coming in his Father's name as the King of Israel...

John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The person we are talking about, the little horn> the Antichrist> the beast is the Antichrist only for the time he is the King of Israel. At other times, as the little horn and the beast, he is the King of the Roman Empire.

A Jew practicing Judaism would not oppose and exalt himself above YHWH.

Exactly. Judaism will be the person's religion initially, until he listens to Satan, and turns his back on God and Judaism. Which explains why God has so much disdain for the person in Isaiah 14:19-20.

Over time, after about three years into being the King of Israel, he goes off the deep end, after immersing himself in Kabbalah, thinking he is using the angels (one of which will be Satan) to achieve his objectives. Which things get twisted around in his mind and heart, and Satan convinces him that he can achieve God-hood. The person already has a huge ego to begin with, which will make him susceptible to Satan's reasoning, plus all the success he will have had using kabballah in life prior...

Daniel 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

So the person magnifies himself in heart that he has achieved God-hood - and stops the daily sacrifice, goes into the temple sits and shows the world that he had achieved God-hood. It is the same argument that the serpent used in the garden of eden to Eve, put subtily.

Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Now please look at what it says about the person (under the pen name of the Prince of Tyre) in Ezekiel 28:

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

 

[WhoIsLikeGod?]

All of the seven heads are kings (leaders) of the fourth kingdom of the Julio-Claudian bloodline.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero (last of the Julio-Claudian historic leaders)

7. End times person, little horn, leader of the EU - who in Revelation 13 is the head that has been mortally wounded (killed) but healed (comes back to life) as the beast, king 8.

So according to your own logic, the 8th king would be Italian/Latin, not Jewish, since he is one of the seven. Also, there is no rhyme or reason for the 7 heads in Revelation 13 to be of one bloodline. Pompey conquered Judea in 63 BC. The "seven" are united by nationality and kingship, not bloodline (Pompey—>Vespasian). I can't and won't believe that the horns of the beast from the sea in Revelation stretch way back to the beginning of the Roman Empire and wind up here, now; today.

The dates of the 4 kingdoms are as follows:
I. Babylon (609–539 BC)
II. Medo-Persia (539–332 BC)
III. Greece (332–63 BC)
IV. Rome (63 BC–395 BC)

At each turning point, the territory of Judea changed possession. See for yourself; read:

Siege of Jerusalem (63 BC) - Wikipedia

Concerning your other belief, why on Earth would the 7th king "become" the eighth??? That makes no sense. At least you understand that the kings are of consecutive order. So are the beasts. They were in Daniel, and they are in Revelation.

Seven Italian Kings/Heads (Revelation 17:10)

1. Victor Emmanuel I (1802–1821)

2. Charles Felix (1821–1831)

3. Charles Albert (1831–1849)

4. Victor Emmanuel II (1849–1878)

5. Umberto I (1878–1900)

6. Victor Emmanuel III (1900–1946)*

7. Umberto II (1946)**

What's your name of blasphemy? Mine's "Emmanuel."

Revelation doesn't actually say a king dies... just as if we was fatally wounded.
"I saw one of his heads as if it had been fatally wounded, and his fatal wound was healed." I haven't actually checked every translation of as if, but the NASB sounds like "it appeared as if."

Your ten heads do not chronologically align with your seven heads, but these do:

Ten German Rulers/Horns (Revelation 17:12)

1. Frederick William III (1797–1840)

2. Frederick William IV (1840–1861)

3. William I (1861–1888)

4. Frederick III (1888)

5. Wilhelm II (1888–1918)

6. Friedrich Ebert (1918–1925)

7. Hans Luther (1925)

8. Walter Simons (1925)

9. Paul von Hindenburg (1925–1934)

10. Adolf Hitler (1934–1945)*

Also, the Holy Roman Empire used to consist of Italy and Germany. Why wouldn't it be Italy and Germany? And, as I said before, the two beasts in Revelation are consecutive, as well.

Two British Monarchs/Horns (Revelation 13:11)

1. George VI (1936–1952)

2. Elizabeth II (1952–present)

I know you've invested a lot of time into your interpretation. But I think you've had to make a lot of complicated accommodations and stretches in order to make yours work out. It's actually simpler, this way.

 

[Douggg]

So according to your own logic, the 8th king would be Italian/Latin, not Jewish, since he is one of the seven.

He will be a Jew and also descended from the Julio-Claudian bloodline. He may be Italian. He may be from Rome. We don't know. I lean toward coming out of a small country in the EU,

btw, in Judaism, a person is considered a Jew if the mother (not the father) is a Jew.

Also, there is no rhyme or reason for the fourth kingdom in Daniel to be of one bloodline

I am not saying the fourth kingdom is of one bloodline.

The ten kings in Daniel 7 are of the fourth kingdom. But not one bloodline.

It is the 7 kings in Revelation 17:10 who are of one bloodline.


23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

I can't and won't believe that the horns of the beast from the sea in Revelation stretch way back to the beginning of the Roman Empire and wind up here, now; today.

The ten horns don't stretch back to the beginning of the Roman Empire. The horns are ten kings of the Roman empire, end times version of it, the EU. The EU has its roots in the European common market founded by the treaties of Rome, in the 1950's.

The Roman Empire and Israel (1948, 1967) have made their presence centerfold in this parable of the fig tree generation, because all of the end times prophecies are about to be fulfilled.

The ten horns, the ten end times leaders, are associated with the 7th head, the end times little horn person, king 7 of the 7 kings in Revelation 17:10

Five of the 7 kings (heads) in Revelation 17:10 had fallen, died, at the time of John. The sixth king was ruling at the time of John. The seventh king is yet to come and when he comes he must "continue" a short space. The continue is in Revelation 13:5. And the short space is the 42 months.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

What the ten horns, the ten end times leaders of the EU, are not connected to is Israel. But the false prophet is.

He comes out of the earth, symbolic for coming out of Israel, not the nations. The false prophet will be the one who will anoint the little horn>the Antichrist>the beast person the King of Israel. And will thought to be by the Jews, or will present himself as Elijah, the prophet.

Concerning your other belief, why on Earth would the 7th king "become" the eighth??? That makes no sense. At least you understand that the kings are of consecutive order. So are the beasts. They were in Daniel, and they are in Revelation.

The 7th king person will be killed, and brought back to life and continue the short space of 42 months as the beast - which the bible calls the eighth (king, inferred) as the beast.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

In Daniel and Revelation, there are many beasts spoken of. Sorting those out as to the meanings is up to those who seek to understand.

Your ten heads do not chronologically align with your seven heads, but these do:

Ten German Rulers/Horns (Revelation 17:12)

1. Frederick William III (1797–1840)

2. Frederick William IV (1840–1861)

3. William I (1861–1888)

4. Frederick III (1888)

5. Wilhelm II (1888–1918)

6. Friedrich Ebert (1918–1925)

7. Hans Luther (1925)

8. Walter Simons (1925)

9. Paul von Hindenburg (1925–1934)

10. Adolf Hitler (1934–1945)*

No, your interpretation does not work, because the ten horns, ten kings rule concurrently with each other - not spread across hundreds of years.

The ten kings will be associated only with head seven - the seventh king yet to come, the little horn person. The ten kings are all end time kings, i.e. ten leaders in the EU. The little horn person will be over them. And when the little horn person becomes the beast, the ten leaders in the EU, hand the EU over to him (the beast) to be dictator of the EU.

Also, the Holy Roman Empire used to consist of Italy and Germany. Why wouldn't it be Italy and Germany? And, as I said before, the two beasts in Revelation are consecutive, as well.

The Holy Roman Empire is not in bible prophecy. There is no reason to build a scenario around the Holy Roman Empire.

The Roman Empire - yes, it is in bible prophecy. But not the Holy Roman Empire.

I know you've invested a lot of time into your interpretation. But I think you've had to make a lot of complicated accommodations and stretches in order to make yours work out. It's actually simpler, this way.

Is understanding what is in Daniel and Revelation, complicated? Yes, it is.

The prophets like Daniel pondered over what they were told, but couldn't understand, because they did not have enough information. In the end times, the understanding will be unsealed to them of that generation.

Daniel 12:
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

If you go back to the 1st post of this thread. The three pictorials I made.

Revelation 17 - no crowns, time stamped the first century.

Revelation 12 - crowns on the heads, but not horns, time stamped at the beginning of the 7 years.

Revelation 13 - crowns on the horns, but not heads, one head mortally wounded but healed. time stamped at the beginning of the last 42 months of the 7 years.

In post 2, I explained why. Minky, in your understanding and theory, I don't think you have resolved those or even taken the issue of the crowns/no crowns into consideration, the significance of why they are different in chapters 17, 12, 13.

Yes, it is complicated. That's why you never hear any popular bible commentators address it.

And most people don't understand the concept of the Antichrist because they don't understand the concept of "the Christ" as being the King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation doesn't actually say a king dies... just as if we was fatally wounded.
"I saw one of his heads as if it had been fatally wounded, and his fatal wound was healed." I haven't actually checked every translation of as if, but the NASB sounds like "it appeared as if."

"was, and is not" and "was, is not, yet is" in Revelation 17:8, about the beast is wording that implies that someone has experienced death.

Similar use of such wording is in Revelation 1, speaking of Jesus, the Lord of Heaven who became a man for our sake, who was crucified...but was resurrected... and will be returning to this earth

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

 

[WhoIsLikeGod?]

No, your interpretation does not work, because the ten horns, ten kings rule concurrently with each other - not spread across hundreds of years.

Your 7 heads rule consecutively, not concurrently (Julius Caesar—>Nero), don't they? I would think a consistent pattern would exist. Also, do your 11 horns in Daniel's 4th beast and your 7 heads in Revelation 13 repeat? Why would they overlap and contain different quantities of kings? With different numbers of kings, I would think they'd prophesy different sets of kings.

You asked why the Holy Roman Empire? Because the Apocalypse is end times. The 4th beast in Daniel 2 & 7 was the Roman Empire. Which was revived with Charlemagne and Otto I. The Byzantine Empire fell in 1453. But the Holy Roman Empire lasted until 1806. Before the Napoleonic Wars, the Holy Roman Empire was a center of Christendom. When you think great conquerors, you think Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus the Great, Alexander the Great, Pompey the Great, Napoleon, Adolf Hitler, etc. My heads and horns in Revelation fit between Napoleon and Hitler, and they ruled concurrently with the same starting and ending points.

 

[Douggg]

Your 7 heads rule consecutively, not concurrently (Julius Caesar—>Nero), don't they? I would think a consistent pattern would exist.

The 7 heads rule sequentially. But not uninterrupted. Nero was the last of the historic Julio-Claudians. Six of the 7 kings have been accounted for, and their names are Julius Caesar, Augustus,
Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero.

Then in the end times, king 7 will come to power, the little horn person.

There are not crowns on the 7 heads in Revelation 17 because the fulfillment of the 7 kings is not until in Revelation 12, which has the 7 years in it before Jesus returns.

 

[WhoIsLikeGod?]

"was, and is not" and "was, is not, yet is" in Revelation 17:8, about the beast is wording that implies that someone has experienced death.

Similar use of such wording is in Revelation 1, speaking of Jesus, the Lord of Heaven who became a man for our sake, who was crucified...but was resurrected... and will be returning to this earth

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

For this I am not totally sure. But I know it's speaking about the beast, which doubles as both a kingdom and the first king of that kingdom, being the Antichrist. The Axis Powers once were, were not (between the Paris Peace Treaties in 1947 and and the Treaty of Rome in 1958), yet is. Here we have the European Union.

 

[WhoIsLikeGod?]

The 7 heads rule sequentially. But not uninterrupted. Nero was the last of the historic Julio-Claudians. Six of the 7 kings have been accounted for, and their names are Julius Caesar, Augustus,
Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero.

Then in the end times, king 7 will come to power, the little horn person.

There are not crowns on the 7 heads in Revelation 17 because the fulfillment of the 7 kings is not until in Revelation 12, which has the 7 years in it before Jesus returns.

Who are your 11 horns in Daniel 7?

 

[Douggg]

Also, do your 11 horns in Daniel's 4th beast and your 7 heads in Revelation 13 repeat?

There is no repeat - if you mean be that two sets of kings.

The ten horns in Daniel 7 are the ten end times EU leaders, forthcoming. The little horn of Daniel 7 is the seventh head of the Revelation pictorial. The little horn person will be the leader over the ten other leaders of the EU.

My heads and horns in Revelation fit between Napoleon and Hitler, and they ruled concurrently with the same starting and ending points.

There's the problem.

The ten horns rule with the beast for one hour. A short period of time. And the ten horns rule concurrently with each other. Not spread over hundreds of years.

"Concurrently" means at the same time. I think you are confusing concurrently with sequentially.

The ten kings live and rule at the same time - i.e concurretly.

Differently, the 7 heads live and rule at different times. One dies, then the next, then the next....



.

 

[Douggg]

For this I am not totally sure. But I know it's speaking about the beast, which doubles as both a kingdom and the first king of that kingdom, being the Antichrist. The Axis Powers once were, were not (between the Paris Peace Treaties in 1947 and and the Treaty of Rome in 1958), yet is. Here we have the European Union.

The terms "was, is not" and "was, is not, yet is" apply to persons, not kingdoms.

Differently, in Revelation 13, that pictorial, it represents both a kingdom and a king of that kingdom.

The body represents the kingdom. The one head, the head that is mortally wounded but healed, represent the king of that kingdom.

 

[WhoIsLikeGod?]

There's the problem.

The ten horns rule with the beast for one hour. A short period of time. And the ten horns rule concurrently with each other. Not spread over hundreds of years.

"Concurrently" means at the same time. I think you are confusing concurrently with sequentially.

The ten kings live and rule at the same time - i.e concurretly.

Differently, the 7 heads live and rule at different times. One dies, then the next, then the next....

Italy and Germany had little to do with each other after the dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire until their forming the Axis Powers with the Pact of Steel in 1939. So from 1939 until 1945, the 10 horns ruled with the 7 heads—one hour. The "beast" that the 10 horns ruled with was the alliance that was formed between Italy and Germany during WWII.

The horns don't need to rule concurrently. The heads didn't... Daniel 7's eleven horns didn't...

I'm using concurrently as "at the same time," consecutively as "in a row," and sequentially as "in a row," too.

 

[WhoIsLikeGod?]

The terms "was, is not" and "was, is not, yet is" apply to persons, not kingdoms.

Differently, in Revelation 13, that pictorial, it represents both a kingdom and a king of that kingdom.

The body represents the kingdom. The one head, the head that is mortally wounded but healed, represent the king of that kingdom.

Do your horns hate Babylon the Great and make her desolate and naked?

"And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire (Rev. 17:16)."

Mine do. “On Oct. 13, 1943, one month after Italy surrendered to Allied forces, it declared war on Nazi Germany, its onetime Axis powers partner.”

Oct. 13, 1943 | Italy Switches Sides in World War II

My ten kings had no kingdom as yet, also. The 10 rulers from 1806 to 1945 began as the German Confederation (“no kingdom as yet”), but received power as kings one hour with the beast (1871–1918).

German Confederation - Wikipedia

“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast (Revelation 17:12).”

Forty-two months match with the Holocaust, too. “And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (Rev. 13:5).”

25 November 1941 to 8 May 1945 = 1,260 days (42 months)

The Holocaust - Wikipedia

Ninth Fort massacres of November 1941 - Wikipedia (25 Nov. 1941)

Victory in Europe Day - Wikipedia (8 May 1945)

 

[Douggg]

The horns don't need to rule concurrently. The heads didn't... Daniel 7's eleven horns didn't...

The ten horns have their crowns on the Revelation 13 pictorial. Signifying they rule with the beast 42 months.

Italy and Germany had little to do with each other after the dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire until their forming the Axis Powers with the Pact of Steel in 1939. So from 1939 until 1945, the 10 horns ruled with the 7 heads—one hour. The "beast" that the 10 horns ruled with was the alliance that was formed between Italy and Germany during WWII.

The ten horns are ten persons. The head mortally wounded but healed, also the beast, that speaks the blasphemies against those in heaven - is a person.

During the time of the beast person - everyone will be required to have the number of the beast's name, his name, or mark of his name. To buy or sell.

Plus all of the trumpet and bowls judgments take place during the time of the ten horns, and the beast.

None of those things have taken place yet.

No temple has been built yet. For the abomination of desolation to take place. No two witnesses, which the beast person will kill.

 

[Douggg]

Do your horns hate Babylon the Great and make her desolate and naked?

The ten kings hate the harlot. The harlot has an inscription on her head - Mystery, Babylon the Great, mother of harlots and abominations of the earth.

It does not mean that the harlot is herself Babylon the Great. But that she has been influenced by Babylon the Great.

The harlot is the Vatican. The ten kings, ten leaders of the EU, will burn the Vatican to the ground, once the beast comes to power.