Creation and evolution both right??

[FallingWaters]

My God can create life through evolution.

My God can create life with the mere words of His mouth.

 

[busterdog]

My God can create life with the mere words of His mouth.

Amen.

 

[FallingWaters]

My God can create life with the mere words of His mouth.

This probably isn't news to some people, but I have several times recently read all the passages in the New Testament where Jesus healed people, and I had never realized before how compellingly He proved He was God:
sometimes He just used words, sometimes He touched the person and spoke, one time he made a mudball and turned it into a seeing human eye! How amazing is that?!

 

[horuhe00]

My God can create life with the mere words of His mouth.

Can he also create life through evolution?

 

[FallingWaters]

Can he also create life through evolution?

No, because there's no such thing as evolution.

 

[metherion]

Wait a sec. I don't remember the mudball into an eye. Where is that?

(not calling you a liar by any stretch of the imagination here. I'm just curious. I can't remember for the life of me where that is.)

Metherion

 

[Carey]

Can he also create life through evolution?

I thought evolution was just the mutation of existing life

 

[Tinker Grey]

No, because there's no such thing as evolution.

Would you agree that God can do anything?

Surely, if evolution didn't exist, he could create it.

Yes?

I mean evolution isn't a thing so much as a process. But, if God designed the process then it would exist. Right?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Wait a sec. I don't remember the mudball into an eye. Where is that?

(not calling you a liar by any stretch of the imagination here. I'm just curious. I can't remember for the life of me where that is.)

Metherion

John 9:6-9

Having said this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man's eyes. "Go," he told him, "wash in the Pool of Siloam" (this word means Sent). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, "Isn't this the same man who used to sit and beg?" Some claimed that he was.
Others said, "No, he only looks like him."
But he himself insisted, "I am the man."

 

[metherion]

Ah. Gotcha. I always thought that meant His combination of saliva and mud cured the man's eyeballs as opposed to making new ones, but I can see where one could say He make new ones from the mud and saliva.

Metherion

 

[Tinker Grey]

Hmm. I apparently read both your post, metherion, and FallingWaters' posts wrong. I just assumed it was about Jesus healing a blind man.

The passage I quoted is the only one I can imagine she was referring to. But, I wouldn't read it as Jesus creating an eyeball from mud either.

 

[horuhe00]

No, because there's no such thing as evolution.

So, your all-powerful god has limitations that my God doesn't have.

I didn't ask you if your God did create life through evolution. I asked if He could create life through evolution.

Since you say thet your God can't create life through evolution, you have a weak, limited God.

 

[horuhe00]

I thought evolution was just the mutation of existing life

"Mutates?! You mean, like, evolves?!"

 

[Carey]

"Mutates?! You mean, like, evolves?!"

If you want6 to call Mutating evolving does either word have anything to do with creation of la life form that already exists or simply altering it

 

[FallingWaters]

Wait a sec. I don't remember the mudball into an eye. Where is that?

(not calling you a liar by any stretch of the imagination here. I'm just curious. I can't remember for the life of me where that is.)

Metherion

Sorry, my bad.
I edited my post 2 days ago, but with the servers glitching the way they have been apparently, it didn't take, and I was afraid to double post.

Here's the scripture:
John 9:6-7
6- Having said these things, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva. Then he anointed the man's eyes with the mud
7- and said to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing.

Apparently, whether Jesus made eyeballs out of the mud is speculation, and I had it fuzzied up in my mind. I apologize. I certainly didn't intend to play fast and loose with the scriptures.

I guess I got the idea from a commentary I read online, and it made sense to me, but it's not actual Biblical fact - only conjecture.

 

[FallingWaters]

Would you agree that God can do anything?

Surely, if evolution didn't exist, he could create it.

Yes?

I mean evolution isn't a thing so much as a process. But, if God designed the process then it would exist. Right?

Yes, but I am saying that evolution is an invention of men.

 

[FallingWaters]

So, your all-powerful god has limitations that my God doesn't have.

I didn't ask you if your God did create life through evolution. I asked if He could create life through evolution.

Since you say thet your God can't create life through evolution, you have a weak, limited God.

Are you a Creationist?

 

[Tinker Grey]

So your answer to horuhe00 should have read "yes, but he didn't"? Or, perhaps, "Yes, but since evolution doesn't exist, he obviously didn't."

 

[busterdog]

Sorry, my bad.
I edited my post 2 days ago, but with the servers glitching the way they have been apparently, it didn't take, and I was afraid to double post.

Here's the scripture:
John 9:6-7
6- Having said these things, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva. Then he anointed the man's eyes with the mud
7- and said to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing.

Apparently, whether Jesus made eyeballs out of the mud is speculation, and I had it fuzzied up in my mind. I apologize. I certainly didn't intend to play fast and loose with the scriptures.

I guess I got the idea from a commentary I read online, and it made sense to me, but it's not actual Biblical fact - only conjecture.

Is the idea of creation ex nihilo a problem for anyone? Isn't that the issue? Must we defend that idea?

As I was imagining a silver coin in a fish's mouth, I was reminded of the fact that fish are attracted to shiny silver objects. Fishing lures are often just that. And then it hit me: Did God really put the coin in the fish's mouth or was it there already? If someone dropped a silver coin overboard from a boat, it seems quite plausible that a fish might indeed try to swallow it.

So, contrary to my initial assumption, it became clear that God didn't put the coin in the fish's mouth to make some kind of symbolic point. The coin was already there, God knew it was there, and He somehow led that fish to Peter's hook. This was indeed miraculous, but I think it also reveals something about God's character. Someone with God's abilities could surely have forged a coin and popped it into Peter's hand, but He didn't do that. He didn't have to resort to forgery. He knew where there was a coin no one was using at the moment, lodged in the mouth of a fish nearby. And as for the fish, while it would sting to be caught on a hook, it would no doubt be a relief to have the coin removed, and maybe Peter tossed him back in the sea, who knows. I would like to think this is what happened.

http://www.emergingtruths.com/coin_in_the_fish/coin_in_the_fish.html

The above is stupid. Had he not said "it became clear", I would have cut the very confused individual a break.

Are there many possibilities for how the coin got there or how the blind man's eyes were opened. Yes. But, what's the bloody point? I think the point is to make God submit to us on such matters, plain and simple. I think it is driving motivation for evolutionary science as well.

The fact is that these stories do not reduce to a plausible chain of causation. There are some stories that can. But plenty just don't. Without better authority, why not just say, well God could well have created ex nihilo. If that is hard or impossible to confess, well, we dont have much to talk about it.

Many evolutionists here do admit that there is nothing in the nature of God that precludes Creation ex nihilo. That's great.

But, let's do this thought experiment. You are blind. What do you want, A) God who does or B) does not create ex nihilo. Let's say you are broke and in deep debt, or in prison (like Peter). Do you want A) a God how is comprehensible, or B) one who, for all intents and purposes in your situation, does create ex nihilo and incomprehensively.

Quite frankly, I don't want to know much of the time. I just want God to be in charge and in power in all of these situations. I am happy to receive wisdom if that is what God wants. But, I want one expectation only: that God saves, heals and delivers and can do it ex nihilo. A limitation on the methods based upon my comprehension is about the last thing that I want.

By the way, plenty of creationist believe that God did create a-plenty with evolution after the fall. The creatures present prior ot the fall, however, did not evolve.

 

[shernren]

Quite frankly, I don't want to know much of the time. I just want God to be in charge and in power in all of these situations. I am happy to receive wisdom if that is what God wants. But, I want one expectation only: that God saves, heals and delivers and can do it ex nihilo. A limitation on the methods based upon my comprehension is about the last thing that I want.

Surely the worst way to settle a discussion about who God is is to invoke who one wants God to be, is it not?