Creation

[Aaron112]

When, as it is, the very first sentence/ claim/ premise in the op (1st post) is so very contrary to Scripture, and all that follows therefore cannot be trusted, and instead of getting any honesty or any better the errors continue to grow in number and in depth of deception, there is nothing I nor anyone else is able to do. Without repentance there is no healing. Total need to start over , abandoning all that was thought before, praying for Jesus and His Father to reveal truth is the only known hope.
No amount of "dialogue", "bait", "deception", arguing, debate,
even no amount of Scripture
is going to be helpful until after a total renouncing of whatever and a new clean slate IF GOD PERMITS.

Hi Aaron
Thank you for your reply but if I have said something wrong then please say what is wrong using Scripture please it may be helpful to other believers thank you

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[davetaff]

When, as it is, the very first sentence/ claim/ premise in the op (1st post) is so very contrary to Scripture, and all that follows therefore cannot be trusted, and instead of getting any honesty or any better the errors continue to grow in number and in depth of deception, there is nothing I nor anyone else is able to do. Without repentance there is no healing. Total need to start over , abandoning all that was thought before, praying for Jesus and His Father to reveal truth is the only known hope.
No amount of "dialogue", "bait", "deception", arguing, debate,
even no amount of Scripture
is going to be helpful until after a total renouncing of whatever and a new clean slate IF GOD PERMITS.

Hi Aaron 112
Thank you for your reply but I stand by what I have said

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Aaron112]

I stand by what I have said

So?
That's similar or the same as every worldly human, in many multitudes of error.

 

[davetaff]

So?
That's similar or the same as every worldly human, in many multitudes of error.

Hi Aaron 112
Thank you for your post but I would be grateful if can proove my error from scripture what I have said is based on scripture.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Aaron112]

what I have said is based on scripture.

So? When the enemy/ false gospels/ come along every day all over the earth,
they likewise claim what they say is based on scripture, but they lead many to death and destruction.
The error of what you say you believe is plain and blunt>

Hi
Creation again how should we read the creation account in Genesis I believe it should be understood starting when Noah stepped of the Ark and God began a new creation the only thing he needed to create was mankind in his image

With such grievous error, no more is needed nor do I think should be discussed anywhere because it only causes distraction , death, on the way of destruction. ("the way of a man seems right (to him) but leads to destruction")

 

[davetaff]

So? When the enemy/ false gospels/ come along every day all over the earth,
they likewise claim what they say is based on scripture, but they lead many to death and destruction.
The error of what you say you believe is plain and blunt>

With such grievous error, no more is needed nor do I think should be discussed anywhere because it only causes distraction , death, on the way of destruction. ("the way of a man seems right (to him) but leads to destruction")

Hi Aaron
Thank you for your reply but you jest can't say I'm in error you have to proove it from scripture when Noah stepped of the ark there was no man in the image of God Adam was dead

Genesis 5:5 ESV
[5] Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.

Genesis 5:5 Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died. | English Standard Version 2016 (ESV) | Download The Bible App Now

Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.

bible.com

So it stands to reason God would have to create a new man in his image that man would have to be the body of Christ which he presents to the father on his return the first man in his image he created was Israel

Hosea 11:1 ESV
[1] When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. | English Standard Version Revision 2016 (ESV) | Download The Bible App Now

When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.

bible.com

Israel was man in the image of God in the flesh which God rejected and made a new man in his image in the spirit which is the body of Christ which he will present to the Father on his return.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[David Lamb]

Hi Aaron
Thank you for your reply but you jest can't say I'm in error you have to proove it from scripture when Noah stepped of the ark there was no man in the image of God Adam was dead

But it was mankind in general, not just Adam, that was created in the image of God, for as we see later on in Genesis:

“"Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.” (Ge 9:6 NKJV)

God said this after the death of Noah. The image is marred by sin, but that would have been true even of Adam once he had sinned.

 

[Job 33:6]

But it was mankind in general, not just Adam, that was created in the image of God, for as we see later on in Genesis:

“"Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.” (Ge 9:6 NKJV)

God said this after the death of Noah. The image is marred by sin, but that would have been true even of Adam once he had sinned.

Indeed.

And what was the vehicle of God's image that delivered Noah through the waters? The ark.

And what was God's image protected by, as Moses floated down the nile? The ark of Moses, his tebah.

And when Moses grew up and was delivered out of Egypt, with the Isrealites, he was delivered through the waters of the red sea. Much like Noah was delivered through the waters of the flood.

Hosea 11:1

 

[davetaff]

But it was mankind in general, not just Adam, that was created in the image of God, for as we see later on in Genesis:

“"Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.” (Ge 9:6 NKJV)

God said this after the death of Noah. The image is marred by sin, but that would have been true even of Adam once he had sinned.

Hi David
Thank you for your post man in the image of God what dose he look like the best example we have is Israel who is the image of God in the flesh so Israel and Christ are the sons of God brothers and the older brother Israel kills the younger brother Christ sounds familiar Cain killing able from the beginning we are told the end
The man who sheds the blood of man is Israel when they crucified Christ which was nessarsery for the forgiveness of sins.
So the multitude Christ will present to the Father on his return will be divided up in the same way as Israel this is man in the image of God.

love and Peace
Dave

 

[stevevw]

I believe he flooded the earth prior to the age that we presently live in. The mountains/hills literally shifted during that time in his anger. It was not noted that they move during Noah's flood.
Jeremiah 4 touches on this prior time and takes us right to Genesis 1:2 so there is no doubt of the time period he is talking about. That's also why when we look at a globe/maps today, it looks like a giant puzzle that used to fit together. And it's also why certain animal fossils are found in locations like the US that are used to a warmer climate like Africa, etc. It was literally paradise at one point. The bible is not a science or history book but I think God gives us enough to piece some of it together if we take it as a whole. I believe this prior age is when Satan had his overthrow/downfall. I believe God destroyed that age and started again with this one. Peter states people are willingly ignorant that the heavens are of "old" and the earth was standing in and out of water. That is Genesis 1:2, not Noah's flood.

And this present age could not have started with with Noah because Noah is descended from Adam. But when we know this fact, we look back at Genesis 1:2 and see that yes, the earth is covered in water and why? We know in Isaiah, he did not create it that way. He created it to be inhabited, and it was. It then "became" without form and void -a ruined wasteland if you will.

Just sharing my beliefs.

Thankyou that is so interesting. I have studied this topic and find it so interesting. Tryng to understand the preflood world. I believe we can find traces of it often deep in the layers.

What I find striking is that there is a theme with the preflood cultures that is very paganistic. Its as though from the fall people were almost immediately building idols to false gods. Gods of about Gods creation and not God. It also appears that these cultures were not dumb hunter gatherers but quite sophisticated. We also have geological and archeological evidence for a global sized flood behind the demise of the preflood cultures.

Often these sites show ruin, smashed monuments like some giant earthquake had hit. Many cultures having stories that these preflood cultures were gods and they found the ruins and remade them.

There also seems to be a gap in history for many cultures. We can also trace the growth pathways for how people may have dispersed after the flood to different parts of the world with Noahs sons. This can be traced back to ancient ruins found around eastern Turkey near Mt Ararat. Its realy interesting as we are literally discovering the bible in the cultures and archeology.

 

[davetaff]

Hi Stevevw
Thank you for your post I have also wondered about the time before the flood how can we equate the God of Love destroying the entire population of the world except for Noah and everything on the ark makes no sense unless it was the water of the word of God a form of baptism and they will be brought back in the resurrection so in reality they did not die but put to sleep so God keeps his law thou shalt not kill.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[JulieB67]

Thankyou that is so interesting.

I find it interesting as well. And I really believe Gen 1, verse 2 has to be taken back to the Hebrew to get the actual definition as well which then actually speaks to how old this earth really is. "the words -"without form and void" are Hebrew words "tohu" and bohu they literally means, desolate wasteland, wilderness, nothing, vain, emptiness, etc. The word "was" should be translated "became or come to pass because we know from God's very own words in Isaiah he did not create it that way. He did not create it "tohu va bohu". And then yes, we see in Jeremiah 4 the reason why it came to pass as it did. It makes perfect sense and aligns with the science of how old the earth is.

 

[stevevw]

I find it interesting as well. And I really believe Gen 1, verse 2 has to be taken back to the Hebrew to get the actual definition as well which then actually speaks to how old this earth really is. "the words -"without form and void" are Hebrew words "tohu" and bohu they literally means, desolate wasteland, wilderness, nothing, vain, emptiness, etc. The word "was" should be translated "became or come to pass because we know from God's very own words in Isaiah he did not create it that way. He did not create it "tohu va bohu". And then yes, we see in Jeremiah 4 the reason why it came to pass as it did. It makes perfect sense and aligns with the science of how old the earth is.

The void is something even non religious people can relate to. The earth and universe had no life and the creation of life from the vegetation to humans was a different kind of reality that entered the baron universe and it came to life.

 

[davetaff]

The void is something even non religious people can relate to. The earth and universe had no life and the creation of life from the vegetation to humans was a different kind of reality that entered the baron universe and it came to life.

Hi that God has created everything that is is not in question the only thing he needed to create after the flood was man in his image which would be realised in Christ at his second coming then this creation would be complete man in the image of God is the body of Christ which he will present to the Father on his return SO it seams Adam is a whole multitude of people not one man

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[David Lamb]

SO it seams Adam is a whole multitude of people not one man

Love and Peace
Dave

Have I misunderstood you? Adam a whole multitude of people?

“And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place.” (Ge 2:21 NKJV)

Not: "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on a whole multitude of people, and they slept; and He took one of their ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place.”

“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.” (Ge 3:20 NKJV)

Not, "And a whole multitude of people called their wives' names Eve, because they were the mothers of all living.”

“Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the LORD."” (Ge 4:1 NKJV)

Not: “Now a whole multitude of people knew their wives, and they conceived and bore Cain, and said, "We have acquired a man from the LORD."”

Or from the New Testament:

“the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.” (Lu 3:38 NKJV)

Not: “the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of a whole multitude of people, the sons of God.”

Adam was a real person, one person.

 

[davetaff]

Have I misunderstood you? Adam a whole multitude of people?

“And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place.” (Ge 2:21 NKJV)

Not: "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on a whole multitude of people, and they slept; and He took one of their ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place.”

“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.” (Ge 3:20 NKJV)

Not, "And a whole multitude of people called their wives' names Eve, because they were the mothers of all living.”

“Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the LORD."” (Ge 4:1 NKJV)

Not: “Now a whole multitude of people knew their wives, and they conceived and bore Cain, and said, "We have acquired a man from the LORD."”

Or from the New Testament:

“the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.” (Lu 3:38 NKJV)

Not: “the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of a whole multitude of people, the sons of God.”

Adam was a real person, one person.

Hi David
Thank you for your reply you said

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place.” (Ge 2:21 NKJV

This reminds of what happend on the cross of Christ when his side was pierced and the water and blood came out and from these the bride of Christ was created same story.
You said
“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.” (Ge 3:20 NKJV)

The bride of Christ is the mother of all the living she is the church all those chosen from the foundation ofth world.
You said
“Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the LORD."” (Ge 4:1 NKJV)

Eve also bore able two brothers the elder kills the younger as Israel kills Christ again the creation before the flood mirrors the creation after the flood
You said
Not: “Now a whole multitude of people knew their wives, and they conceived and bore Cain, and said, "We have acquired a man from the LORD

No they did not but Mary bore Christ the son of God what we must remember is that the first Adam the last Adam and Israel all began with one man chosen by God and they grew and expanded to large numbers you are basing your observations on the finished Adam which is Christ and his body the story of creation before the flood follows the same line as the creation after the flood
You said

Adam was a real person, one person

Quite right he began as one then God from him created a whole host built up after the pattern of Israel who is Gods son and the image of his Father God

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[David Lamb]

Hi David
Thank you for your reply you said

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place.” (Ge 2:21 NKJV

This reminds of what happend on the cross of Christ when his side was pierced and the water and blood came out and from these the bride of Christ was created same story.
You said
“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.” (Ge 3:20 NKJV)

The bride of Christ is the mother of all the living she is the church all those chosen from the foundation ofth world.
You said
“Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the LORD."” (Ge 4:1 NKJV)

Eve also bore able two brothers the elder kills the younger as Israel kills Christ again the creation before the flood mirrors the creation after the flood
You said
Not: “Now a whole multitude of people knew their wives, and they conceived and bore Cain, and said, "We have acquired a man from the LORD

No they did not but Mary bore Christ the son of God what we must remember is that the first Adam the last Adam and Israel all began with one man chosen by God and they grew and expanded to large numbers you are basing your observations on the finished Adam which is Christ and his body the story of creation before the flood follows the same line as the creation after the flood
You said

Adam was a real person, one person

Quite right he began as one then God from him created a whole host built up after the pattern of Israel who is Gods son and the image of his Father God

Love and Peace
Dave

I don't agree that we are all Adams. If we are Christians, we are no longer in Adam, but in Christ, the "last Adam".

 

[davetaff]

I don't agree that we are all Adams. If we are Christians, we are no longer in Adam, but in Christ, the "last Adam".

Hi David
Thank you for your reply but I have veterinary said we are Adam what I have said is all believers comprise the body of Chist the multitude he presents to the Father on his return

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[David Lamb]

Hi David
Thank you for your reply but I have veterinary said we are Adam what I have said is all believers comprise the body of Chist the multitude he presents to the Father on his return

Love and Peace
Dave

But you did say: "complete man in the image of God is the body of Christ which he will present to the Father on his return SO it seams Adam is a whole multitude of people not one man." That seems to be saying that the multitude presented by the Son to the Father are Adam. Incidentally, what does "I have veterinary said" mean? Here in the UK, "veterinary" is animal medicine, and a vet, short for veterinary surgeon, is an animal doctor, but that doesn't fit in your post.

 

[davetaff]

Hi David
Thank you for your reply where the word veterinary comes from I have no idea must be my old pad and I must read my post properly before I post.
Christ is the last Adam he is the head his body the multitude of believers they are devided up in the same way as Israel was We have God the Father head of all things Jesus Christ high priest through whom all things were created then we have the bride of Christ all those chosen from the foundation of the world then we have the children of God the multitude of believers Christ and his body are the last Adam.

Love and Peace
Dave