Creation Date

[inquiring mind]

Genesis states that the earth was covered with primordial water prior to the formation of the Sun. This is indirectly referencing Mesopotamian creation myths of fresh and salt water, which was vitally important to Near Eastern culture. However, if you state this is "miraculous by God's hand," you forfeit being taken seriously in the scientific and academic communities. You can't expect historians, archaeologists, physicists, textual criticists and the like, to take such views seriously if most of the gaps are filled with "belief," lacking in evidence.

Yet, they do not hesitate to fill-in gaps without evidence themselves, with speculation of all sorts.

 

[AV1611VET]

Genesis states that the earth was covered with primordial water prior to the formation of the Sun.

That is correct.

It was a mass of seawater in the hollow of God's hand, prior to the creation of gravity that formed it into a ball.

This is indirectly referencing Mesopotamian creation myths of fresh and salt water, which was vitally important to Near Eastern culture.

Oh, bologna.

Which came first? the earth? or Mesopotamian creation myths?

However, if you state this is "miraculous by God's hand," you forfeit being taken seriously in the scientific and academic communities.

Wow! What a loss! Looks like I'm off the dean's list! Walk of shame.

The scientific and academic community didn't take Allan McDonald seriously, did they?

You can't expect historians, archaeologists, physicists, textual criticists and the like, to take such views seriously if most of the gaps are filled with "belief," lacking in evidence.

That's their prerogative.

Just don't expect us to take them seriously, when they fill in their gaps (missing links) with blue lines.

 

[Jonaitis]

Yet, they do not hesitate to fill-in gaps without evidence themselves, with speculation of all sorts.

Do you really believe the earth existed prior to the Sun and our home galaxy, and more importantly, the entire universe?

We just discovered less than a hundred years ago that we aren't the only galaxy in the universe. We discovered that there are trillions within the observable universe, and we have not yet found a center or an end.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yet, they do not hesitate to fill-in gaps without evidence themselves, with speculation of all sorts.

You ninja'd me!

 

[Jonaitis]

That is correct.

It was a mass of seawater in the hollow of God's hand, prior to the creation of gravity that formed it into a ball.Oh, bologna.

Which came first? the earth? or Mesopotamian creation myths?Wow! What a loss! Looks like I'm off the dean's list! Walk of shame.

The scientific and academic community didn't take Allan McDonald seriously, did they?That's their prerogative.

Just don't expect us to take them seriously, when they fill in their gaps (missing links) with blue lines.

How do you explain the Y-chromosomal Adam and Mitochondrial Eve? Or the Neanderthals?

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you really believe the earth existed prior to the Sun and our home galaxy, and more importantly, the entire universe?

Here's a nice little test I once made up.

It is based, of course, on I teaching the class before administering the test.

See how you do.

Creationism Test:

1. Explain the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia; and give two examples of each.
2. Explain the difference between "God" and "LORD God".
3. Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a secular map.
4. What literary device reconciles Genesis 1 and Genesis 2?
5. Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
6. What day was Adam created on?
7. Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
8. Describe terra aqua and what kind of water it consisted of and why.
9. Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
10. Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.
11. Explain the difference between "miracles" and "magic."
12. When discussing Creationism, why should one never let himself stray from Genesis 1 or 2?
13. Why is "heaven" singular in Genesis 1, but plural in Genesis 2?

 

[Jonaitis]

You ninja'd me!

You can high-five each other all you want, doesn't make any of your guys' statements true. It makes you appear rather silly, to be frank.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Absolutely.

That's my favorite example.

Written by Noah's great grandson Nimrod.

But Shem was still around to set the record straight, no matter who wrote their version.

Sumeria's flood story? Shem corrected it.

Egypt's flood story? Shem corrected it.

China's flood story? Shem corrected it.

Reality doesn't get a look in, does it? It gets thrown aside straight after intellectual honesty.

 

[inquiring mind]

Do you really believe the earth existed prior to the Sun and our home galaxy, and more importantly, the entire universe?

We just discovered less than a hundred years ago that we aren't the only galaxy in the universe. We discovered that there are trillions within the observable universe, and we have not yet found a center or an end.

I believe Creation was a miracle, and as such that is true, undoubtedly.

 

[Freth]

The main problem I have with YEC in addition to the lack of understanding what faith is suppose to be (see post #7) is that it seems to presume God is limited to do things the way we ourselves would do things, that is, in a simple way that is like "on Monday I hauled garden soil and let it dry out, and then the next day on Tuesday I planted the garden" -- as if God would be limited in time/energy/duration as if only a mortal human.

The answer as to why God limited Himself within the 24 hour day and the 7 day week is because He was doing it for our benefit and not His own. It was to set an example of what would be the 7 day week for the entirety of earth's history. This is further confirmed in Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11 (et al); that God deliberately created our known reality in 6 days for a specific purpose—for mankind—to know that there is purpose in God's design, even in creation itself, for our benefit, according to His will.

 

[AV1611VET]

How do you explain the Y-chromosomal Adam and Mitochondrial Eve?

They are figments of some scientists' imaginations.

(And don't think they didn't just pick those names arbitrarily. Their "Adam and Eve" supposedly lived thousands of years apart. But I think they're trying to get them closer together.)

((And they also blame the weather on a transgender Jesus, known as El Niño and La Niña.))

Or the Neanderthals?

The Neanderthals were human beings who were afflicted by a bone-altering "wonderful" plague.

Deuteronomy 28:59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

Read the 38th Psalm, where David was afflicted by it, and how it affected him.

Note how he describes it:

Psalm 38:1 O LORD, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.
2 For thine arrows stick fast in me, and thy hand presseth me sore.
3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.
4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.
5 My wounds stink and are corrupt because of my foolishness.
6 I am troubled; I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.
7 For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh.
8 I am feeble and sore broken: I have roared by reason of the disquietness of my heart.

 

[Jonaitis]

3. Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a secular map.

‘Eden’ in Hebrew means ‘delight, pleasure,’ referring to a place where paradise exist, but a similar word ‘Edin’ in Sumerian means ‘steppe, plain,’ which was an ancient placename for a region where a watercourse (artificially constructed water channel) ran through. Is this related to the "river that flowed out of Eden to water the garden" (Genesis 2:10)? Is this is coincidence?

It reminds me of the Tower of Babel. The name 'Babel' in Hebrew means confusion, but in Akkadian etymology it means 'City of God.' Obviously, the writer of Genesis was introducing new meaning to old words. Claim as you wish that it was Mesopotamian culture that stole from the Bible, but you won't find that in the archeological record.

 

[Jonaitis]

They are figments of some scientists' imaginations.

No, it is not. I have done a DNA test, and they were able to accurately trace my paternal lineage to Northeastern Europe and Siberia (I am 1/4 Lithuanian) through my Y-haplogroup. They can determine and trace everyone's haplogroup back to East Africa. You think it is a hoax, but you're the only one lying to yourself.

 

[AV1611VET]

You can high-five each other all you want, doesn't make any of your guys' statements true. It makes you appear rather silly, to be frank.

Speaking of frank, do you mind if I ask what your avatar is?

 

[Jonaitis]

The Neanderthals were human beings who were afflicted by a bone-altering "wonderful" plague.

We share at most 4% of Neanderthal genes (I am 2.4%). They were almost entirely unrelated to present day humans. You can't explain that with Scripture!

 

[AV1611VET]

Reality doesn't get a look in, does it?

Huh?

Is that code for: "It doesn't get a second glance"?

 

[Jonaitis]

Speaking of frank, do you mind if I ask what your avatar is?

Lol, it is a man watching the world as an observer (you can see the nose on the right).

 

[AV1611VET]

‘Eden’ in Hebrew means ...

I couldn't care less what "Eden in Hebrew" means.

I asked "Eden in the Bible".

Do you know the difference?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Huh?

Is that code for: "It doesn't get a second glance"?

It doesn't get a first glance. Reality and intellectual honesty play no part in your fantasy.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, it is not. I have done a DNA test, and they were able to accurately trace my paternal lineage to Northeastern Europe and Siberia (I am 1/4 Lithuanian) through my Y-haplogroup. They can determine and trace everyone's haplogroup back to East Africa. You think it is a hoax, but you're the only one lying to yourself.

"Everyone's"?

And let me guess.

Your go-to bible is the Africa Study Bible?