Creation Date

[inquiring mind]

Do you believe a man named Moses wrote Genesis?

Did you know that Moses' birth was plagiarized from the birth legend of Sargon of Akkad?

The Flood story is obvious another Mesopotamian motif employed by Jewish writers during the exile in Babylon to create a unique story for their own people.

Edit: I can show you more, but are you willing to be open to it? Are you willing to be open to the fact that many Psalms are almost identical to ancient Akkadian hymns?

The Epic of Gilgamesh was obviously an influence on the biblical Flood story. I'll quote a section from the physical copy I personally own:

If the Flood story isn’t true… wonder why so many felt the need to account for it?

 

[AV1611VET]

If the Flood story isn’t true… wonder why so many felt the need to account for it?

To plagiarize it.

Satan knows that people will throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So he simply creates a Heinz-57 variety of stories, and academia does the rest.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

To plagiarize it.

Satan knows that people will throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So he simply creates a Heinz-57 variety of stories, and academia does the rest.

Epic of Gilgamesh. Just sayin'

 

[AV1611VET]

Epic of Gilgamesh.

Absolutely.

That's my favorite example.

Written by Noah's great grandson Nimrod.

But Shem was still around to set the record straight, no matter who wrote their version.

Sumeria's flood story? Shem corrected it.

Egypt's flood story? Shem corrected it.

China's flood story? Shem corrected it.

 

[Jonaitis]

(And who is "Yahweh"?)

Good question. Does anyone know?

 

[Jonaitis]

But in doing so, you won't get the full meaning of history, as God intends us to have it.

Sure, I can claim that Jesus walking on water was a myth; but I'll miss so much about who He is and what He can do.

Mark 4:41 And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?

No one said that Jesus walking on water was a myth. We are discussing the Old Testament.

I disagree, the original audience never believed the entire Old Testament to be literal. It is a relatively new in Jewish history that people take these stories as if they were current events at some point in time.

 

[AV1611VET]

Good question. Does anyone know?

Academia thinks they know.

That's their go-to name for JEHOVAH.

I believe Satan has a plan to change every jot and tittle in the Bible, starting with Eve in the Garden of Eden.

That's why I think academia PREFERS that name to the true one.

God said ...

Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

... and Satan probably laughs every time that passage is ignored.

Psalm 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

 

[Jonaitis]

As the OP conveys, my thought when I see contradictions in the Bible and other written and material records is that ‘our’ applied timelines are off somewhere, and that can be with either or both of them. But, that is really not a problem with the Bible itself because it doesn’t put a date stamp on anything. We attempt the date stamping.

There are no contradictions, because the stories are myths. You forget, or may not realize, that people did not write history in a linear manner back then. If history was being told, it was often embellished and mixed with legends. Think about it, is it really possible that Samson caught 300 foxes and tied torches to their tails, and let them loose to burn crop fields? It is rather silly to believe as a real event. It is a Jewish tale, it should not be taken as literal history.

 

[AV1611VET]

No one said that Jesus walking on water was a myth.

That's true. I was just giving an example for clarity.

We are discussing the Old Testament.

Okay.

I disagree, the original audience never believed the entire Old Testament to be literal.

And some paid for it with their lives.

Remember Nadab and Abihu? Aaron's two brothers who thought they could change God's prescription, and God wouldn't mind?

It is a relatively new in Jewish history that people take these stories as if they were current events at some point in time.

It is a relatively new what?

You left out a word.

 

[Jonaitis]

Academia thinks they know.

That's their go-to name for JEHOVAH.

I believe Satan has a plan to change every jot and tittle in the Bible, starting with Eve in the Garden of Eden.

That's why I think academia PREFERS that name to the true one.

God said ...

Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

... and Satan probably laughs every time that passage is ignored.

Psalm 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

There is no archaeological evidence of the Solomonic Kingdom to the extent that the Scriptures describe, but there are plenty of archaeological evidence that Yahweh was a Canaanite storm and war deity that was worshipped long before Israel was a nation. Is this the work of Satan too?

 

[Jonaitis]

If the Flood story isn’t true… wonder why so many felt the need to account for it?

Belief compels people to do things they would otherwise not do. It is a powerful tool.

 

[inquiring mind]

There are no contradictions, because the stories are myths. You forget, or may not realize, that people did not write history in a linear manner back then. If history was being told, it was often embellished and mixed with legends. Think about it, is it really possible that Samson caught 300 foxes and tied torches to their tails, and let them loose to burn crop fields? It is rather silly to believe as a real event. It is a Jewish tale, it should not be taken as literal history.

I think AV already gave a winning answer that is fitting here:
"To plagiarize it.

Satan knows that people will throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So he simply creates a Heinz-57 variety of stories, and academia does the rest."

 

[AV1611VET]

There are no contradictions, because the stories are myths.

You're mything the points?

You forget, or may not realize, that people did not write history in a linear manner back then.

Ya -- I think they wrote it right-to-left; whereas we write left-to-right.

If history was being told, it was often embellished and mixed with legends.

Thank God we have the Bible to keep the record straight.

Think about it, is it really possible that Samson caught 300 foxes and tied torches to their tails, and let them loose to burn crop fields?

Yup ... with God, all things are possible.

(Yes, yes. I know. Jesus said that in the New Testament, not the Old.)

It is rather silly to believe as a real event.

We call them "miracles".

As my pastor once pointed out, Samson probably stood about six feet tall and weighed 110 pounds wet.

Else the Philistines wouldn't be scratching themselves silly as a shrewdness of scientists in a laboratory.

Judges 16:5a And the lords of the Philistines came up unto her, and said unto her, Entice him, and see wherein his great strength lieth,

It is a Jewish tale, it should not be taken as literal history.

Do you believe that the parables Jesus told were real events He witnessed after His birth here?

(Yes, I know. New Testament. But humor me here. I'm making a point.)

 

[Jonaitis]

Absolutely.

That's my favorite example.

Written by Noah's great grandson Nimrod.

But Shem was still around to set the record straight, no matter who wrote their version.

Sumeria's flood story? Shem corrected it.

Egypt's flood story? Shem corrected it.

China's flood story? Shem corrected it.

If you really want to talk about things spreading, why was monotheism found primarily in the Near East? Was it related to the structure of society in Mesopotamia? Animism was the most common belief that existed in the ancient world. You will find it everywhere, even in the most isolated regions of the world.

 

[Jonaitis]

I think AV already gave a winning answer that is fitting here:
"To plagiarize it.

Satan knows that people will throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So he simply creates a Heinz-57 variety of stories, and academia does the rest."

This is a form of biblical idealistic illiteracy.

 

[inquiring mind]

Belief compels people to do things they would otherwise not do. It is a powerful tool.

It must have been more than belief... its not like they could have had a book on the subject mailed to them, or googled it, its more like they all knew of it someway. Or, again, maybe AV hit it on the head... the intent was to discredit.

 

[AV1611VET]

Belief compels people to do things they would otherwise not do. It is a powerful tool.

That is correct.

And it shouldn't be taken lightly.

Have you ever had anyone call you (or insinuate) a hypocrite because you aren't out burning witches, marching off on a crusade, putting someone through an inquisition, or supporting slavery?

 

[inquiring mind]

This is a form of biblical idealistic illiteracy.

That's harder than I'd slam a door.

 

[AV1611VET]

This is a form of biblical idealistic illiteracy.

No ... it comes straight from academia.

If you don't believe me, test it yourself.

Start a thread about God being the only true God of the universe, and watch people line up to drill you about Allah, Ahura Mazda, Darwin, Thor, or anyone else they give equal airtime to.

 

[Jonaitis]

Genesis states that the earth was covered with primordial water prior to the formation of the Sun. This is indirectly referencing Mesopotamian creation myths of fresh and salt water, which was vitally important to Near Eastern culture. However, if you state this is "miraculous by God's hand," you forfeit being taken seriously in the scientific and academic communities. You can't expect historians, archaeologists, physicists, textual criticists and the like, to take such views seriously if most of the gaps are filled with "belief," lacking in evidence.