Creationists should abstain

[KerrMetric]

First of all you can't lump evolution as defined scientifically with the a priori assumption of the Darwinian Tree of Life. I don't know of a single Christian who has a problem with Mendelian genetics, Euclidean math or Newtonian physics.

I do - and some of them post on CF. Of course it doesn't help they don't understand those areas.

expect to be taken seriously by evangelicals.

And evangelicals subscribing to Creationism cannot be expected to be taken seriously on astronomy/physics when they seemingly cannot solve a quadratic never mind set up a PDE with appropriate boundary conditions or on geological dating when they cannot follow simple ODE's.

 

[mark kennedy]

I am not heaping satire on anything but blind literalism.

That is really nothing more then a heap of satire in and of itself.

And the credentials are important for one thing Mark - it shows you can handle the academic workload and think. Sure it's elitist but then all walks of life have an elite and their wannabes. Just like 99.999% of golfers have no chance of competing with Tiger Woods I know 99.999% of people have no chance competing with me on science knowledge and ability to research.

Aristotelean philosophy was the academic elite for a long time and they devoured the genuine article of science whole.

Reading and comprehension are not the same Mark.

Arguments from credulity are not the same thing as substantive reasoning either.

I'm not attacking Christianity

No, just undermining Christian conviction.

- which would be bloody odd now I think about it - I am attacking the simplistic embarrassment that is modern literalism.

Historical narratives are meant to be taken literally and it is anything but simplistic.

Pssst - Mark, you aren't a martyr. Just thought you should know.

Psst-Professor...martyr is the normal Greek word for witness and I've experienced God's power first hand.

Not on IQ point sum totals I'd wager -

I've known guys with genius IQs who could fry an egg and people of below average IQs who run successful businesses. IQ is not an intellectual trump card you can drop anytime you want to silence and argument you don't like.

certainly not by groups like AIG and ICR who don't have a single figure who could carry my academic jockstrap.

Yea I'm sure that you colleagues are just begging Creationists to get involved in your field of research.

By the way - we still get all the funding and all the press, your guys are stuck in Chick tracts, goofy church speaking tours and an embarrassment in Northern Kentucky that cost a bunch of donations from sheep.

My guys overturned the Roman Empire twice and spread the Gospel to every corner of the earth. My guys are William Tyndale, Simon Greenleaf, Paul Little, Michael Behe and Sir William Ramsey. No one will discuss my guys intelligently so I am left to these shallow, pedantic debates.

The evidence I offer in these shallow debate forums comes from peer reviewed scientific literature, the Human Genome Project and the Smithsonian Institute Human Family Tree.

My guys get up every day and go to work and could care less about you guys in your ivory towers. You guys treat them like fools because the trust Holy Prophets and Apostles over the academic elite so well versed in worldly wisdom.

My guys are many with a long and noble tradition. My guys turned the world upside down by turning the other cheek, going the second mile and giving asking nothing in return. My guys are openly ridiculed by your guys with reckless abandon yet hold fast to their faith.

Your guys are outnumbered and they know it.

 

[mark kennedy]

I do - and some of them post on CF. Of course it doesn't help they don't understand those areas.

And evangelicals subscribing to Creationism cannot be expected to be taken seriously on astronomy/physics when they seemingly cannot solve a quadratic never mind set up a PDE with appropriate boundary conditions or on geological dating when they cannot follow simple ODE's.

I'm just going to ask one question and you can go back to your serial trolling. Why on earth would someone with your education and academic standing spend so much energy ridiculing a religious view you consider so intellectually inferior?

I have studied Christian Apologetics and I'll let you in on a little secret. Stop attacking Creationists and Creationism will go away. Keep this up and there will be backlash. I know you don't believe it but my fear is that it will swing like a pendulum.

At any rate, I'm just puttering around here waiting for a response in my formal debate. After I'm done there I think I'm really, finally done with this nonsense forever.

 

[KerrMetric]

Psst-Professor...martyr is the normal Greek word for witness and I've experienced God's power first hand.

Psst Mark - the original Greek was a secular sense of the word. The Christian sense was and is different. Jeez - and here I thought you'd go with a Christian definition. Still a cherry picker I see.

Yea I'm sure that you colleagues are just begging Creationists to get involved in your field of research.

LOL - like they currently have anyone capable.

My guys overturned the Roman Empire twice and spread the Gospel to every corner of the earth. My guys are William Tyndale, Simon Greenleaf, Paul Little, Michael Behe and Sir William Ramsey.

Those aren't just your guys.
By the way - is that Behe the guy who under oath called astrology a science? ROTFLMAO. Get some better (and more intelligent) role models Mark than Behe.

The evidence I offer in these shallow debate forums comes from peer reviewed scientific literature, the Human Genome Project and the Smithsonian Institute Human Family Tree.

But you patently fail to understand it. Your whiffs at the plate on here are near legendary.

My guys get up every day and go to work and could care less about you guys in your ivory towers. You guys treat them like fools because the trust Holy Prophets and Apostles over the academic elite so well versed in worldly wisdom.

It's couldn't care less!!!!! Your sentence as structured implies you have a reasonable amount of caring for ivory tower denizens - which is not what you meant to convey.

My guys are many with a long and noble tradition. My guys turned the world upside down by turning the other cheek, going the second mile and giving asking nothing in return. My guys are openly ridiculed by your guys with reckless abandon yet hold fast to their faith.

Calm down Mark - you are not the only Christian here. You have a surfeit of hubris in this regard but your blowhard musings on this don't change the facts.

Your guys are outnumbered and they know it.

If you mean by that mainstream science it doesn't matter - we already won. We have the funding, we have the results and we have the ear of people when it really comes down to it. Many may follow like sheep the pastor and his uninformed blatherings about this debate but when it comes down to scientific/technological matters that affect their pocketbook or their quality of life they don't listen to pastors thank God.

 

[KerrMetric]

I'm just going to ask one question and you can go back to your serial trolling. Why on earth would someone with your education and academic standing spend so much energy ridiculing a religious view you consider so intellectually inferior?

Because I got sick of being called incompetent or a liar by a bunch of bleating sheep who can't even get past high school science. Plus it's really very little time or energy. As we have been typing the last hour or so I have been debugging code in another terminal window. And it's not like I get particularly challenged scientifically on here so my responses are almost always instantly on the fly - it helps I was gifted with a very good memory.

I have studied Christian Apologetics and I'll let you in on a little secret. Stop attacking Creationists and Creationism will go away. Keep this up and there will be backlash. I know you don't believe it but my fear is that it will swing like a pendulum.

And I have studied it quite extensively as well Mark. And I think bashing it on the head, which it deserves, actually works better. Sure, many of the truly uninformed are swayed by it but most people of above average abilities find it laughable in the extreme. Quite simply - it is simplistic childish nonsense.

At any rate, I'm just puttering around here waiting for a response in my formal debate. After I'm done there I think I'm really, finally done with this nonsense forever.

Well you know what they say about the door Mark.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Because I got sick of being called incompetent or a liar by a bunch of bleating sheep who can't even get past high school science. Plus it's really very little time or energy. As we have been typing the last hour or so I have been debugging code in another terminal window. And it's not like I get particularly challenged scientifically on here so my responses are almost always instantly on the fly - it helps I was gifted with a very good memory.

And I have studied it quite extensively as well Mark. And I think bashing it on the head, which it deserves, actually works better. Sure, many of the truly uninformed are swayed by it but most people of above average abilities find it laughable in the extreme. Quite simply - it is simplistic childish nonsense.

Well you know what they say about the door Mark.

"Simplistic Nonsense" Are you serious? It's a crime to read that book and think it actually happened? I'd rather have an IQ of room temperature than be even half as arrogant as you are. It appears the verses about intellectual "babes" is all too relavent.

 

[SonicBOOM]

The creationist sub-forum has now fallen to the Theistic Evolutionist agenda to drag creationists into highly contentious and divisive debates. I had hoped that Christian Forums would allow this sub-forum enough space for Creationists not interested in debate to talk among themselves.

My advice to creationists is simply this, abstain from posting here. If you think you can stick it out and make a difference then go for it. I have been here since the sub-forum was first suggested and one right after the other saw creationists ran out of here. Now the TEs are running the show, if you think you have a basis for fellowship with them then I wish you well.

As for me I'm going back to the debate forums where I am at least allowed to speak my mind.

Grace and peace,
Mark

why? Creationist is a valid belief that's worth our attention. I don't see any beneficial reason to delete something because it "might cause controversy". Who cares what people think right? Me? I personally take a Theistic Evolution stance... but that doesn't mean i think the Creationist and Evolution forums should be shut down.

As for those who like to cause trouble? This should actually encourage the Creationists! I think only those who fear for their own belief attack others who disagree with them.

Keep the Creationist forums and let the Creationists hold their own in debate. It's only fair right? I will be the first to admit that I have nothing to fear

 

[gluadys]

"Simplistic Nonsense" Are you serious? It's a crime to read that book and think it actually happened? I'd rather have an IQ of room temperature than be even half as arrogant as you are. It appears the verses about intellectual "babes" is all too relavent.

I think Jesus was referring to spiritual, not intellectual "babes". In scripture, references to wisdom generally mean spiritual wisdom not how much mundane knowledge one has or what one's intellectual capacity is.

 

[mark kennedy]

Psst Mark - the original Greek was a secular sense of the word. The Christian sense was and is different. Jeez - and here I thought you'd go with a Christian definition. Still a cherry picker I see.

The Biblical sense is the Christian sense.

LOL - like they currently have anyone capable.

You mean allowed.

Those aren't just your guys.

You don't know who I am or who my guys are.

By the way - is that Behe the guy who under oath called astrology a science? ROTFLMAO. Get some better (and more intelligent) role models Mark than Behe.

Whatever.

But you patently fail to understand it. Your whiffs at the plate on here are near legendary.

Answered by pedantic satire.

It's couldn't care less!!!!! Your sentence as structured implies you have a reasonable amount of caring for ivory tower denizens - which is not what you meant to convey.

It sounds like your getting my message loud and clear.

Calm down Mark - you are not the only Christian here. You have a surfeit of hubris in this regard but your blowhard musings on this don't change the facts.

Traditional Christian theism is not tolerated in modern academics.

If you mean by that mainstream science it doesn't matter - we already won. We have the funding, we have the results and we have the ear of people when it really comes down to it. Many may follow like sheep the pastor and his uninformed blatherings about this debate but when it comes down to scientific/technological matters that affect their pocketbook or their quality of life they don't listen to pastors thank God.

"He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful." (Matt 13:22)

 

[mark kennedy]

And I have studied it quite extensively as well Mark. And I think bashing it on the head, which it deserves, actually works better. Sure, many of the truly uninformed are swayed by it but most people of above average abilities find it laughable in the extreme. Quite simply - it is simplistic childish nonsense.

Well you know what they say about the door Mark.

It's childish to mock things you know nothing about. You can call an atheistic/agnostic worldview science but don't expect me to consider it Christian.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." (Matt 16:24-27)

Don't you worry, I know how to use the door. I also know how to shake the dust off my feet after shunning these divisive and contentious debates.

 

[KerrMetric]

It's childish to mock things you know nothing about. .

But Mark, I do know something about this debate. My guess is that I have read quite a bit more than you have and for far longer in this area. Remember I get paid to sit on my backside and read and have for twenty odd years.

 

[KerrMetric]

"Simplistic Nonsense" Are you serious?

I am often sarcastic on here - but I was dead serious when I said simplistic nonsense. Don't give me a global flood nonsense when I can falsify it - don't tell me thee speed of light has drastically changed when I can falsify it - don't tell me the pre-Adamic earth was some oxygen rich paradise with a vapour canopy when I can falsify it - don't tell me I can't do my job when you can't do simple calculus. Get the idea - this literal Genesis as scientific fact is simplistic nonsense for those who cannot understand what the real evidence states.

It's a crime to read that book and think it actually happened? I'd rather have an IQ of room temperature than be even half as arrogant as you are. It appears the verses about intellectual "babes" is all too relavent.

You can call it arrogant or whatever you want but the FACT is I hear all these blatherings from people who are absolutely clueless about the scientific arguments they make. And the other FACT is you don't see me ever make such errors. If you take time to notice I never criticise someones faith in Christ unlike the aforementioned scientific buffoons who seem oh so quick to pull out the "I'm a real Christian and you are not card".

I challenge the error filled scientific statements on here not salvation. The thing that ticks off some people is that they can't stand the silliness pointing out and they can't stand the fact they have never caught me in a scientific error.

 

[HypnoToad]

"Simplistic Nonsense" Are you serious? It's a crime to read that book and think it actually happened? I'd rather have an IQ of room temperature than be even half as arrogant as you are.

Exactly why Kerr was recently added to my ignore list. I simply can't stomach the attitude anymore.

I've never had to add anyone to my ignore list before the recent surge of evolutionist condescension.

 

[KerrMetric]

Exactly why Kerr was recently added to my ignore list. I simply can't stomach the attitude anymore.

I've never had to add anyone to my ignore list before the recent surge of evolutionist condescension.

Waaaaah.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I am often sarcastic on here - but I was dead serious when I said simplistic nonsense. Don't give me a global flood nonsense when I can falsify it - don't tell me thee speed of light has drastically changed when I can falsify it - don't tell me the pre-Adamic earth was some oxygen rich paradise with a vapour canopy when I can falsify it - don't tell me I can't do my job when you can't do simple calculus. Get the idea - this literal Genesis as scientific fact is simplistic nonsense for those who cannot understand what the real evidence states.

You can call it arrogant or whatever you want but the FACT is I hear all these blatherings from people who are absolutely clueless about the scientific arguments they make. And the other FACT is you don't see me ever make such errors. If you take time to notice I never criticise someones faith in Christ unlike the aforementioned scientific buffoons who seem oh so quick to pull out the "I'm a real Christian and you are not card".

I challenge the error filled scientific statements on here not salvation. The thing that ticks off some people is that they can't stand the silliness pointing out and they can't stand the fact they have never caught me in a scientific error.

Then why do you think it was written the way it was? To fool people? Or is it just allegory? (j/w, i'm not trying to trap anyone.)

 

[KerrMetric]

Then why do you think it was written the way it was? To fool people? Or is it just allegory? (j/w, i'm not trying to trap anyone.)

To be honest I don't know why it was written the way it was - but then neither do you.

But I do know it was not written as an accurate history unless we are being conned.

 

[gluadys]

Then why do you think it was written the way it was? To fool people? Or is it just allegory? (j/w, i'm not trying to trap anyone.)

What is "just" an allegory?

Is an allegory somehow inferior to other modes of communication? In what way?

Why do you mention "allegory" and fooling people together?

Do you think people are easily fooled by allegories?

Do you really think allegories are all that difficult to understand?

btw, I am not trying to trap anyone either. But I am (was until I retired) a teacher. And my subject was English language and literature.

Literature is full of allegories and other figurative language and I have never found they really give people all that hard a time.

So I am just asking you to think a little about the assumptions behind your questions and your wording.

What is "just an allegory" supposed to mean?

 

[Galle]

Exactly why Kerr was recently added to my ignore list. I simply can't stomach the attitude anymore.

I've never had to add anyone to my ignore list before the recent surge of evolutionist condescension.

I see very little arrogance from KerrMetric, only intense frustration. And considering the immense arrogance I see daily from creationists (indeed, this entire thread is a good example), that frustration is quite justified. I would suggest, for your own benefit, that you reconsider your choices on this matter.

Of course, if you're happy about the reputation creationists have, feel free to stay the course. But do stop complaining about a reputation that you personally have helped to build.

 

[theIdi0t]

Don't you worry, I know how to use the door. I also know how to shake the dust off my feet after shunning these divisive and contentious debates.

You know, I've heard the old "shaking the dust of my feet" quite a few times from you, I even bided you farewell quite a few times. You say you are leaving, but you're always here.

I assumed the verse about shaking the dust of your feet, meant to do it once and not return, not repeatedly return just to shake the dust off your feet again?

You must have a lot of dirt stuck in between your toes.

 

[theIdi0t]

.