Creation vs. Evolution

[Pete Harcoff]

Evolution is not atheism, but it is incompatible with Christianity. The Bible says that God created the world in six days. Mainstream science says that the earth was formed by natural forces billions of years ago.

Many Christians, including a number on this board, have no trouble reconciling evolution and other ideas in modern science with Christianity.

 

[Gracchus]

There is evidence against evolution, like the lack of transitional forms and the inaccuracy of carbon dating.

Please trot out your evidence. Transitional forms do exist. Carbon dating, properly performed, is accurate within stated limits. Or perhaps you will support your statements?

The earth was created fully mature, so it only appears to be billions of years old. The Flood can also explain some of the geological problems.

The Earth was created last Thursday, at 8:57 A.M. GMT, with all the evidence for a mature Earth, and evolution, including false memories. So what you're saying is that God is playing a practical joke?

P.S. Am I the only Creationist here?

Creationists get scarce when they realize that they have come unarmed to intellectual battle.

 

[jon1101]

There is evidence against evolution, like the lack of transitional forms

This is not evidence against evolution. There are transitional fossils, and there are reasons why we shouldn't expect a complete fossil record of every species ever to exist to be found.

and the inaccuracy of carbon dating.

Carbon 14 dating is not used to date objects older than around 50,000 years. There are other perfectly legitimate forms of radiometric dating that can be used for older objects. I suggest you read:
Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective

The earth was created fully mature, so it only appears to be billions of years old.

I suppose this is possible, just as it is possible that all memory is an illusion, but wouldn't this invalidate the doctrine of general revelation? After all, if the study of nature inherantly yields unreliable information, God cannot reveal himself through nature.

The Flood can also explain some of the geological problems.

Do you have any evidence indicating that the entire earth was ever flooded at once?

P.S. Am I the only Creationist here?

Nope. There are others.

-jon

 

[Dayton]

Thanks for your opinions, but I will believe God's word .

With all due respect, I don't care what evidence you have for evolution. The Bible doesn't say that we evolved, it says that God Created us. Why would I believe what imperfect men tell me when the infallible Word of God tells me otherwise?

 

[Shakuhachi]

Wouln't it be nice if we could just focus on one book for the answers to all our problems and questions? The Bible tells us more of why and what it means than it tells us how. The word of God comes to us through human beings. We must be careful not to confuse the two, attributing to God thoughts of men. To take the beautiful prose of the creation stories and seek to make science of them is to miss their genius.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Wouln't it be nice if we could just focus on one book for the answers to all our problems and questions? The Bible tells us more of why and what it means than it tells us how. The word of God comes to us through human beings. We must be careful not to confuse the two, attributing to God thoughts of men. To take the beautiful prose of the creation stories and seek to make science of them is to miss their genius.

Agreed. Or to expand on the quote from signature:

"And Biblical literalism is the enemy of real faith. Ironically, it brings a kind of grade school science mentality to the reading of the Bible. Such reading should be a deep and life-changing experience. The literal -minded flatten the landscape of the sacred texts. They remove the dimension of complexity and depth that really does change lives by opening eyes and melting hearts." - source

 

[jon1101]

Thanks for your opinions, but I will believe God's word .

With all due respect, I don't care what evidence you have for evolution. The Bible doesn't say that we evolved, it says that God Created us.

Yes it does say that God created us. What's wrong with the belief that God created through evolution?

Why would I believe what imperfect men tell me when the infallible Word of God tells me otherwise?

Your interpretation of the Bible not infallible. I concur that the Bible is accurate, but since we are all fallible and sometimes misinformed, I think it is best to keep an open mind regarding its true meaning. After all, both special and general revelation are viable avenues for God to communicate to us, and the latter just so happens to point to evolution.

-jon

 

[lucaspa]

The Bible says that God formed us out of the dust of the ground and breathed life into us.

The Genesis 2 creation story says this. Genesis 1 has God speaking humans (men and women) into existence. Since there are two contradictory creation stories, it is a BIG hint that neither is to be interpreted literally like you are doing.

According to the Bible, we did not come from apes, we were created by God in our present form.

According to your interpretation of the Bible. That is NOT the same as "the Bible". According to the evidence God left in His second book -- Creation -- we did indeed evolve from a previous species.

There is little evidence for animal evolution and even less for human evolution, and most of the so-called hominid fossils are either 100% ape or 100% human.

There is massive evidence for both animal and hominin evolution. Please go to page 2 for the thread "Transitional Fossils".

As for hominid fossils, please go to the American Museum of Natural History in New York and look at the hominin fossils, modern human skeletons, and modern ape skeletons on display. Pay particular attention to Lucy. All hominin fossils are definitely NOT 100% H. sapiens and equally NOT 100% ape.

Evolution is a faith-based religion that attempts to take God out of the Creation of the earth and the Creation of man.[/QUOTE]

 

[lucaspa]

Thanks for your opinions, but I will believe God's word.

You will believe in YOUR interpretation of the Bible. Since that interpretation contradicts what God has clearly told us both in His book AND in His Creation, I'll listen to God and not you.

With all due respect, I don't care what evidence you have for evolution. The Bible doesn't say that we evolved, it says that God Created us. Why would I believe what imperfect men tell me when the infallible Word of God tells me otherwise?

So now you've made the Bible a false idol to worship. Remember, your interpretation is made by fallible men. Unless, of course, you have managed to think that you are God.

Also remember that God created. That means that ALL the evidence in Creation that we use to conclude God created by evolution was put there by, guess who?, GOD!! So you've deliberately decided not to listen to God, but only yourself.

This should make for some interesting conversation between you and God at judgement. Good luck explaining why you deny Him.

 

[lucaspa]

Evolution is not atheism, but it is incompatible with Christianity. The Bible says that God created the world in six days. .

The Bible also says (Genesis 2:4b) that God created the heavens and the earth WITHIN A SINGLE DAY ("beyom" in Hebrew). So now you have 2 contradictory creation stories in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.

That's one huge internal indication that neither creation story is meant to be read literally. There are several other indications.

What we have in YEC (6 day creation in the recent past) is a man-made theory from a man-made interpretation of the Bible. It is not only fallible, but falsified. God simply didn't create that way.

 

[Cantuar]

Certain Creationist arguments have been refuted, but there are some legitimate ones that refute evolution.

Such as?

 

[lucaspa]

Forgive me for not responding earlier.

I didn't know that there would be so many evolutionists on this board. Certain Creationist arguments have been refuted, but there are some legitimate ones that refute evolution.

I am not aware of any legitimate Creationist arguments that refute evolution. Perhaps you'd like to tell us which ones you think these are.

Remember, Hovind is also arguing theism vs atheism. Look at his challenge to "evolutionists". He is asking them to prove atheism, not evolution.

 

[Cantuar]

I believe the Bible, and the Bible says that we did not evolve. I never said that scientists are committing fraud, you're putting words in my mouth.

If you didn't say scientists are committing fraud, then what are you saying?

You've announced that the Bible is the True word of God and that evolution is incompatible with the True word of God. You've announced that it isn't possible for Christians to accept evolution.

I've pointed out, as have others, that there are Christians working as research scientists in the field of evolutionary biology. Therefore, if Christians know evolution is false but are taking government money to carry on researching it and publishing results and conclusions in support of it, they're committing fraud.

Oh, and before you come back with assertions that no Christian can accept evolution, I suggest you check out websites by Keith Miller, Kenneth Miller, and Denis Lamoureux (all of whom are also scientists), and read the link in my signature. What are these men if not Christians?

 

[Cantuar]

With all due respect, I don't care what evidence you have for evolution.

Fine. Then stop pretending there's scientific evidence against it. Because we all know that science isn't what you're concerned about here, unlike some of the rest of us.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Agreed. Or to expand on the quote from signature:

"And Biblical literalism is the enemy of real faith. Ironically, it brings a kind of grade school science mentality to the reading of the Bible. Such reading should be a deep and life-changing experience. The literal -minded flatten the landscape of the sacred texts. They remove the dimension of complexity and depth that really does change lives by opening eyes and melting hearts." - source

It degrades the Bible. BTW if God breathed life into dirt where did all out water come from. We know that the human body is like over 90% water. God started with wind and dirt. unless he had a lot of water in his breath. This is the kind of rediculous thinking literalism leads us to.

 

[Dayton]

It degrades the Bible. BTW if God breathed life into dirt where did all out water come from. We know that the human body is like over 90% water. God started with wind and dirt. unless he had a lot of water in his breath. This is the kind of rediculous thinking literalism leads us to.

God is above and beyond logic and reason. You can't use human logic to explain God's Creation.

 

[Shakuhachi]

God is above and beyond logic and reason. You can't use human logic to explain God's Creation.

If you want to rely on illogic and nonreason to undersatand the universe you wont get very far. Might as well go back to the stone age.

 

[lucaspa]

God is above and beyond logic and reason. You can't use human logic to explain God's Creation.

Aren't we made "in the image of God"? Why can't humans made in the image of God understand God's creation?

Isn't God logical and reasonable? If God is irrational and unreasonable, then how can we trust Him?

In trying to preserve your literal reading of the Bible, you are destroying God. This is one of the main dangers of creationism for Christianity: creationism will use ANYTHING to defend creationism, no matter what effect that has on Christianity. It is one of the reasons I view creationism as worship of a false idol. Defend the idol at all cost. It's all about creationISM, not about God.