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Creation evidence?

seebs

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Okay, let's try again:

Does anyone have non-Biblical, scientific, evidence which explicitly supports the young earth creation model? Not "evidence that another model is flawed", but evidence specifically supporting a young earth with special creation of life as we know it.

Anyone?

(People who don't have such evidence, please leave this thread alone; it should either list specific evidence *for* creation, or die a lonely death.)
 
If you're really interested in hearing the evidence for creation, the following site as a number of videos online that should help you. They can tell you far more than I can in a single message:

http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=28

After going to the website, click on the link to the left labelled "Seminar Online."

Shimon
 
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Originally posted by Shimon
If you're really interested in hearing the evidence for creation, the following site as a number of videos online that should help you. They can tell you far more than I can in a single message:

http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=28

After going to the website, click on the link to the left labelled "Seminar Online."

Shimon

Prepare to be spammed with ad-hominem attacks on your sources. They won't attack you yet -- you're too new here. Give it a couple hours.
 
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seebs

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Originally posted by npetreley


Prepare to be spammed with ad-hominem attacks on your sources. They won't attack you yet -- you're too new here. Give it a couple hours.

It's not "ad-hominem" to point out that the man is a known liar. If I know that he will continue making false claims after having the evidence for their falsehood shown to him at length, I think it's reasonable to assert that I can't consider him a reliable source of information.

I am, after all, not merely concerned with his *argument*, but with the reliability of the *evidence*.

Kent Hovind is a known liar. Given this, I can't accept him as a source, although some of *his* sources might well be reliable.

Nick, surely you, having studied this so much, can offer a nice simple piece of evidence, right? I can show you evidence for evolution and common descent in my house; surely, you can show better evidence for creation?
 
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npetreley:

Prepare to be spammed with ad-hominem attacks on your sources. They won't attack you yet -- you're too new here. Give it a couple hours.

Yes, I'm very familiar with the evolutionists' tactic of ignoring any evidence that doesn't support evolution.  There is a surprising amount of evidence that never gets reported.  And, even after "evidence" for evolution is proven to be false, it continues to be taught in the textbooks.

 

D. Scarlatti

Somehow I think seebs is familiar with the militant tax evader that obtained his "Ph.D." from a suburban Colorado backsplit.

Yes, attack the messenger instead of the message.  I'm familiar with that tactic too.

Considering that our tax dollars are being used to support the religion of evolution, I can't say I blame him.

Shimon
 
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Yes, I'm very familiar with the evolutionists' tactic of ignoring any evidence that doesn't support evolution. There is a surprising amount of evidence that never gets reported.

Could you just go ahead and post some of that evidence in this thread? That's what the thread was posted for, you know. Links to Kent Hovind don't technically qualify as "evidence". I've been to his web-site, & I have his seminars on CD-Rom. I have yet to find any evidence that supports creationism in either place, except that which was made up, borrowed uncritically from folk-lore, exagerrated, quote-mined or some such. No actual data to support any given creation model... It would be better, if you think he has evidence to quote his evidence and cite him as the source for it. Then we can check his facts and yours!
 
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Morat

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  It boggles the mind that you would use a known liar (a known liar about the very subject you are trying to use his "facts" for) as evidence.

   Why not, if only for the sake of moving the conversation along (although intellectual integrity should be reason enough), use places like AIG?

   I ignore Hovind for the simple reason that he tells untruths whenever he speaks on this subject, and worse yet, he has been publically corrected, admitted he was mistaken, and then used those untruths again.

   But let's look at his quotes, shall we?

  The first, a physicist, is easily disposed of. After all, he's speaking outside of his field. Do you trust your auto mechanic to remove your appendix?

  He then quotes Denton twice, both from 1985. Do you know why he uses such old quotes, as opposed to more recent quotes from Denton? Denton writes and speaks extensively on the subject. Perhaps you should peruse his more recent works.

  A man named Jastrow, who is apparantly not a biologist, or even a scientist (either that, or the web site broke it's own conventions and failed to list his field).

   The same physicst again.

   Hoyle, who is a physicst, and Wickramasinghe. There's a funny story about Chandra there. He was placed on the stand, you see, in Edwards, I think. He was asked by the lawyer defending the "equal-time" measure: "What do you think of evolution?" "It's nonsense" he replied. The lawyer, unwisely, asked him "And what do you think of Creationism?". "It's worse nonsense".

  Futyama's quote is hilarious, especially the tag: "Not Known to be a Creationist". Absolutely. He only wrote the premier text on evolution. Anyone have "Science on Trial"? I'd love to see the full text of that quote, which in any case does not support Creationism.

  Another old Denton quote.

  Another with no field given.

  A known misquote (those ellipses are important) of Patterson.

  Another old Denton quote.

  An anonymous quote, attributed to an unnamed expert.

  No field given.

  Another duplicate by a no field.

  Notice the pattern? Old quotes by Denton, who has repudiated them. Quotes by people outside their field. Misleading quotes.

 That's not evidence. It's not even representative of scientific thought on the matter. It is representative of desperation.

  

 
 
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Morat:

It boggles the mind that you would use a known liar (a known liar about the very subject you are trying to use his "facts" for) as evidence.

That's a pretty hypocritical statement, don't you think? Evolution is founded upon literally dozens and dozens of known liars. Remember "Nebraska Man?" A pig tooth was claimed to have been a human tooth. Remember "Peking Man?" Some monkey bones were found in the same area with human tools, and no mention was made of the human bones found in the same area. The list goes on and on.

Shimon
 
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Originally posted by seebs


It's not "ad-hominem" to point out that the man is a known liar.

Ooh, that's another good one!

Originally posted by seebs


Kent Hovind is a known liar.

That makes three. C'mon guys, you can do better than this. It's been several minutes, and only three substance-free ad-hominem attacks?
 
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Originally posted by Raging Atheist
why do creationism sites always have their lectures in the form of streaming audio or video?  do they assume that their visitors can't read?

Nice touch. Keep them ad-hominems rollin. You don't want anyone to figure out that you haven't actually addressed any real information on the site.
 
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If you're already familiar with Kent Hovind's site, then I'm sure you're probably already aware of this list (shortened because it is too lenghty to post in one message:

"I think, however, that we must go further than this and admit that <B>the only acceptable explanation is creation. </B>I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the experimental evidence supports it."—*H. Lipson, "A Physicist Looks at Evolution," Physics Bulletin, 31 (1980), p. 138.

"The hold of the <B>evolutionary paradigm </B>[theoretical system] is so powerful that an idea which is more like <B>a principle of medieval astrology </B>than a serious twentieth century scientific theory has become a reality for evolutionary biologists."—*Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985), p. 306 [Australian molecular biologist].

"It was because Darwinian theory broke man's link with God and set him adrift in a cosmos without purpose or end that its impact was so fundamental. No other intellectual revolution in modern times . . so profoundly affected the way men viewed themselves and their place in the universe."—*Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985), p. 67 [Australian molecular biologist].

"Scientists have no proof that life was not the result of an act of creation."—*Robert Jastrow, The Enchanted Loom: Mind in the Universe (1981), p. 19.

"In fact, <B>evolution became </B>in a sense <B>a scientific religion; </B>almost all scientists have accepted it and many are prepared to `bend' their observations to fit in with it."—*H. Lipson, "A Physicist Looks at Evolution," Physics Bulletin, 31 (1980), p. 138.

"When <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Darwin</st1:place></st1:City> presented a paper [with Alfred Wallace] to the Linnean Society in 1858, a Professor Haugton of <st1:City><st1:place>Dublin</st1:place></st1:City> remarked, `All that was new was false, and what was true was old.' This, we think, will be the final verdict on the matter, the epitaph on Darwinism."—*Fred Hoyle and N. Chandra Wickramasinghe, Evolution from Space (1981), p. 159.

"Creation and evolution, between them, exhaust the possible explanations for the origin of living things. Organisms either appeared on the earth fully developed or they did not. If they did not, they must have developed from pre-existing species by some process of modification. If they did appear in a fully developed state, they must have been created by some omnipotent intelligence."—*D.J. Futuyma, Science on Trial (1983), p. 197.

"The over-riding supremacy of the myth has created a widespread illusion that the theory of evolution was all but proved one hundred years ago and that all subsequent biological research—paleontological, zoological, and in the newer branches of genetics and molecular biology—has provided ever-increasing evidence for Darwinian ideas."—*Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985), p. 327.

"Today our duty is to destroy the myth of evolution, considered as a simple, understood and explained phenomenon which keeps rapidly unfolding before us. Biologists must be encouraged to think about the weaknesses and extrapolations that the theoreticians put forward or lay down as established truths. The deceit is sometimes unconscious, but not always, since some people, owing to their sectarianism, purposely overlook reality and refuse to acknowledge the inadequacies and falsity of their beliefs."—*Pierre-Paul de Grasse, Evolution of Living Organisms (1977), p. 8.

"I feel that the effect of hypotheses of common ancestry in systematics has not been merely boring, not just a lack of knowledge; I think it has been <B>positively anti-knowledge </B>. . Well, what about evolution? It certainly has the function of knowledge, but does it convey any? Well, we are back to the question I have been putting to people, `Is there one thing you can tell me about?' The absence of answers seems to suggest that it is true, <B>evolution does not convey any knowledge."</B>—*Colin Patterson, Director AMNH, Address at the <st1:place><st1:placeName>American</st1:placeName> <st1:placeType>Museum</st1:placeType></st1:place> of Natural History (November 5, 1981).

"Throughout the past century there has always existed a significant minority of first-rate biologists who have never been able to bring themselves to accept the validity of Darwinian claims. In fact, the number of biologists who have expressed some degree of disillusionment is practically endless."—*Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1986), p. 327.

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">"I personally hold the evolutionary position, but yet lament the fact that the majority of our Ph.D. graduates are frightfully ignorant of many of the <B>serious problems of the evolution theory. </B>These problems will not be solved unless we bring them to the attention of students. Most students assume evolution is proved, the missing link is found, and all we have left is a few rough edges to smooth out. Actually, quite the contrary is true; and many recent discoveries . . have forced us to re-evaluate our basic assumptions."—*Director of a large graduate program in biology, quoted in Creation: The Cutting Edge (1982), p. 26.
</SPAN>

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPAN>&nbsp;

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Shimon</SPAN>
 
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Raging Atheist

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Originally posted by npetreley


Nice touch. Keep them ad-hominems rollin. You don't want anyone to figure out that you haven't actually addressed any real information on the site.

Correction: I've addressed that fact that nearly all the big creation sites I've visited have had all their lectures in streaming audio or video of some sort... I theorize that its because they realize their arguments are weak and they hope to captivate their limited audience with a moving image and sound... its much harder to respond to a video-sermon on a point-by-point basis than it is to reply to an essay... hmm... maybe they can't type... ???

Does it ever bother you that even fellow Christians dont take you seriously, npetrely?
 
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