Creationists: Explain your understanding of microevolution and macroevolution

[Speedwell]

I know exactly what they are claiming. It's not rocket science.

What do you take those claims to be?

 

[renniks]

You ought to read the whole essay, not just the mined quote from Creation.com
Darwin's Influence on Modern Thought

Take something simple we have all seen, the ape to man image that is used to support human evolution. It's false and scientists know it's been proven false, but it's still used because it's convincing to the uninformed. How is that not promoting falsehoods? Instead they have a vast variety of skeleton fragments that are interpretated certain ways because of Darwins failed theories. Throw out the whole model and they can be interpreted quite differently.

 

[Speedwell]

Um he started it.

I have evidence for my claim--I can cite evolutionary biologists who explain what they think evolution is. Where did you learn what you think evolution is?

 

[Speedwell]

Take something simple we have all seen, the ape to man image that is used to support human evolution. It's false and scientists know it's been proven false, but it's still used because it's convincing to the uninformed. How is that not promoting falsehoods? Instead they have a vast variety of skeleton fragments that are interpretated certain ways because of Darwins failed theories. Throw out the whole model and they can be interpreted quite differently.

How do you know? How do you know it's been proven false and scientists know it? Who proved it false? Why would scientists lie about it? What would be the point?

 

[renniks]

I have evidence for my claim--I can cite evolutionary biologists who explain what they think evolution is. Where did you learn what you think evolution is?

"Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."

(Darwin)
Quite naive of him really.

 

[Speedwell]

"Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."

(Darwin)
Quite naive of him really.

What is the point of that quote?

 

[renniks]

How do you know? How do you know it's been proven false and scientists know it? Who proved it false? Why would scientists lie about it? What would be the point?

As what they are: some are apes and some are humans.
A sloping forehead and big jaw doesn't equal a half man creature. It just shows us some of our ancestors had different bone structures.

 

[renniks]

What is the point of that quote?

You asked.

 

[Speedwell]

You asked.

I asked a technical question. You responded with a poetic riff by a scientist who has been dead for 140 years--and another mined quote from Creation.com

As what they are: some are apes and some are humans.
A sloping forehead and big jaw doesn't equal a half man creature. It just shows us some of our ancestors had different bone structures.

No, it doesn't--not if that's all the evidence you take into account.

 

[AV1611VET]

Darwin's Influence on Modern Thought

Reminds me of this book I once read:

From the book:

Though their bodies lie cold and dormant, the grave cannot contain the influence these seven men have had on today's world. They continue to rule because they have altered the thinking of society. They generated philosophies that have been ardently grasped by masses of people but are erroneous and antiscriptural. Today these ideas pervade our schools, businesses, homes, and even the church.

As we continue to unknowingly subscribe to their philosophies, we keep the grave open for Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, Julius Wellhausen, John Dewey, Sigmund Freud, John Maynard Keynes, and Soren Kierkegaard. Dave Breese warns us of the dangers of believing unreservedly the ideas of these seven men. He also reminds us of the only man whose life and words we can trust completely--Jesus Christ.

 

[SelfSim]

Though their bodies lie cold and dormant, the grave cannot contain the influence these seven men have had on today's world. They continue to rule because they have altered the thinking of society. They generated philosophies that have been ardently grasped by masses of people but are erroneous and antiscriptural. Today these ideas pervade our schools, businesses, homes, and even the church.

Is he serious?

He thinks there's none of those seven philosophies espoused in the scriptures?
Lol!

As we continue to unknowingly subscribe to their philosophies, we keep the grave open for Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, Julius Wellhausen, John Dewey, Sigmund Freud, John Maynard Keynes, and Soren Kierkegaard. Dave Breese warns us of the dangers of believing unreservedly the ideas of these seven men. He also reminds us of the only man whose life and words we can trust completely--Jesus Christ.

What nonsense!

Those seven men merely distinguished different ways of thinking when they were speaking philosophically. Believing in those philosophies, is optional.

 

[sjastro]

Reminds me of this book I once read:

From the book:

Though their bodies lie cold and dormant, the grave cannot contain the influence these seven men have had on today's world. They continue to rule because they have altered the thinking of society. They generated philosophies that have been ardently grasped by masses of people but are erroneous and antiscriptural. Today these ideas pervade our schools, businesses, homes, and even the church.

As we continue to unknowingly subscribe to their philosophies, we keep the grave open for Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, Julius Wellhausen, John Dewey, Sigmund Freud, John Maynard Keynes, and Soren Kierkegaard. Dave Breese warns us of the dangers of believing unreservedly the ideas of these seven men. He also reminds us of the only man whose life and words we can trust completely--Jesus Christ.

What an absolute shocker.
For a start John Maynard Keynes (Bertrand Russell was intimidated by his towering intellect) is not cold and dormant as he was cremated and why isn't Mel Blanc on the list?
Bugs Bunny reruns continue to corrupt the youth of today for their graphic portrayal of violence and non realism for a coyote repeatedly falling off a cliff and surviving.

 

[AV1611VET]

Bugs Bunny reruns continue to corrupt the youth of today for their graphic portrayal of violence and non realism for a coyote repeatedly falling off a cliff and surviving.

Then you'll want this:

Exposes the sinister truth behind He-Man, the Smurfs, the Care Bears, Voltron, and others.

 

[Mr Laurier]

Then you'll want this:

Exposes the sinister truth behind He-Man, the Smurfs, the Care Bears, Voltron, and others.

Wow. Thats some top of the sewer floor, conspiracy fantasy

 

[sjastro]

Then you'll want this:

Exposes the sinister truth behind He-Man, the Smurfs, the Care Bears, Voltron, and others.

On a serious note why isn't Adolf Hitler on the list?
Hitler's legacy is kept alive through right wing extremism use of social media.
Since I have mentioned Keynes previously why is he on the list?
This is what the book mentions about John Maynard Keynes.

The sixth man is John Maynard Keynes, an economist. He wrote an analysis of world economy after World War II, and he immediately gained great fame. He had an economic point of view that was quite amazing. After the Hoover administration and the Great Depression, we began to wonder about our economic situation. Franklin Roosevelt heard of this young English economist, and consulted with him. Keynes said, “Look, it is the responsibility of government to have full employment. It is not the responsibility of government to have a balanced budget at the expense of the unemployed. Why should the government so penalize the unemployed? The government prints money. In fact, its duty is to go into debt in order to produce prosperity.” He came up with concepts such as “dynamic debt.” Government debt produces prosperity. You may not think that is too devastating an idea, but the essence of Keynes' idea was introduced into the minds of government leaders. He originated the expression, ”We only owe it to ourselves.”

Subsequently, beginning with the Roosevelt administration, we begin to spend money like drunken sailors on a weekend in Honolulu, and we have never recovered. As a consequence of Keynes' ideas, the government of the United States is now trillions of dollars in the red. The effect is inflation.

Compare the cost of products today to ten or twenty years ago. Think of the possibility of ten dollars for a loaf of bread, and twelve dollars for a quart of milk. Things could get so far out of hand that it would be impossible to save money.

Many people in United States aren't worried about inflation like they should be. Remember the Weimar Republic, before Nazi Germany came to power? You had to take a wheelbarrow full of money down to the bakery shop to get a loaf of bread—the next day two wheelbarrows full, and finally things became impossible. The people were disillusioned and heartsick. Children were starving. They said, “We need a human savior. We need a ruler that can bring order out of this chaos.” That human ruler was furnished—his name was Adolf Hitler. He cost the world one and one-half trillion dollars and millions of lives. Worldwide inflation today is excused because of Keynesian economics, the worst form of economic insanity ever to have been invented by the mind of man. The world today is going to experience a similar kind of devastating inflation.

You may have read the book How You Can Profit from the Coming Devaluation by Harold Brown. He says the best investments are: gold stocks, Swiss francs, silver coins, and a couple of other things. But you must also have a little house out in the country where you can live autonomously for at least 90 days, because when the revolution comes, there will be revolution in our streets. Hundreds of thousands will die in pools of their own blood. Inflation will incite the uncontrollable indignation of people already inflamed against the establishment and, as a result, Western civilization could well cry for another human savior. The Bible says that human savior will be Antichrist.

Keynesian economics is responsible for all the economic problems we face today. We may say to ourselves, “I am prosperous. I've got money in the bank. I'm living well.” But we are now living on the unearned incomes of our great-grandchildren. They will pay the bill for the way we are living today. No one is living off his own money. We are living on the staggering debt that our government built up. The unwritten law of the universe is that sooner or later, every penny must be paid.

The author is clueless.
I'm sure you have even heard of the term economic stimulus which is an an example of Keynesian economics.
It was economic stimulus used by governments that prevented the global financial crisis developing into a global depression in 2008 and is currently being used during the COVID pandemic.
Governments do not aim for a full 100% employment rate but around a 97% employment rate and economic stimulus is only applied to sluggish economies otherwise inflation is a problem.

Preventing global depressions and the resultant human misery of massive unemployment was Keyne's objective which would appear to be a desirable characteristic not that of a villain.

 

[AV1611VET]

Wow. Thats some top of the sewer floor, conspiracy fantasy

Glad you like it!

 

[Mr Laurier]

Glad you like it!

You do understand that these conspiracy fantasists were making up their nonsense to sell books and lectures to the most gullible.
They didn't believe the crap they were publishing. It was all about milking the sheep.
The whole "satanic panic" was manufactured to make these people rich and famous.

 

[AV1611VET]

You do understand that these conspiracy fantasists were making up their nonsense to sell books and lectures to the most gullible.
They didn't believe the crap they were publishing. It was all about milking the sheep.
The whole "satanic panic" was manufactured to make these people rich and famous.

LOL

 

[Frank Robert]

Clearest explanation ever....at least on an internet forum.

Also the clearest example of creationist misconstruction of evolution with a sprinkling of correct items for show.
If you what for the best website to explain micro and macro evolution, here is one that can't be beat.
Understanding Evolution - Berkeley

 

[Frank Robert]

Take something simple we have all seen, the ape to man image that is used to support human evolution. It's false and scientists know it's been proven false, but it's still used because it's convincing to the uninformed. How is that not promoting falsehoods? Instead they have a vast variety of skeleton fragments that are interpretated certain ways because of Darwins failed theories. Throw out the whole model and they can be interpreted quite differently.

The image of the ape to man is simply an image of relatedness and never was meant to support human evolution. Common ancestry and genetics support species relatedness and evolution. When creationists come up with a better theory that better explains the evidence and makes better predictions let us know.