Crossing yourself

[MbiaJc]

GreenEyedLady

I think that I used it as a superstion sort of. That is my experience.

Why would you think that, if I may ask. I am trying to understand the Catholic Church.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Why would you think that, if I may ask. I am trying to understand the Catholic Church.

It was like kissing the cross hanging from my neck for luck. That kinda thing. You know? Does that make more sense? Making the sign of the cross is not just something that I did as a Catholic to "praise" God. I did it when I was scared as if to ward off bad luck, when I got bad news, if I almost got hit by a car, etc.

GEL

 

[arunma]

If you feel you have to play piano music before praying to get God's attention or to let him know you are getting ready to pray, or if you play the piano as a form of prayer, or if you plat piano instead of actually talking to God, then yes, it's time to get rid of that, too.

Although I quoted Lambslove, I would actually like to direct this at GEL. GEL, you've mentioned that your experience with Catholicism has caused you to turn the sign of the cross into a superstition. As Lambslove has said, a lot of things can be turned into superstitions, but that doesn't make those things bad. Perhaps the sign of the cross has become a stumbling block to you, and far be it from me to put stumbling blocks in the way of the believer. But there are many Christians who genuinely do not use the sign of the cross as a superstitious act, and I think it's wrong for us to condemn them. Provided that this method of worship is not seen as a replacement for a true relationship with Christ, do you agree that it isn't ungodly?

Anything that waters down the fact that Christ gave us total authority to speak to God directly anytime we want, that thing is an unnecessary ritual. It has more in common with the hindu practice of doing hand and body movements before, after or instead of prayer than it does with the Christian reality that God hears us whenever we speak to him.

I completely agree with that. Actually, I practiced Hinduism for most of my life, so I'm familiar with the idea of doing empty rituals without having any relationship with God. This legalism is precisely what roused the anger of Christ in the practices of the Pharisees, and it has no place in the church. But just as no one should use the sign of the cross in a legalistic manner, nor should we be legalistic about not using the sign of the cross. I think that it's quite possible to be a good Christian, and to make the sign of the cross during worship. Right?

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Provided that this method of worship is not seen as a replacement for a true relationship with Christ, do you agree that it isn't ungodly?

No, I do not. I do not agree that I bowed down, preformed the sign of the cross every time i stood in front of a graven image at church. I do not believe that is godly.

But just as no one should use the sign of the cross in a legalistic manner, nor should we be legalistic about not using the sign of the cross. I think that it's quite possible to be a good Christian, and to make the sign of the cross during worship. Right?

No, I don't believe it is right to do only because I did it mostly when bowing before the crucifix, which is a graven image. I don't do it now because I feel its not right. And honestly, no one has ever preached to me about this. This is just a conviction I got from God to stop doing it. To Him, it means nothing. I believe He prefers us fellowshipping with Him by reading his Word, singing praises to him, and praying on our knees. This is what I believe God wants from me, not some motion i did with my hands out of habit.
I am not going to sit here and bash people for making the sign of the cross. That is between them and the Lord. I am just telling my personal experience with it.
I do have to say, that I did preform it in front of the alter/cross at church, before I entered and left church, during the mass, when I prayed to give thanks, and any other time i prayed, I started with the sign of the cross.
So I guess some of it could be considered "praise" but I know myself and ALOT more Catholics out there that do it to just ward off bad vibes.

GEL

Ps. Do you still bow down to those Hindu gods?

 

[MbiaJc]

It was like kissing the cross hanging from my neck for luck. That kinda thing. You know? Does that make more sense? Making the sign of the cross is not just something that I did as a Catholic to "praise" God. I did it when I was scared as if to ward off bad luck, when I got bad news, if I almost got hit by a car, etc.

GEL

I pray when I get in trouble, wouldn't crossing be maybe the same as calling on God to help you? Are am I not looking at that the right way?

 

[arunma]

I am not going to sit here and bash people for making the sign of the cross. That is between them and the Lord. I am just telling my personal experience with it.

In that case, I think I understand your position on the issue. If you have a certain conviction requiring you to not make the sign of the cross, then far be it from me to oppose the Holy Spirit. All I'm trying to say is that we should not judge those in other denominations, or even in our own denomination (if such Baptists exist), who feel moved by the Spirit to make the sign of the cross. And from what you say, I think you agree.

So I guess some of it could be considered "praise" but I know myself and ALOT more Catholics out there that do it to just ward off bad vibes.

Many Catholics do consider it praise, which is why I feel compelled to defend their beliefs. I agree that it's wrong to make the sign of the cross (or to do anything else) in a superstitious manner.

Ps. Do you still bow down to those Hindu gods?

Of course not. That would be idolatry, which is a sin worthy of anathema. Why do you ask?

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Of course not. That would be idolatry, which is a sin worthy of anathema. Why do you ask?

Well, I made the sign of the cross before many graven images such as the cross, statues etc. therefore, you can understand why God has convicted me NOT to do that anymore!

 

[arunma]

Well, I made the sign of the cross before many graven images such as the cross, statues etc. therefore, you can understand why God has convicted me NOT to do that anymore!

Well, like I said, if that's your personal conviction, then I certainly wouldn't oppose the Holy Spirit. But from my point of view, since Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity, I don't view it as anything like idolatrous religions such as Hinduism.

 

[ZiSunka]

I completely agree with that. Actually, I practiced Hinduism for most of my life, so I'm familiar with the idea of doing empty rituals without having any relationship with God. This legalism is precisely what roused the anger of Christ in the practices of the Pharisees, and it has no place in the church. But just as no one should use the sign of the cross in a legalistic manner, nor should we be legalistic about not using the sign of the cross. I think that it's quite possible to be a good Christian, and to make the sign of the cross during worship. Right?

It's possible, but if you go into a catholic church or a catholic function of any sort (like a church picnic, etc, even some bingo games start with prayer!) and DO NOT make the sign of the cross before the prayer begins, it makes people scowl at you and assume that you are mocking them. I know from years of experience at many catholic churches that when everyone is making the sign of the cross, you better be doing it too or else. So, for catholics, crossing yourself is part and parcel of the practice of their religion and they are very legalistic about it. They would never dream of praying without it and sometimes use it in lieu of an actual prayer, much like a hindu prayer wheel or buddhist candles. Thus, it is a legalism, much more so than the refusal to cross one's self, because they don't think God will notice their prayer unless they do it.

 

[Filia Mariae]

It's possible, but if you go into a catholic church or a catholic function of any sort (like a church picnic, etc, even some bingo games start with prayer!) and DO NOT make the sign of the cross before the prayer begins, it makes people scowl at you and assume that you are mocking them. I know from years of experience at many catholic churches that when everyone is making the sign of the cross, you better be doing it too or else. So, for catholics, crossing yourself is part and parcel of the practice of their religion and they are very legalistic about it. They would never dream of praying without it and sometimes use it in lieu of an actual prayer, much like a hindu prayer wheel or buddhist candles. Thus, it is a legalism, much more so than the refusal to cross one's self, because they don't think God will notice their prayer unless they do it.

This is unbelievably rude and offensive. You are inaccurate and have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop making accusations about others based on your personal assumptions and judgements.

 

[daveleau]

Closed for staff review.