Creation Sabbath Origin

[Cornelius8L]

Hi there, can anyone explain to me how Jesus observe the Sabbath Day differently during his 40 days fasting in the wilderness? He didn’t go to the temple or synagogue on Sabbath Days during His fast, right? Thanks.

 

[Leaf473]

Hi there, can anyone explain to me how Jesus observe the Sabbath Day differently during his 40 days fasting in the wilderness? He didn’t go to the temple or synagogue on Sabbath Days during His fast, right? Thanks.

Hi Cornelius8L, nice to meet you!

That's a good point about Jesus in the wilderness, I never thought of that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi there, can anyone explain to me how Jesus observe the Sabbath Day differently during his 40 days fasting in the wilderness? He didn’t go to the temple or synagogue on Sabbath Days during His fast, right? Thanks.

How did the Israelites keep the Sabbath in the wilderness? The Sabbath is about communion with God. While church is the way Jesus kept the Sabbath as His custom Luke 4:16 when not able to do so, we can keep the Sabbath anywhere as it is a day about God doing His ways and examples of this is spending time in prayer, reading the Word of God, studying the Word of God, preaching the Word of God. I am sure Jesus had the scriptures memorized, which is what He quoted during the wilderness when Satan tried to tempt Him, so I have no doubt Jesus had no problem keeping the Sabbath under any circumstances, just like we can today. We are told Jesus kept all of His Fathers commandments John 15:10, 1 John 2:6 as our example, which includes the Sabbath. It’s not a sin to miss church if one is sick or not able to make it for reasons that God knows, but we can still keep the Sabbath holy by doing the ways of the Lord Isaiah 58:13 in communion with Him, which is what the Sabbath is about on His holy and blessed day. Missing church shouldn’t be a habit as God wants us to fellowship and be one body, but God understands our circumstances on the occasions we are not able to come together.

 

[Leaf473]

If the part in Leviticus 23 about having a holy assembly on the Sabbath is recommended but essentially optional, then cool!

That would mean we don't have to keep the letters of Leviticus 23 imo.

Relating it to the thread topic, I think I could agree with the idea that Adam and Eve had the basic idea of the Sabbath, just not the same letters as Exodus 20.

 

[BobRyan]

Okay, So Adam and Eve knew about evil, knowing that it was the wrong thing to do. And Cain would have known this as well, yes?

yes and the fact that they did sin - does not mean they did not know about evil or that they could not understand the concept of "obedience" as compared to rebellion.

 

[BobRyan]

Sure, I'm interested in the details in your post. How do those details relate to the Sabbath commandment being known by Adam and Eve?

Gen 2:1-3 shows that Sabbath "sanctified" -- 'made a holy day' in the seven day week of Creation and Ex 20:11 reminds the reader of that same historic fact.

That would be the first full day of life for Adam and Eve

 

[BobRyan]

Oh, I think they did experience good, in that they experienced God's goodness.

But did they have knowledge of Good and evil at first?

As already stated before - they knew about evil and they experienced Good.

But they did not "know evil" as participants in it - the way they new good as participants in it.

I don't think so.

You have free will of course and are free to differ.

Is it possible that earlier they knew good but not evil? Maybe. But I thought earlier you said that they knew good firsthand and evil in some other way.

Indeed just as I did again - in this post in my statement above.

If they knew both Good and evil earlier, then why does God say that now they had "become like us"?

Maybe He is mocking satan's claim that if they engaged in rebellion they would "be like God" in that they would "know by experiencing" good and evil.

Genesis also says "Adam knew his wife" it does not mean "knew about her".

 

[Leaf473]

yes and the fact that they did sin - does not mean they did not know about evil or that they could not understand the concept of "obedience" as compared to rebellion.

Exactly! And God can talk to Cain about Sin because Cain knows that it is rebellion or acting without restraint to go against his experience of Good.

1 John 3:4 Sin is rebellion, sin is lawlessness
1 John 3:4 - Bible Gateway

 

[Leaf473]

Gen 2:1-3 shows that Sabbath "sanctified" -- 'made a holy day' in the seven day week of Creation and Ex 20:11 reminds the reader of that same historic fact.

That would be the first full day of life for Adam and Eve

Yes, God made the Seventh Day a holy day. We agree on that.

 

[Leaf473]

As already stated before - the knew about evil and they experienced Good.

But they did not "know evil" as participants in it - the way they new good as participants in it.



You have free will of course and are free to differ.



Indeed just as I did again - in this post in my statement above.



Maybe He is mocking satan's claim that if they engaged in rebellion they would "be like God" in that they would "know by experiencing" good and evil.

Genesis also says "Adam knew his wife" it does not mean "knew about her".

It seems like some of this you answered earlier?

Yes, we both have free will and thus can see, or choose to see, different things in the scriptures. And that's what makes discussions interesting!

And it looks like we disagree about when Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of Good and evil, but for the purposes of this thread, I don't think it's critical.

As long as we agree that Cain had the knowledge of Good and evil.

 

[BobRyan]

As long as we agree that Cain had the knowledge of Good and evil.

All mankind - including Cain, have first hand knowledge -- by experience of "good and evil".

But not all mankind know the name of Jesus
Not all mankind knows the name of God - and not to take His name in vain
Not all mankind knows not to worship a multitude of gods
Not all mankind knows not to make images of God.

Adam and Eve, Can and Able, Seth etc would have known all that. They would also know about Gen 2:1-3

 

[Leaf473]

All mankind - including Cain, have first hand knowledge -- by experience of "good and evil".

But not all mankind know the name of Jesus
Not all mankind knows the name of God - and not to take His name in vain
Not all mankind knows not to worship a multitude of gods
Not all mankind knows not to make images of God.

Adam and Eve, Can and Able, Seth etc would have known all that. They would also know about Gen 2:1-3

Following that train of thought, that humans have the knowledge of Good and evil but not necessarily details about specific commandments, then I don't see that we can necessarily conclude that Adam, Eve, or Cain had the same details about the Sabbath that are contained in Exodus 20.

 

[BobRyan]

Following that train of thought, that humans have the knowledge of Good and evil but not necessarily details about specific commandments

Indeed fallen sinful man "separated from God" as Eph 2 points out has a very dull understanding yet the Spirit still "Convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" at some level - so the point remains.

"To him that knows to do right and does it not... to him it is sin"

which is obviously nothing like the sinless condition of Adam and Eve who talked directly with God and angels.

Obviously

, then I don't see that we can necessarily conclude that Adam, Eve, or Cain had the same details about the Sabbath that are contained in Exodus 20.

Clearly you are not following the points in the discussion and Gen 2:1-3 provides the details before the fall of man that you claim did not exist.

Your speculation relies on ignoring a lot of details in the topic and the ability to repeatedly do that.

As I recall - you already admitted you do not actually read the details in the posts. As I have already pointed out - that practice does not serve your argument very well.

 

[Cornelius8L]

The Sabbath law in Mosaic law includes burnt offering (Numbers 28:9-10). I doubt Adam and Eve could do that in the Garden of Eden.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Sabbath law in Mosaic law includes burnt offering (Numbers 28:9-10). I doubt Adam and Eve could do that in the Garden of Eden.

Those are the annual sabbath(s) that came after sin. What is being discussed here and in Genesis 2:1-3 is the weekly Sabbath, that was before sin and part of the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 20

 

[Cornelius8L]

Those are the annual sabbath(s) that came after sin. What is being discussed here and in Genesis 2:1-3 is the weekly Sabbath, that was before sin and part of the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 20

Numbers 28:9-10 is talking about the weekly offering, no? That is why Jesus said the priests work on Sabbath but were innocent (Matthew 12:5).

 

[Leaf473]

Indeed fallen sinful man "separated from God" as Eph 2 points out has a very dull understanding yet the Spirit still "Convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" at some level - so the point remains.

"To him that knows to do right and does it not... to him it is sin"

which is obviously nothing like the sinless condition of Adam and Eve who talked directly with God and angels.

Obviously


Clearly you are not following the points in the discussion and Gen 2:1-3 provides the details before the fall of man that you claim did not exist.

Your speculation relies on ignoring a lot of details in the topic and the ability to repeatedly do that.

As I recall - you already admitted you do not actually read the details in the posts. As I have already pointed out - that practice does not serve your argument very well.

Well, I don't read every detail of every post of every thread, that's true.

Following your train of thought, I believe Cain would have qualified as one of those fallen humans. So even if he didn't have a particular set of commandments, he could still be convicted of sin.

If I remember right, the OP had said that since God talks to Cain about Sin regarding his brother, Cain must have had the specific murder commandment given in Exodus 20.

But it looks like we agree that it isn't a necessary conclusion.

So assuming that Cain knew the details of Genesis 2, is it possible he had the same Sabbath commandment as found in Exodus 20? It's possible, but again, it's not a necessary conclusion imo.

 

[Leaf473]

Numbers 28:9-10 is talking about the weekly offering, no? That is why Jesus said the priests work on Sabbath but were innocent (Matthew 12:5).

That's interesting! And to me it brings up the issue of: even if Adam and Eve and the very early humans had a Sabbath commandment in some form, did they have this commandment about the offerings?

If not, then there are some Sabbath commandments that were added later.

 

[BobRyan]

The Sabbath law in Mosaic law includes burnt offering (Numbers 28:9-10). I doubt Adam and Eve could do that in the Garden of Eden.

Nothing in the Sabbath commandment Ex 20:8-11 calls for burnt offerings
Nothing in the Sabbath command of Gen 2:1-3 that sanctifies it on day 7 - before sin has even entered the world - calls for burnt offerings.

In Is 66:23 we are told that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to bow down"

In Acts 13, and Acts 17 and Acts 18 we see gentiles and Jews keeping Sabbath - without any burnt offerings.

Numbers 28:9-10 is talking about the weekly offering, no? That is why Jesus said the priests work on Sabbath but were innocent (Matthew 12:5).

Something added later that was declared to be temporary in Heb 10:4-11 (regarding sacrifices) does not alter the command given in Eden and kept for all eternity after the cross.

That's interesting! And to me it brings up the issue of: even if Adam and Eve and the very early humans had a Sabbath commandment in some form, did they have this commandment about the offerings?
.

Animal sacrifice does not come in until after the fall of man - (but long before any Jews existed) and it ends in Heb 10 as we have discussed a few dozen times already.

 

[Leaf473]

Nothing in the Sabbath commandment Ex 20:8-11 calls for burnt offerings
Nothing in the Sabbath command of Gen 2:1-3 that sanctifies it on day 7 - before sin has even entered the world - calls for burnt offerings.

In Is 66:23 we are told that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to bow down"

In Acts 13, and Acts 17 and Acts 18 we see gentiles and Jews keeping Sabbath - without any burnt offerings.



Something added later that was declared to be temporary in Heb 10:4-11 (regarding sacrifices) does not alter the command given in Eden and kept for all eternity after the cross.



Animal sacrifice does not come in until after the fall of man - (but long before any Jews existed) and it ends in Heb 10 as we have discussed a few dozen times already.

I hear what you're saying, and to me it supports the possibility that those very early humans didn't have all of the Sabbath laws that are found in the law of Moses.