Creation and evolution both right??

[metherion]

Apparently, whether Jesus made eyeballs out of the mud is speculation, and I had it fuzzied up in my mind. I apologize. I certainly didn't intend to play fast and loose with the scriptures.

I guess I got the idea from a commentary I read online, and it made sense to me, but it's not actual Biblical fact - only conjecture.

It's not a problem. It certainly could be taken that Jesus, in His infinite power, made new eyeballs from the mud and just made the man's eyes disappear and put new, perfected ones in places when He rubbed the blind eyes. Don't worry about it

I just had the terrible thought of having missed a verse my whole life that said "And the blind man called to Jesus, and Jesus spit on the ground and new eyes appeared for the man, which Jesus took and put into his head." or something similar.

And I wasn't trying to intend or make you think you were playing fast and loose with Scripture. I apologize if what I said made you think you were.

Metherion

 

[horuhe00]

Are you a Creationist?

You neither denied or confirmed. What does my beliefs on the matter have to do with it?

(And I am a creationist. It's my job. I'm a civil engineer. )

 

[FallingWaters]

So your answer to horuhe00 should have read "yes, but he didn't"? Or, perhaps, "Yes, but since evolution doesn't exist, he obviously didn't."

If someone is intent on playing word games, it doesn't matter what you say.
I had an uncle just like that.

 

[horuhe00]

If you want to call Mutating evolving does either word have anything to do with creation of la life form that already exists or simply altering it

Mutating and evolving are alterations, yes. If it has to do with the creation of life, I don't know. I wasn't here 500 million (6 thousand) years ago.

 

[Carey]

Mutating and evolving are alterations, yes. If it has to do with the creation of life, I don't know. I wasn't here 500 million (6 thousand) years ago.

Mutation and evolving are the same thing they are alterations to life already in existence.

So that is not the creation of life.

If humans evolved from other life forms why can no other life form today even come close to being evolved enough to create life??

http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_US_Scientist_Is_On_The_Verge_To_Create_Artificial_Life_09396.html
US Scientist Is On The Verge To Create Artificial Life

 

[FallingWaters]

It's not a problem. It certainly could be taken that Jesus, in His infinite power, made new eyeballs from the mud and just made the man's eyes disappear and put new, perfected ones in places when He rubbed the blind eyes. Don't worry about it

I just had the terrible thought of having missed a verse my whole life

LOL! I know how you feel!

that said "And the blind man called to Jesus, and Jesus spit on the ground and new eyes appeared for the man, which Jesus took and put into his head." or something similar.

And I wasn't trying to intend or make you think you were playing fast and loose with Scripture. I apologize if what I said made you think you were.

Metherion

No, I know you weren't accusing me of anything. Thanks.
My apology was also to all people in general who might read this thread.

 

[FallingWaters]

You neither denied or confirmed. What does my beliefs on the matter have to do with it?

(And I am a creationist. It's my job. I'm a civil engineer. )

It matters because this is a Creationist forum.
Debating by non-Creationists is not allowed.

 

[horuhe00]

.

 

[horuhe00]

It matters because this is a Creationist forum.
Debating by non-Creationists is not allowed.

So, faced with my hydraulic hammer of logic knocking on your wall of belief, your defence is to tell me that I can't post here because only people who believe in the same thing can post here, to re-strengthen your beliefs.

Here's a second chance:

So, your all-powerful god has limitations that my God doesn't have.

I didn't ask you if your God did create life through evolution. I asked if He could create life through evolution.

Since you say thet your God can't create life through evolution, you have a weak, limited God.

 

[FallingWaters]

...It certainly could be taken that Jesus, in His infinite power, made new eyeballs from the mud and just made the man's eyes disappear ...

Just a comment on the phrase I bolded:
I know a girl who was born blind. Her actual "eyeballs" are severely deformed. They're not full-sized eyeballs like we're used to. The sockets are almost flat. I guess I was imagining that the man might have been born with eyes like that, and Jesus used mud to make up the difference.

When Jesus fed the 5,000 He started with a few fish. He could have started with nothing, but for some reason He didn't.

When He made the wine, He started with water.

Not sure what that all means... just thinking out loud.

 

[horuhe00]

Just a comment on the phrase I bolded:
I know a girl who was born blind. Her actual "eyeballs" are severely deformed. They're not full-sized eyeballs like we're used to. The sockets are almost flat. I guess I was imagining that the man might have been born with eyes like that, and Jesus used mud to make up the difference.

When Jesus fed the 5,000 He started with a few fish. He could have started with nothing, but for some reason He didn't.

When He made the wine, He started with water.

Not sure what that all means... just thinking out loud.

True. Jesus didn't need to spit in dirt and cover his eyes with mud. All he had to do was say it, and it would have been done. None of the physical things that Jesus did were necesary. Why he did them? My guess is that he did a physical thing either to test them or to make it easier for them to believe, etc.

 

[FallingWaters]

So, faced with my hydraulic hammer of logic knocking on your wall of belief, your defense is to tell me that I can't post here because only people who believe in the same thing can post here, to re-strengthen your beliefs.

Here's a second chance:

If I was interested in a debate, I would go to the debate thread,
and if you were not a bully, you would stop bullying me.

 

[busterdog]

So, faced with my hydraulic hammer of logic knocking on your wall of belief, your defence is to tell me that I can't post here because only people who believe in the same thing can post here, to re-strengthen your beliefs.

She is just referring the rules we all agreed to.

And, the god of hammers is no match for my beliefs.

There was a big crowd of mourners at the church house.
The section hands laid him in the sand.
Trains go by on the rails John Henry laid.
They slow down and take off their hats, the men do.
When they come to the place John Henry's layin', restin' his back,
Some of 'em say, 'Mornin', steel driver! You shor' was a hammer swinger!
Then they go on by, pickin' up a little speed. (Clickity clack, clickity clack, clickity clack, clickity clack)
Yonder lies a steel drivin' man, oh lord!
Yonder lies a steel drivin' man.

 

[FallingWaters]

You neither denied or confirmed. ...

The reason I did not is because you asked one of those philosophical questions that does not have a right answer.
No matter what I say, I'm wrong.

 

[horuhe00]

Oh well, enjoy your colective head nodding then. I'm sure you'll find further ways to understand how an all-powerful God can't do something.

ta-ta!

 

[metherion]

I know a girl who was born blind. Her actual "eyeballs" are severely deformed. They're not full-sized eyeballs like we're used to. The sockets are almost flat. I guess I was imagining that the man might have been born with eyes like that, and Jesus used mud to make up the difference.

When Jesus fed the 5,000 He started with a few fish. He could have started with nothing, but for some reason He didn't.

When He made the wine, He started with water.

Not sure what that all means... just thinking out loud.

Well, to me, it seems that the Father is the overtly grandiose member of the Trinity. It was the Father who created the Universe in whatever manner He did. It was the Father who made the columns of fire and cloud for the Jews to follow. It was the Father who brought the walls of Jericho crashing down.

The Spirit seems to be the subvertly grandiose one. It is the Spirit who is responsible for visions, both mighty and terrible. But those only really appear to one person or one small group at a time.

The Son then seems to be the innocuous one. The only two flamboyant things He did were to ressutect Lazarus and Himself. Wait, he drove a bunch of demons into a herd of swine who then ran to their drowing deaths. That's kind of spectacular outwardly. Pretty much everything else was fairly non-spectacular outwardly. No odd visions, no crumbling walls. Things transforming right beneath people's noses and people being healed were most (but obviously not all) of what Jesus did. Maybe it was to signify that God was going to stop interfering in the lives of men so overtly for a while. After all, none of the 3 persons of the Trinity have come down to smite people with holy fireballs recently. And perhaps the not doing things from nothing meant that He would instead subtly guide things that were already there to His Will instead of overtly creating/destroying things.

And about the girl born with severely defromed eyes- I'd never heard of something like that before. I'd say it was cool, but there is an actual person who is suffering because of it which is uncool. Thanks for sharing it!

Metherion

 

[FallingWaters]

...And about the girl born with severely defromed eyes- I'd never heard of something like that before. I'd say it was cool, but there is an actual person who is suffering because of it which is uncool....

I know what you mean.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[busterdog]

Oh well, enjoy your colective head nodding then. I'm sure you'll find further ways to understand how an all-powerful God can't do something.

ta-ta!

So, where is the magical land where no heads nod?

Is that also the land where no forum rules are broken and no point of view is every glibly dismissed?

 

[busterdog]

Surely the worst way to settle a discussion about who God is is to invoke who one wants God to be, is it not?

Since when do we every presume to "settle" anything?

Read it harshly or read it incitefully. You pick.

 

[shernren]

Since when do we every presume to "settle" anything?

Read it harshly or read it incitefully. You pick.

You seem to have quite certainly settled it for yourself if for nobody else. All I was doing was to point out that God is hardly obliged to conform to our expectations.

"Read it harshly or read it incitefully"? No wonder it's impossible for a TE to ever make a fellowship post here; one wonders if the fault is with the TEs. I'll make my exit before I disturb the peace here any further.