Creationists: How does creation explain the existence of parasites?

[jacknife]

I think sometimes that people use the "I don't understand why ..." or "I'm confused as to why ..." as code for "How dare you!"

Im not so sure, it's hard to be angry at something you don't understand.

 

[pitabread]

I think sometimes that people use the "I don't understand why ..." or "I'm confused as to why ..." as code for "How dare you!"

When I do use those phrases as code, it's usually a stand-in for, "I actually already know the flaws in what you're proposing, but I just want to see if you can come to that same realization."

 

[AV1611VET]

And here, I think your just making stuff up.

Didn't I back it up with Scripture?

 

[dlamberth]

That's why I like your avatar so well.

It's a beautiful rose.

Nice and long-stemmed and fragrant.

With thorns.

A fitting picture of the Creation and the Fall.

Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

In the spiritual tradition I follow we look at the Rose as an example of even though we humans can be thorny, we're still very beautiful and sacred to behold.

 

[dlamberth]

Didn't I back it up with Scripture?

not that I've seen.

 

[AV1611VET]

not that I've seen.

Post 10 please.

 

[dlamberth]

Hey dlam glad to see your still floating around the fourms.

I've been in the World Religion sub-forum for ever. After they closed it down I came back here. Glad to see your still here too.

 

[dlamberth]

Post 10 please.

I want to make sure I understand. Your interpretation of that particular Biblical story is really about all of Creation and not just the Pharaoh and Egypt as has been pinned in the Bible? I can understand why your alone in your interpretation. What I do like though is your take on the continuation of the creating process as highlighted in post #10.

 

[AV1611VET]

I want to make sure I understand. Your interpretation of that particular Biblical story is really about all of Creation and not just the Pharaoh and Egypt as has been pinned in the Bible? I can understand why your alone in your interpretation. What I do like though is your take on the continuation of the creating process as highlighted in post #10.

Nevermind ... it's over your head.

 

[dlamberth]

Nevermind ... it's over your head.

That your misinterpreting scripture and making stuff up in the process?

 

[AV1611VET]

That your misinterpreting scripture and making stuff up in the process?

Thanks for the QED.

 

[Job 33:6]

Many parasitic organisms have complex lifecycles; in some cases they are dependent on multiple species for their reproductive cycle.

Take for example, Leucochloridium paradoxum. It's a parasitic organism that reproduces via eggs inside of birds. Then the fecal matter containing the eggs are consumed by snails. The eggs hatch inside the snail and then proceed to develop into a sporocyst with various branches throughout the snail's body. The ends of the branches then develop into a broodsac which infest the snail's eyestalk.

In a highly disturbing aspect of mimicry, the broodsacs will pulsate to attract predation by birds while simultaneously mind-controlling the snail:

(Look up "Leucochloridium" on Youtube if you want to see this in action. Warning: it's a bit gross.)

Birds will then attack the snail, ripping out the broodsac from the eyestalk and then the whole cycle starts over.

This is obviously a highly complicated lifecycle that clearly defies biological evolution. Therefore it must have involved the hand of an intelligent designer.

That said, how and why would an intelligent designer create such an organism? Imagine having a parasite in your eyeball that forces you wait around until it's pecked out by a bird. What purpose does such a parasite serve?

This looks kind of like the problem of evil wrapped up in a discussion on parasites. I think that when we look at the book of Job, we ultimately come to a conclusion that we can't know what God's ultimate plan is or reason for creating a world which contains evil. If I were a dinosaur, I might ask why God would allow a bolide the size of Texas to kill hundreds of millions of life forms. Though perhaps it was so that mammals could thrive so that we could have this conversation today.

Only God would ever truly know the answer to these questions of why suffering exists, be it in parasites or asteroid impacts or even if I just stub my toe on a book shelf. Only God would know the ultimate plan for it all.

And in the book of Job, this is what it essentially boils down to.

 

[Job 33:6]

This looks kind of like the problem of evil wrapped up in a discussion on parasites. I think that when we look at the book of Job, we ultimately come to a conclusion that we can't know what God's ultimate plan is or reason for creating a world which contains evil. If I were a dinosaur, I might ask why God would allow a bolide the size of Texas to kill hundreds of millions of life forms. Though perhaps it was so that mammals could thrive so that we could have this conversation today.

Only God would ever truly know the answer to these questions of why suffering exists, be it in parasites or asteroid impacts or even if I just stub my toe on a book shelf. Only God would know the ultimate plan for it all.

And in the book of Job, this is what it essentially boils down to.

Sometimes I also think about, if I were God what would I create? Would I make something that exists in a very specific way, perhaps mankind could be perfect, all identical genes, billions of twins. Though without variation these people might risk death in am ever changing world. The only way to remove pain and suffering would be to create us all as Gods ourselves. But I'm not sure that there really could be multiple God's, all infinitely existing at the same time.

Sometimes I consider that the world has to be this way. A world without pain would be a world without freedom, without individual minds. If we consider a scenario where a child is starving and someone makes a choice to feed that child, it would be a beautiful thing. But could a world exist where no one ever was hungry? Maybe this world would have infinite food, on a planet of an infinite size?

For a world to exist without pain, the world couldn't exist at all. So what would creation look like, if there were no suffering?

Often times our suffering comes from failed expectations. I expect a slice of pizza to have a certain taste, I bite it and it's not that good. I then suffer.

In a world without suffering, do I no longer taste? Does pizza taste infinitely good? How could I bake an infinitely good pizza? I wouldn't bake it at all, there would be no cooking at all. Then I would simply suffer because I could no longer enjoy cooking or baking because the pizza was already perfect right out of the freezer.

To truly remove suffering, I'm not sure that creation could even exist. And therefore perhaps suffering must exist by default.

 

[dlamberth]

Thanks for the QED.

Like you wrote in post#55...

Most people I talk to don't realize that God created cooties afterwards as punishment for sins.

...your alone in your interpretation.

 

[dlamberth]

This looks kind of like the problem of evil wrapped up in a discussion on parasites. I think that when we look at the book of Job, we ultimately come to a conclusion that we can't know what God's ultimate plan is or reason for creating a world which contains evil. If I were a dinosaur, I might ask why God would allow a bolide the size of Texas to kill hundreds of millions of life forms. Though perhaps it was so that mammals could thrive so that we could have this conversation today.

Only God would ever truly know the answer to these questions of why suffering exists, be it in parasites or asteroid impacts or even if I just stub my toe on a book shelf. Only God would know the ultimate plan for it all.

And in the book of Job, this is what it essentially boils down to.

I have the hardest time with the concept that God has to have a plan for everything. Life happens with no plan, it just happens. The parasite in the OP is about evil only because someone made it appear so. But really in the end it just life being life. No one is out there allowing catastrophic to happen, except maybe us human beings as we enter the 6th great extinction with no plan to do otherwise. But life is Creative as it takes all sorts of forms, even in the suffering. It's what we do with it that matters. And as a consciously evolved being we have the privilege to do a lot, maybe even become a more human, Human Being.

 

[jacknife]

I've been in the World Religion sub-forum for ever. After they closed it down I came back here. Glad to see your still here too.

Yeah I took a break from the fourms and joined up with a small hospital in time for covid to hit. It's been a wild ride ive experienced things that brought me great joy and things that broke me in healthcare and i would do all of them again. And i come back and tbey shut down world religions. Nice to see AV still arguing the same things thpugh.

 

[dlamberth]

Nice to see AV still arguing the same things though.

I like AV. He has an interesting sense of humor and is someone we can count on to make conversation happen and boy, does he ever stick to his guns no matter what.

Yep, we're going over the same stuff in different forms.

What were you doing on the front lines in the hospital?

 

[jacknife]

I like AV. He has an interesting sense of humor and is someone we can count on to make conversation happen and boy, does he ever stick to his guns no matter what.

Yep, we're going over the same stuff in different forms.

What were you doing on the front lines in the hospital?

I worked as a PCT basically a glorified CNA. I am also a member of the code team if you ever watch medical dramas where they all get the defibrillators out on someone? I take part in that.

 

[eleos1954]

That is truly bizarre and yet amazing at the same time.

Sin brought DEATH (of any kind) into our world. Sin effected everything God originally created (everything was good and VERY good) no death. So, that what we see that involves death and/or destruction wasn't as He originally created.

God is all about life.

 

[pitabread]

Sin effected everything God originally created (everything was good and VERY good) no death. So, that what we see that involves death and/or destruction wasn't as He originally created.

How was it created then?

Do you think that these parasites didn't previously exist? Did they exist in some other form? How did these parasites come to be?