Creation Sabbath Origin

[Leaf473]

Interesting, previously you said you didn’t need to keep any commandments and now it is how to obey the commandments. The scriptures are a lamp to our feet Psalms 119:105 so our ideas don’t really matter, if one if wanting to follow God. The scriptures are filled with how to keep the Sabbath holy, so best to find direction from God’s Word and not based on our own ideas.

Well hello again, SabbathBlessings!

When I talked about not keeping any commandments, was it in the context of the law of Moses?

If you'd like to discuss which commandments we keep, that would be super! You probably know that one of the first things I'm going to ask you about is the lesser known commandments. That's because it's in the lesser known commandments that partial law keeping theologies don't hold up, in my experience.

And may the peace of the Lord be always with you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well hello again, SabbathBlessings!

When I talked about not keeping any commandments, was it in the context of the law of Moses?

If you'd like to discuss which commandments we keep, that would be super! You probably know that one of the first things I'm going to ask you about is the lesser known commandments. That's because it's in the lesser known commandments that partial law keeping theologies don't hold up, in my experience.

And may the peace of the Lord be always with you.

You previously said you did not need to keep any laws. You said it both ways over the years, need to keep, not keep. I also think you might be confusing commandments with laws or commands. There are only Ten Commandments that are personally written by God and spoken by God. Exodus 34:28, Exodus 20

 

[Leaf473]

You previously said you did not need to keep any laws. You said it both ways over the years, need to keep, not keep.

It probably depends on the context, and what I perceived the person I'm talking to means by "keep".

I also think you might be confusing commandments with laws or commands. There are only Ten Commandments that are personally written by God and spoken by God. Exodus 34:28, Exodus 20

That's true that God wrote the ten commandments with his finger on Stone.

But there are other commandments in the law of Moses, e.g. Leviticus 27
These are the commandments which the Lord commanded Moses for the children of Israel on Mount Sinai.

 

[Leaf473]

@SabbathBlessings

Also, if you'd like to discuss the differences between laws and commandments, that would be great! But again, the lesser known laws are going to come up. We probably want to move to a different thread, too.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

@SabbathBlessings

Also, if you'd like to discuss the differences between laws and commandments, that would be great! But again, the lesser known laws are going to come up. We probably want to move to a different thread, too.

Thanks for the suggestion, I think our past shows we can never get past the greater laws, so probably won’t make a lot of sense. God bless you though in seeking His Word.

 

[Cornelius8L]

If you would like more on how to keep the Sabbath according to the scriptures I would be happy to share,

Let's see how you would share how to keep the Sabbath according to the scriptures. Please share.

I still don’t get it. If you don’t think my view breaks the commandment, why do you ask for scripture to support it? Appreciate your enlightenment.

Instead of understanding the pattern of truth, you are seeking word-by-word text to support your reasoning of making six days different from one day even though you understood I was saying the one day should be extended/magnified to the other six days with the presented supporting scriptures, while not breaking the commandment. Which you agree Jesus also did that to the not murdering commandment.

The way I understood it, your contradiction is that I cannot do that, but you agree on how I practice it.

Sad you would take the Pharisee side who were spying on Jesus and accused Him of breaking the Sabbath, which He did not.

But since you keep insisting to have a direct record of the apostle or Jesus stating they break the Sabbath, I presented one. But sad to see that you do not understand the writing of Apostle John, who followed Jesus, who wrote the Gospel book. Apostle John wrote and said it, not me.

“Remember the Sabbath day” means “men for the Sabbath” if you read literally, no? As God blessed the Seventh-day, is a Seventh-day human? If you may claim we should read into the text, then you should do the same for Hebrews 4 and Colossians 2 I use to support my view of every today.

Interesting, previously you said you didn’t need to keep any commandments and now it is how to obey the commandments.

Btw, I believe he was saying he didn’t keep the way you explained it, but the way I do.

Anyway, let’s not be like what was spoken by Prophet Isaiah concerning those who cannot connect the scriptures.

Isaiah 28:10-13
For they hear: “Order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line; a little here, a little there.” Indeed, with mocking lips and foreign tongues, He will speak to this people to whom He has said: “This is the place of rest, let the weary rest; this is the place of repose.” But they would not listen. Then the word of the LORD to them will become: “Order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line; a little here, a little there,” so that they will go stumbling backward and will be injured, ensnared, and captured.​

Actually, I am very keen to how you would share how to keep the Sabbath according to the scriptures. Please share. Thanks

God Bless and Happy Seventh-day Sabbath

 

[Cornelius8L]

“Remember the Sabbath day” means “men for the Sabbath” if you read literally, no? As God blessed the Seventh-day, is a Seventh-day human?

An example, “remember the Lord” means “men for the Lord,” no? Or “Lord for men”? So “Lord is there for men”? You get where I’m coming from, right?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

An example, “remember the Lord” means “men for the Lord,” no? Or “Lord for men”? So “Lord is there for men”? You get where I’m coming from, right?

No I don’t get where you’re coming from to be honest, but I understand God’s commandment. I don’t believe God would give a commandment that we couldn’t keep, that we will be judged by James 8:10-12, its not the God I believe in. The Sabbath is a memorial of Creation, to remember everything God has done for us. The Sabbath is about communion with our Creator, on His holy day. God deemed the seventh day as His holy day Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, Genesis 2:1-3 , I am not going to convince you otherwise and thats okay, this all gets sorted out soon enough. Take care.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Let's see how you would share how to keep the Sabbath according to the scriptures. Please share.

I still don’t get it. If you don’t think my view breaks the commandment, why do you ask for scripture to support it? Appreciate your enlightenment.

Instead of understanding the pattern of truth, you are seeking word-by-word text to support your reasoning of making six days different from one day even though you understood I was saying the one day should be extended/magnified to the other six days with the presented supporting scriptures, while not breaking the commandment. Which you agree Jesus also did that to the not murdering commandment.

The way I understood it, your contradiction is that I cannot do that, but you agree on how I practice it.


But since you keep insisting to have a direct record of the apostle or Jesus stating they break the Sabbath, I presented one. But sad to see that you do not understand the writing of Apostle John, who followed Jesus, who wrote the Gospel book. Apostle John wrote and said it, not me.

“Remember the Sabbath day” means “men for the Sabbath” if you read literally, no? As God blessed the Seventh-day, is a Seventh-day human? If you may claim we should read into the text, then you should do the same for Hebrews 4 and Colossians 2 I use to support my view of every today.


Btw, I believe he was saying he didn’t keep the way you explained it, but the way I do.

Anyway, let’s not be like what was spoken by Prophet Isaiah concerning those who cannot connect the scriptures.

Isaiah 28:10-13
For they hear: “Order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line; a little here, a little there.” Indeed, with mocking lips and foreign tongues, He will speak to this people to whom He has said: “This is the place of rest, let the weary rest; this is the place of repose.” But they would not listen. Then the word of the LORD to them will become: “Order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line; a little here, a little there,” so that they will go stumbling backward and will be injured, ensnared, and captured.​

Actually, I am very keen to how you would share how to keep the Sabbath according to the scriptures. Please share. Thanks

God Bless and Happy Seventh-day Sabbath

John was giving an account to what happened, not accusing Jesus of sinning and breaking the Sabbath commandment. Still didn’t answer my question, do you not believe Jesus is equal to God since He was also accused of that too. Jesus said He kept all of His Fathers commandments, John 15:10 and never sinned 1 Peter 2:21-22. I believe Jesus and not the people who crucified Him for “breaking” the Sabbath.

My post to Leaf has nothing to do with what you posted- we go back a bit.

I am going to bow out of this conversation, but if something interesting pops up, I may jump back in again.

 

[Cornelius8L]

No I don’t get where you’re coming from to be honest,

It’s okay if you can’t see the logic

Still didn’t answer my question, do you not believe Jesus is equal to God since He was also accused of that too.

I didn’t expect you to request me to answer for a clear statement Apostle made.

“(#1) Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, (#2) making Himself equal with God (John 5:18)”

If you agree on #1, then #2 is automatically agreed. You, however, agree #2 but disagree #1.

Now, I am very keen to understand how you keep the Sabbath according to the scripture today. And how it is different from my practice.

Since you have agreed to no scripture saying singing hymns, reading the bible, and praying is a Sabbath rest requirement, I hope your sharing won't add this idea that is not an Exodus 20 God finger-written commandment

While church is the way Jesus kept the Sabbath as His custom Luke 4:16 when not able to do so, we can keep the Sabbath anywhere as it is a day about God doing His ways and examples of this is spending time in prayer, reading the Word of God, studying the Word of God, preaching the Word of God. I am sure Jesus had the scriptures memorized, which is what He quoted during the wilderness when Satan tried to tempt Him, so I have no doubt Jesus had no problem keeping the Sabbath under any circumstances, just like we can today.

Moreover using your logic, no scripture would support your added idea here abides with the Exodus 20 commandment.

Love to hear from you when you are ready God Bless!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It’s okay if you can’t see the logic


I didn’t expect you to request me to answer for a clear statement Apostle made.

“(#1) Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, (#2) making Himself equal with God (John 5:18)”

If you agree on #1, then #2 is automatically agreed. You, however, agree #2 but disagree #1.

No I agree with Jesus, who did not break the Sabbath or any commandment and was sinless John 15:10, 1 Peter 2:21-22 and is God John 10:30. I don’t think we read the Bible the same way, and what Jesus was being accused of is not what He did according to Jesus. My faith is in Jesus. If you believe Jesus sinned and broke the Sabbath, there is really no hope for anyone and the devil succeeded in his plan to ruin salvation from those who who believe and have faith in Jesus, repent from sin (breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4- Romans 7:7) and turn from sin, be baptized and walk with His Spirit in obedience to Him Acts 2:38. Acts 5:32

You seem more interested in disproving the Sabbath than trying to keep it, so I don’t see the point to share what scripture says as examples on how to keep holy God’s Sabbath day. It’s in your bible if interested in learning though.

 

[Leaf473]

Thanks for the suggestion, I think our past shows we can never get past the greater laws, so probably won’t make a lot of sense. God bless you though in seeking His Word.

If you don't want to discuss the law with me, that's fine.

I think you are assuming that the way to talk about the law is to start with the greater laws first. I think if we talk about the lesser known laws, we will very likely come to an agreement about the greater laws.

Peace be with you, my sister!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If you don't want to discuss the law with me, that's fine.

I think you are assuming that the way to talk about the law is to start with the greater laws first. I think if we talk about the lesser known laws, we will very likely come to an agreement about the greater laws.

Peace be with you, my sister!

I disagree, if we can’t agree on the easy ones, we will never agree on the lesser ones.

Appreciate the offer though and wish you well in seeking His Word.

 

[Leaf473]

Btw, I believe he was saying he didn’t keep the way you explained it, but the way I do.

Hi Cornelius8L,

So, some background:
@SabbathBlessings and I go back several years here on CF.

In an attempt to better communicate, I have tried several different methods of expressing my position. So I can understand how that could appear to be changing my position.

As I alluded to above, the partial law keeping theologies
(SabbathBlessings, is that an accurate way to describe what you present?)
don't hold up when dealing with the lesser known laws.

SabbathBlessings, do you allege a difference between laws and commandments above? I offer to talk about it, but to me it makes sense to see if the approach will work with the entire law.

If a theology about the law can't deal with the entire law, it doesn't make sense to endorse it imo.

I've enjoyed reading your posts, Cornelius8L, and hope you will continue posting more insights.

And may the peace of the Lord be with you all!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi Cornelius8L,

So, some background:
@SabbathBlessings and I go back several years here on CF.

In an attempt to better communicate, I have tried several different methods of expressing my position. So I can understand how that could appear to be changing my position.

As I alluded to above, the partial law keeping theologies
(SabbathBlessings, is that an accurate way to describe what you present?)
don't hold up when dealing with the lesser known laws.

SabbathBlessings, do you allege a difference between laws and commandments above? I offer to talk about it, but to me it makes sense to see if the approach will work with the entire law.

If a theology about the law can't deal with the entire law, it doesn't make sense to endorse it imo.

I've enjoyed reading your posts, Cornelius8L, and hope you will continue posting more insights.

And may the peace of the Lord be with you all!

What you're posting is not accurate, no one is saying not to deal with the whole law- we should follow scripture carefully to understand it and what changed at the cross and what did not, which is spelled out pretty clearly. If we can't deal with the greater laws, which is what we have tried to discuss at length for 2+ and have not come to any understanding- it would serve no point to continue onto other laws, which incidentally has been discussed over the years. As a general rule it's also hard to discuss any scripture with someone who places their words/opinions/ideas as equal to the scripture, you can never reason with them, so best not to try.

At any rate, there are hundreds of posts about laws, this post is about the origin of the Sabbath so we should probably get back to the OP topic.

 

[Leaf473]

I disagree, if we can’t agree on the easy ones, we will never agree on the lesser ones.

Appreciate the offer though and wish you well in seeking His Word.

It looks to me that talking about, say, the blended fabrics instructions would be just as easy if not easier than talking about the coveting or adultery or Sabbath instructions.

Indeed, the lesser known laws are often more straightforward.

Peace be with you!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It looks to me that talking about, say, the blended fabrics instructions would be just as easy if not easier than talking about the coveting or adultery or Sabbath instructions.

Indeed, the lesser known laws are often more straightforward.

Peace be with you!

Not to me. God not only spoke the Words of the Ten Commandments Exodus 20, He wrote them with His own finger Exodus 31:18 just to make them as clear as it could possibly be. The Ten Commandments to me are as clear as how He wrote them,. If mixing fabrics is easier for you to understand than thou shalt not commit adultery or any of the other commandments- than as usual, we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Leaf473]

What you're posting is not accurate, no one is saying not to deal with the whole law- we should follow scripture carefully to understand it and what changed at the cross and what did not, which is spelled out pretty clearly. If we can't deal with the greater laws, which is what we have tried to discuss at length for 2+ and have not come to any understanding- it would serve no point to continue onto other laws, which incidentally has been discussed over the years. As a general rule it's also hard to discuss any scripture with someone who places their words/opinions/ideas as equal to the scripture, you can never reason with them, so best not to try.

At any rate, there are hundreds of posts about laws, this post is about the origin of the Sabbath so we should probably get back to the OP topic.

It serves a very important point to talk about the lesser-known laws if it shows that one's approach to the allegedly greater laws is incorrect.

I certainly don't think my words, opinions, or ideas are equal to scripture. But I am aware that in some cases there is more than one way to interpret a passage. And that's why it's good to see if one's interpretation holds up with the rest of scriptures... and that leads us to the lesser known laws.
___________________________
And yes, we can talk about the OP. Do you believe God gave Adam and Eve the same instructions about the Sabbath that he gave to the Israelites in Exodus 20?

 

[Leaf473]

Not to me. God not only spoke the Words of the Ten Commandments Exodus 20, He wrote them with His own finger Exodus 31:18 just to make them as clear as it could possibly be. The Ten Commandments to me are as clear as how He wrote them,. If mixing fabrics is easier for you to understand than thou shalt not commit adultery or any of the other commandments- than as usual, we will have to agree to disagree.

I responded over here, since we agree that it's good to keep this thread on topic.
Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

 

[Cornelius8L]

No I agree with Jesus, who did not break the Sabbath or any commandment and was sinless John 15:10, 1 Peter 2:21-22 and is God John 10:30.

Incorrect, you only agree on what you want. I will list below why I say so.

Before that, did Jesus said must observe the Sabbath the way you propose or intend to propose? You insert your idea on how to keep it.

You seem more interested in disproving the Sabbath than trying to keep it, so I don’t see the point to share what scripture says as examples on how to keep holy God’s Sabbath day. It’s in your bible if interested in learning though.

I will disprove your idea of keeping the Sabbath that cannot be proven by the scripture using your method of text-to-text screening, which you did many times, just to demonstrate the flaw of your bible reading method.

For example, Jesus never mentioned “Sabbath” in the rich young ruler incident when He spoke about the commandments (Luke 18, Matthew 19, Mark 10). Should I imitate you to say, “there is no Sabbath mentioned here” or “Sabbath” is not crystal-clearly stated?

Now, the list.

• You say Sabbath in Exodus 20 cannot be changed. But you add God is reasonable to allow one to miss a Church although you say cannot add own ideas into the commandment. You are self-conflicting.
• You say you don’t think my view breaks the commandment, yet you keep asking for scripture to break it in almost every post. Your requests do not align with your claims.
• You insisted on the text-by-text “Sabbath is every today” when Hebrews 4 explains it with obvious quotations. In an analogy, you need the answer “One(1)” and I say “Three(3) minus two(2) is the same." But you insist that “Three minus two” does not mean it is “One.” Then, you claim it as a zero fact that “three minus two equals one” and keep insisting to see the “one” multiple times.
• Again, you cannot comprehend the meaning of “every day is alike” in Romans 14. Your “everyday” in a month does not have the seventh day each week. It skipped.
• You refuse to accept the statement of the Apostle. Evident from the case of John 5:18.
• Your definition of commandments seems only limited to the Ten, although Jesus did mention He gave a new commandment. You don’t take commandments as any command of God, including Jesus’s commands of taking our cross, (whoever does not carry his cross and follow Me cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:27) – So, this is a Teaching? An Advice? Or a Command?

Since you expect me to answer all your questions (which I did), you should expect me to expect likewise.

So then, where is the scripture that removes the death penalty for not keeping the weekly Sabbath other than Colossians 2:16? If the death penalty is hand-written as you may claim later nailed on the cross, it will strengthen my point of Colossians 2:16 referring to the weekly Sabbath (as well).

• You still have not pointed out where the scripture supports removing the death penalty for not keeping the weekly Sabbath.

What does Joshua’s rest mean? It is not the seventh-day rest.

The scripture combines the weekly seventh-day creation rest and Joshua’s rest by using “designated” a(one) certain day, “Today.” So how can we enter Joshua’s rest by “today” if “today” is just a preparation day, not the entering day?

• Kindly explain how Paul connects “enter Joshua’s rest” and “God's creation's seventh-day rest” by designating “today”

God Bless