Could you be wrong?

[Electric Sceptic]

You can't fool me, I know what a good old time you are having. How could you rock n roll if all you got from all the other members were only a yes or a no with no opinions, observations, elaborations, evasions or retorts? What kind of place would this good old Christian Forum be for you if you got only what you claim were the answers to your questions as posed? Ahhh, we would lose you right quick if we all agreed with you and all you could get was yes, yes, yes, yes, oh you are soooo right, ES, I can't deny that everything you say is correct and Absolute Truth. A mass falling on knees and kow tows as far as the eye can see...... "All Hail the Master of the Universe"*

*If it can be proven to exist, of course.

What is this mindless tirade supposed to demonstrate?

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Hmmm...so if I say yes then I'm being realistic, but if I say no then I'm being unrealistic?

In my opinion, if you say no, you are being unrealistic.

My answer is no to the original question about "what if wer'e wrong".

No part of the original question was "what if we're wrong".

Who said I'm perfect? Have you seen my life? Do you witness the things I choose to do? I make very foolish choices at (many) times.

Anyone who claims that, in regard to a certain belief, they cannot possibly be wrong, is claiming perfection as regards that belief.

 

[£amb]

Good luck to any believer who wishes to post here. Your answer will fall on death ears. It's not about wanting to learn anything, but to discredit what you believe.

In my opinion, if you say no, you are being unrealistic.


No part of the original question was "what if we're wrong".


Anyone who claims that, in regard to a certain belief, they cannot possibly be wrong, is claiming perfection as regards that belief.

Well, like you said, it's just your opinion. I have not seen you back up your opinion yet or answer my question "why does it matter if we believe God?". People have come on here to post honest answers and the most you can do is shoot-out one liners. Actually, they have become quite repetitive...maybe re-worded alitte. You keep asking "could we be wrong"...well many answered no. Did you only want "yes" answers? It mattered not what we said, but how you thought. If someone answered no...then that was fine for you, but if someone answered yes...boy you had an opinion ready. So for you to say your just getting information is being unrealistic. You already have your mind set to what you believe, so you want to be able to validate your belief. Oh, well, matters not what I say, because you probably claim I'm some crazy christian and not acting christian-like. Done.

Now...where's that unsubscribe button.




Hmmm...for you to be just "accquiring information", you sure have alot to say. You wanted to find out our "attitudes" on it, so why do you have a problem with the answers?

It wasn't my purpose in creating this thread to form a basis for argument, or even discussion, from people's responses. Rather, it was to find out the attitudes in relation to the OP to Christians.

However, I will take issue with a few points made by posters.



Of course you are claiming perfection, at least in regard to your beliefs about god. Any person who says "I cannot be wrong in X belief" about any belief they hold are claiming perfection in their perception of the things that go into making up that belief.



I think this comparison is entirely gratuitous. To compare knowing god to knowing, say, your husband, I find ridiculous in the extreme. Did you sleep next to Jesus last night? Did he sit across from you at the breakfast table? Go to the movies with you last weekend? You may say 'yes' to some or all of these things, but clearly he didn't do so in the same way that your husband did. I'm not sure of your exact beliefs, but most christians don't see Jesus in the same way they see their spouses, or hear him in the same way they hear their spouses; their 'knowing' of jesus boils down to nothing but a feeling. To compare this with a spousal relationship strikes me as disturbing.


The question/issue isn't ARE your religious beliefs wrong in and of themselves - it's COULD they be. Is it POSSIBLE that they are? Obviously, you will say that they aren't wrong, or you wouldn't believe them to be true. But the issue is COULD they be wrong. Is it possible that you are mistaken?



Of course it's an issue of Christians being right. Claiming that it's an issue of Jesus Christ being right is merely begging the question. You hold a certain belief; obviously there is the theoretical (even if not the actual) possibility that this belief can be incorrect. I am asking as to the actual possibility that this belief can be incorrect. It has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with you.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

Good luck to any believer who wishes to post here. Your answer will fall on death ears. It's not about wanting to learn anything, but to discredit what you believe.

I disagree. I’ve spent a lot of time talking to ElectricSkeptic or posting in threads he posts in, and he has never attempted to discredit what I believe at all. He has questioned me about it now and then, but never tried anything underhanded. I find your accusation that he is intellectually dishonest rather insulting.

I see where he is going with the question, and I find no problem in answering him honestly and openly.

Ghost

 

[talitha]

death ears

This may have been a typo or a misspelling, but it's very interesting......

Awake, Sleeper! and rise from the dead.......

blessings
tal

PS -- Dead people are not qualitatively "lesser" than living people -- they're just dead.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Good luck to any believer who wishes to post here. Your answer will fall on death ears. It's not about wanting to learn anything, but to discredit what you believe.

Well, like you said, it's just your opinion. I have not seen you back up your opinion yet or answer my question "why does it matter if we believe God?". People have come on here to post honest answers and the most you can do is shoot-out one liners. Actually, they have become quite repetitive...maybe re-worded alitte. You keep asking "could we be wrong"...well many answered no. Did you only want "yes" answers? It mattered not what we said, but how you thought. If someone answered no...then that was fine for you, but if someone answered yes...boy you had an opinion ready. So for you to say your just getting information is being unrealistic. You already have your mind set to what you believe, so you want to be able to validate your belief. Oh, well, matters not what I say, because you probably claim I'm some crazy christian and not acting christian-like. Done.

Now...where's that unsubscribe button.

Hmmm...for you to be just "accquiring information", you sure have alot to say. You wanted to find out our "attitudes" on it, so why do you have a problem with the answers?

There seems to be a certain subset of Christians who post on this forum who are eager to attack anyone who posts any questions or comments which they don't like. This entire thread has consisted of one question, a few people's answers to it, and a few people's comments about those answers. Sadly, it has also included a lot of insults and inuendo to and about me for even having the audacity to ask the question. People have invented things that the OP didn't say, invented motives that don't exist, and invented positions I do not hold.

I find it sad.

 

[Lokisdottir]

Good luck to any believer who wishes to post here. Your answer will fall on death ears. It's not about wanting to learn anything, but to discredit what you believe.

The same can easily be said of you lot.

 

[Multi-Elis]

I have a question, would any of you consider testimonies of people who had "near death" experiences as convincing proof that there is a God? I haven't heard people discredit that yet. Partially because I haven't been able to discuss it much with people, and most people aren't interested in reading these testimonies. I did try to talk about it with my atheist aunt, but she refused to debate the subject. If she couldn't personally understand it through math and science, then it didn't exist for her.

Well anyway, to answer the original question, I have a hard time getting my brain around how these testimonies could all be a bluff -- I have just read or met to many books and people to believe otherwise. The testimonies all portray God as good and loving and as light. Actually, usually people meet Jesus before they actually meet God the Father when they have a death experience.
I could, however be wrong about how people are saved, judged, go to an after life, etc.
I could be wrong about what is important in morality, life ethics, etc.
I could be wrong with all my Christian liberalism.

 

[invisible trousers]

i think some congratulations are in order to the people who basically ruined this thread.

yeah, i could be wrong. i'm human. duh.

edit: from further reading i gather some of you really don't like your faith being examined with scrutiny.

 

[gnine]

This is addressed to all theists, particularly Christians:

Is it possible that all your religious beliefs - that there is a god, that Jesus was his son, and so forth - are wrong? Is it possible that there is actually no god?

Yes, but the evidence suggests otherwise. However thats an entirely different discussion that I've learned is usually futile - you cannot argue someone into the Kingdom of God.

 

[Chrysalis Kat]

Good luck to any believer who wishes to post here. Your answer will fall on death ears. It's not about wanting to learn anything, but to discredit what you believe.

Why? I'm not the least bit concerned about anyone wanting to discredit my beliefs, least of all from Electric Sceptic who has stated several times that the purpose of the OP was information gathering. I have no reason to doubt this is the case.

To answer the OP directly, yes of course, I am open to the posssibilities that I could be mistaken. I'm cool with that. To me, this doesn't make my faith in vain.
If you want to know more, feel free to pm me.. .you know, just to insure that there won't be any thread drift

Meow!

 

[merryjig]

You're not supposed to understand it, nor should yu be expected to understand it. There are scales over your eyes.

Were it not for the Holy Spirit in Christians delivering discernment and understanding of God's Word and WHO HE is, we wouldn't understand it either.

You say that you're an atheist and you believe that there is no god, yet you accept the possibility that you may be wrong. That means you're not an atheist.

You're someone who is searching for understanding who simply thinks it's easier to start under the assumption that there is no God because you don't have proof.

But the proof lies in that gnawing sensation that just will not let you completely write off that there is no God. The fact that you say that there is a possibility means that you want to know the truth.

But you will never receive the truth if you continue to inhibit your ability to receive it.

Have you HONESTLY sought this God whom you say does not exist?

AAAAH there are scales over my eyes???? i didn't realise my dermatitis was that bad!!

but in all seriousness, i suppose im a weak atheist because, despite not having the remotest belief in god, i do not have a strenuous belief that it does NOt exist, i simply think it highly unlikely as evidnce leads me to that conclusion.

im not searching for anything really, im pretty happy and secure in my views, they may change, but im never gonna be a fundy of any religion ever, its unlikely my worldview will change at all.

i have never sought god because i dont believe in it...duh

the inhibit bit i didnt get..apologies

 

[Jetgirl]

Interesting thread.

But with all due respect to those who have certainty about God, I don't believe you. Can anyone honestly say they never, ever have doubts about their beliefs? It's an innate function of the mind to be somewhat skeptical and doubtful about things. There is great survival value in not being overly credulous--it's part of how our brains evolved. No matter how sincere is one's "faith" I just don't think it possible to totally suspend all doubt.

I disagree. I've been in contact with several people throughout my life who, on a distrubingly regular basis, fail to question anything. I know a vast number more who are very good at constructive skepticism, but simply WILL NOT question a certian subject. There is a barrier in their mind around that subject, and it is not eligible for any sort of rational examination.

Cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable. The lengths people go to avoid it are astounding.

And this can be in any subject, not just religion.

 

[rkslperez]

ok.. I will bite on this answering as a Believer in Christ..

I asked my grandpa that very question when I was little and he response to was, "I always thought if God was real.. I better live a good life and make it to see him - and if Im wrong and there is no God.. well I still lived a good life. I would hate to think there was no God - do lots of Wrongs - and then find out he did exist and now Im stuck in Hell."

So I go with him, at least if I believe he is there, I hope for something wayy better then this Earth...

But anything is possible..(I will just keep my fingers and toes crossed he is there

 

[Jetgirl]

ok.. I will bite on this answering as a Believer in Christ..

I asked my grandpa that very question when I was little and he response to was, "I always thought if God was real.. I better live a good life and make it to see him - and if Im wrong and there is no God.. well I still lived a good life. I would hate to think there was no God - do lots of Wrongs - and then find out he did exist and now Im stuck in Hell."

So I go with him, at least if I believe he is there, I hope for something wayy better then this Earth...

But anything is possible..(I will just keep my fingers and toes crossed he is there

The problem with this agument is:

You may not have the right God, and some Gods have mutually exclusive heavens: ie- being really good may get you into God A's heaven, but you might have to have a certian ceremony performed for God B's heaven, or preform good deeds a certian way to get into God C's heaven, etc. etc...

I mean, these don't even have to be seperate gods, within Christianity there exists a number of mutually exclusive ways to get to heaven.

 

[gnine]

...within Christianity there exists a number of mutually exclusive ways to get to heaven.

Such as?

 

[Jetgirl]

Such as?

Works V. Faith seems to be the one that I see Christians fighting over the most.

 

[Spherical Time]

AAAAH there are scales over my eyes???? i didn't realise my dermatitis was that bad!!

but in all seriousness, i suppose im a weak atheist because, despite not having the remotest belief in god, i do not have a strenuous belief that it does NOt exist, i simply think it highly unlikely as evidnce leads me to that conclusion.

im not searching for anything really, im pretty happy and secure in my views, they may change, but im never gonna be a fundy of any religion ever, its unlikely my worldview will change at all.

i have never sought god because i dont believe in it...duh

the inhibit bit i didnt get..apologies

I consider myself to be an atheist, and I believe I could be wrong. I don't think any (currently living) human is perfect, and without perfection you can't be sure that somewhere in your construction of your philosophy, you haven't made a mistake.

Of course, "weak atheism" or agnosticism doesn't really mean that you're not an atheist. Agnosticism seems like a knife edge to me, you can't really stand on the edge of the blade, you're always to one side or the other, and I'm on the side that suspects that the vast dearth of evidence is due to a lack.

Anyway, I'm certainly not going to question merryjig's right to call himself an atheist.

 

[Madcoil]

So why is it logical to doubt God's existence?

Because the existence of a god is nothing more than a hypothesis.

 

[merryjig]

its logical to doubt anything that has not been 100% proven, including scientific theories such as evolution. after all a religion is just a philosophical idea after all