Creation vs. Evolution

[Dayton]

I know this topic has already been done to death, but it is something worth discussing.

I am a young-earth Creationist, I believe the earth was created by God in six days 6,000-10,000 years ago. My belief in a young eath is based on the Bible, God's word. I do not believe in evolution, which is an attempt by man to take God out of science. Evolution says that the earth is the result of random chance, and that life just happened to appear on earth. Evolution also says that man evolved from tree-dwelling apes, and that we are still nothing more than advanced apes. The Bible says that God formed us out of the dust of the ground and breathed life into us. According to the Bible, we did not come from apes, we were created by God in our present form. There is little evidence for animal evolution and even less for human evolution, and most of the so-called hominid fossils are either 100% ape or 100% human.

Evolution is a faith-based religion that attempts to take God out of the Creation of the earth and the Creation of man.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Your biggest mistake is that you've characterized evolution as atheism. Evolution (and science in general) says nothing about the existence or nonexistence of God. In short, it's neutral on the subject, because there is no way to apply science to God (unless you can think of one).

The Theory of Evolution is merely a description of the mechanisms by which populations of biological organisms change from one generation to the next. That's it.

And welcome to the forums.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

I know this topic has already been done to death, but it is something worth discussing.

True, your claims are nothing new here.

I am a young-earth Creationist, I believe the earth was created by God in six days 6,000-10,000 years ago.

This is false given all available evidence. The earth definitely is not that young, and old earth ages are substantiated by radiometric dating and a wide variety of geologic features discussed here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t41209

My belief in a young eath is based on the Bible, God's word.

Your belief is based upon a particular interpretation of the Bible which may or may not be correct. This also indicates that regardless of the mountains of evidence that disprove your position, you will maintain it because you have no rational basis for that belief.

I do not believe in evolution, which is an attempt by man to take God out of science.

God was never a part of science to begin with, as science is agnostic. It cannot make any statement on the existence or non-existence of any deity. Evolution is not an attempt at promoting atheism considering Darwin was a Christian when he wrote Origin.... Evolution is nothing more than an attempt to explain all available observable facts without trying to adhere to a preconceived conclusion.

Evolution says that the earth is the result of random chance,

False. The theory of evolution makes no statement with respect to the formation of the earth. Furthermore, the actual theory of evolution is not dependent entirely on random chance because natural selection is a non-random process.

and that life just happened to appear on earth.

False. Evolution makes no statement on the origin of life.

Evolution also says that man evolved from tree-dwelling apes, and that we are still nothing more than advanced apes.

So you disagree with the theory of evolution because you do not like the implication that you share a common ancestor with other primates?

The Bible says that God formed us out of the dust of the ground and breathed life into us. According to the Bible, we did not come from apes, we were created by God in our present form.

According to your human interpretation of the Bible. The creation story could very well be non-literal which would make your position baseless.

There is little evidence for animal evolution and even less for human evolution, and most of the so-called hominid fossils are either 100% ape or 100% human.

The evidence for evolution has been gone over numerous times on this forum with entire threads dedicated to positive evidence for evolution. I suggest you search the forum before making such incorrect statements. You can either substantiate your claim or retract it.

Evolution is a faith-based religion that attempts to take God out of the Creation of the earth and the Creation of man.

Evolution is not faith-based because it is based upon evidence. Since faith is belief without evidence, the theory of evolution is not grounded in faith.

You are also falsely equating evolution with atheism. Even if your creationism-or-bust position were correct, it would be easy as pie to disprove Christianity by arguing against your position.

Finally, no evolution is not a religion. You might want to start looking around the forum instead of posting the same old falsehoods we see time and time again, and you'd realize that many of your claims have already been addressed.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

It's also worth noting that any atheists that argue that God can be disproved via science are false. The only thing that can be disproved would be certain claims relating to what God could or could not have done (i.e. created the Earth 6000 years, flooded it 4500 years ago, etc). But in no way does disproving those claims actually disprove God.

 

[Cantuar]

Evolution is a faith-based religion that attempts to take God out of the Creation of the earth and the Creation of man.

Nonsense. Most theists accept evolution. It's not possible for theists to accept a religion that's anti-God; therefore, evolution isn't a religion that's anti-God. Large numbers of research scientists are theists of one stripe or another. Are you claiming that they're delusional or that they're lying (and hence, in the case of research scientists, committing criminal fraud by using taxpayer funds to promote a scientific theory they really know is false)? Because I don't see what else you could possibly be saying. And you had better have some hard data to back up your position if you really are claiming that evolutionary biology researchers are misusing government money.

 

[Dayton]

The evidence for young-earth Creationism:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

http://www.drdino.com/

http://www.icr.org/

 

[jon1101]

The evidence for young-earth Creationism:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

http://www.drdino.com/

http://www.icr.org/

AiG, Kent Hovind, and ICR are very well known on this board, and I have yet to see a single argument of theirs that has gone unrefuted. Please post a specific argument and I'm sure someone will be glad to respond to it.

-jon

 

[Siliconaut]

Sorry, but each of these sites (and especially Hovind's) has been found wanting: They willingly distort facts, leave out the data contradicting creationism and thus lie to their readers.


Plus, you haven't answered a single post in this thread, which - at the very least - is impolite. You can either back up your statements with verifiable facts, or you have to retract them.

Believe me, this is a battle you're fighting against christianity itself, because by tying christianity to already falsified facts, you end up destroying the very thing you think to protect.

A final piece of good advice: Read some of the other threads regarding evolution/creationism, so you don't simply repeat the blunders your predecessors have made.

 

[ifriit]

Correct statements are in blue, incorrect in red. Questionable ones are in purple.

I know this topic has already been done to death, but it is something worth discussing.

I am a young-earth Creationist, I believe the earth was created by God in six days 6,000-10,000 years ago. My belief in a young eath is based on the Bible, God's word. I do not believe in evolution, which is an attempt by man to take God out of science. Evolution says that the earth is the result of random chance, and that life just happened to appear on earth. Evolution also says that man evolved from tree-dwelling apes, and that we are still nothing more than advanced apes. The Bible says that God formed us out of the dust of the ground and breathed life into us. According to the Bible, we did not come from apes, we were created by God in our present form. There is little evidence for animal evolution and even less for human evolution, and most of the so-called hominid fossils are either 100% ape or 100% human.

Evolution is a faith-based religion that attempts to take God out of the Creation of the earth and the Creation of man.

Feel free to ask for clarification.

 

[Dayton]

Sorry, but each of these sites (and especially Hovind's) has been found wanting: They willingly distort facts, leave out the data contradicting creationism and thus lie to their readers.


Plus, you haven't answered a single post in this thread, which - at the very least - is impolite. You can either back up your statements with verifiable facts, or you have to retract them.

Believe me, this is a battle you're fighting against christianity itself, because by tying christianity to already falsified facts, you end up destroying the very thing you think to protect.

A final piece of good advice: Read some of the other threads regarding evolution/creationism, so you don't simply repeat the blunders your predecessors have made.

Forgive me for not responding earlier.

I didn't know that there would be so many evolutionists on this board. Certain Creationist arguments have been refuted, but there are some legitimate ones that refute evolution. I am not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination, so I may have posted some wrong information.

 

[Dayton]

AiG, Kent Hovind, and ICR are very well known on this board, and I have yet to see a single argument of theirs that has gone unrefuted. Please post a specific argument and I'm sure someone will be glad to respond to it.

-jon

Do you know of any Creationist sites that are more up to date?

 

[Dayton]

Your biggest mistake is that you've characterized evolution as atheism. Evolution (and science in general) says nothing about the existence or nonexistence of God. In short, it's neutral on the subject, because there is no way to apply science to God (unless you can think of one).

The Theory of Evolution is merely a description of the mechanisms by which populations of biological organisms change from one generation to the next. That's it.

And welcome to the forums.

Evolution is not atheism, but it is incompatible with Christianity. The Bible says that God created the world in six days. Mainstream science says that the earth was formed by natural forces billions of years ago.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

The evidence for young-earth Creationism:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

http://www.drdino.com/

http://www.icr.org/

It's not like these sites are foreign to us. Many of us have spent considerable time going over that material.

Those sites present evidence that relies on omitting/ignoring evidence those organizations don't like and manipulating data to fit a preconceived conclusion. Of course Dr. Dino is the worse--not only is he not a scientist--he is a liar and a con man. His arguments are pointless.

Furthermore, you can present all the evidence FOR young earth creationism you like, but there are still mounds of evidence AGAINST young earth creationism, and that's what really matters. If there is evidence that illustrates that young earth creationism is false, as there is, then it doesn't matter how much evidence you present in favor of your position. Some of that evidence falsifying young earth creationism from purely a geological perspective is found here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t41209

There are plenty of other threads that discuss disproofs of young earth creationism from a wide variety of topics from cosmology, biology, biodiversity, etc. throughout the forum if you look.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

Evolution is not atheism, but it is incompatible with Christianity. The Bible says that God created the world in six days. Mainstream science says that the earth was formed by natural forces billions of years ago.

It is compatible with Christianity, but incompatible with a literal interpretation of your religious text.

 

[Dayton]

Nonsense. Most theists accept evolution. It's not possible for theists to accept a religion that's anti-God; therefore, evolution isn't a religion that's anti-God. Large numbers of research scientists are theists of one stripe or another. Are you claiming that they're delusional or that they're lying (and hence, in the case of research scientists, committing criminal fraud by using taxpayer funds to promote a scientific theory they really know is false)? Because I don't see what else you could possibly be saying. And you had better have some hard data to back up your position if you really are claiming that evolutionary biology researchers are misusing government money.

I believe the Bible, and the Bible says that we did not evolve. I never said that scientists are committing fraud, you're putting words in my mouth.

 

[jon1101]

Do you know of any Creationist sites that are more up to date?

I'm afraid not. I gave up on YEC awhile ago

-jon

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

Do you know of any Creationist sites that are more up to date?

There would be no such thing as an up-to-date website for young earth creationism given that it was disproven almost two centuries ago. It is only a very tiny minority of people who hold onto that belief and they do so because of religious convictions rather than science.

 

[Dayton]

It's not like these sites are foreign to us. Many of us have spent considerable time going over that material.

Those sites present evidence that relies on omitting/ignoring evidence those organizations don't like and manipulating data to fit a preconceived conclusion. Of course Dr. Dino is the worse--not only is he not a scientist--he is a liar and a con man. His arguments are pointless.

Furthermore, you can present all the evidence FOR young earth creationism you like, but there are still mounds of evidence AGAINST young earth creationism, and that's what really matters. If there is evidence that illustrates that young earth creationism is false, as there is, then it doesn't matter how much evidence you present in favor of your position. Some of that evidence falsifying young earth creationism from purely a geological perspective is found here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t41209

There are plenty of other threads that discuss disproofs of young earth creationism from a wide variety of topics from cosmology, biology, biodiversity, etc. throughout the forum if you look.

There is evidence against evolution, like the lack of transitional forms and the inaccuracy of carbon dating. The earth was created fully mature, so it only appears to be billions of years old. The Flood can also explain some of the geological problems.

P.S. Am I the only Creationist here?

 

[jon1101]

I believe the Bible, and the Bible says that we did not evolve. I never said that scientists are committing fraud, you're putting words in my mouth.

But that's only one interpretation of the Bible. It is quite possible that, considering the culture to whom it was initially given, the Bible was never intended to be a science book. Since we see that evolution a viable theory when we study the physical universe that God created with the capacity to reason that God gave us, I believe that evolution is an accurate description of the process God used to create man in his image.

-jon

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

There is evidence against evolution, like the lack of transitional forms

False. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

and the inaccuracy of carbon dating.

Any measurement technique will have some degree of inaccuracy. That is why measurements are not presented as a single number, but rather than a range of numbers (date +/- uncertainty). However it has not been shown that carbon dating is useless. Quite the contrary. It can be calibrated with accuracy with tree-ring data and can be cross referenced with counting varves.

Additionally, there are a wide variety of dating methods, and they very typically correspond with each other when cross referenced. Even if C-14 dating were invalidated, there are numerous other nuclide decay dating methods that could be used instead and are much more useful anyway. C-14 dating only works for about 50,000 years before present, whereas something like K-Ar dating works with accuracy for billions of years.

The earth was created fully mature, so it only appears to be billions of years old.

There is no way to validate that statement. By that argument it is equally valid to say that the earth formed yesterday and we were all placed here with our memories intact.

If the earth appears to be billions of years old by all available evidence, then the most logical conclusion is that the earth is in fact billions of years old.

The Flood can also explain some of the geological problems.

The flood never happened, so no, it can't. I already linked to the thread that falsifies a global flood twice.