That passage is about Jesus giving gifts to the Church.Ephesians 4:7-12 says,
7 “But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:”
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:”
Nobody can just be a teacher, or an apostle on their own power. God has to gift that ability to them. So it's a gift.
It's not the skepticism that is the issue, it is the MANNER it which it is continually done. I have no doubt there are some sincere skeptics out there, but they don't seem to be the ones asking questions. What I have seen - every single time - from those actually asking for "proof" is that they aren't looking for proof, they are trying to prove their own point and will immediately put down any proof that is given without a second thought. Every. Single. Time. Which is my point. That is not Christ-like behavior in the least.
Additionally, if TV is one's main source of truth for anything - especially Biblical ideas and principles - then they are not starting from an very solid foundation.
The three greatest prophets and miracle workers in the Bible are Moses, Elijah, and Jesus. We see that the miracles that they performed were a way to authenticate them as a messenger from GOD and the Word of God that they provided (that would be immortalized into Scripture). We notice that after each of these prophets, there was a time of silence where no miracles were done. Just like with the prophets Moses, Elijah, and Jesus, miracles authenticated the apostles' message as from God. "And they (apostles) went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the Word with signs (tongues, prophecies, healing, etc.) following. Amen."
So the purpose of the gifts was to confirm that the Word was indeed from God. No such gifts are needed today to confirm the Bible as being true or from God. Most today know that the Holy Bible is “the book” above all books, and it is God's Holy Word. There are many evidences today that back up the Bible.
I believe the gospel also progressed, as well. If you read the beginning of Mark 1, it references the words “the beginning of the gospel” and talks about John the Baptist being a forerunner for the coming of the Lord, etc.; Surely we are not still forerunning the 1st coming of Jesus' ministry still with John the Baptist as a part of the gospel. Jesus has already came, died on the cross, and was risen, and He went up to Heaven to sit down at the right hand of the Father. Before the cross: The disciples did not preach the ultimate fruition of the gospel (Which is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that says that we are to believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation). So the gospel has evolved and progressed since it's original beginnings.
I am looking for a sincere explanation WITH SCRIPTURE to not only give a rebuttal to the points I made in the Cessationist thread link I provided in the OP, but I am looking for sound apologetics WITH SCRIPTURE to defend Continuationism.
So you are saying that we are now in the gospel of the grace of God, which was committed to paul For us gentiles.
The gospel of the kingdom is not for us correct? It was for Israel
On the other hand, if you believe in continuing infallible prophecy, you run into the problem of why the writings of infallible prophets don't get added to Scripture.
I am not sure you understood what I am talking about.
1 “The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.” (Mark 1:1-5).
Again, we can see the beginning of the GOSPEL included a description of John the baptist being a forerunner for the coming of Jesus. This is still not happening today. So the gospel has progressed or evolved. The ultimate fruition of the GOSPEL (like an apple seed being planted to evolve into an apple tree), or the heart of the GOSPEL is this:
1 “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;This is the central point of the GOSPEL or the good news.
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
We are not preaching the beginning of the gospel of John the Baptist forerunning the coming of the Lord alone, and leaving the story end there involving the gospel.
Let me rephrase, is the good news now about Jesus coming as our promised king, to usher in the kingdom of heaven on earth?
Let me rephrase, is the good news now about Jesus coming as our promised king, to usher in the kingdom of heaven on earth?
I've done all three. Does that make a difference to you? Didn't think so.Well, when did you last raise somebody from the dead (Acts of the Apostles 9:40)?
When did you last speak in a foreign language that you had not learned (Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11)?
When did you last accurately predict a major world event (Acts of the Apostles 11:27-28)?
As I am following along with these posts, it looks like "Bible Highlighter" couldn't have made the answer to your question any clearer than he did by highlighting the answer in red, straight from Scripture.Let me rephrase, is the good news now about Jesus coming as our promised king, to usher in the kingdom of heaven on earth?
You may call it a gift (or an "assignment," or "responsibility"??) but it still is not a gift in the sense that the miraculous and unnatural abilities suddenly being acquired by people thanks to the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" were.
So we cannot add any new prophetic words to that book or the end of the Bible.
Continuationists also seem to be more accepting of things I know are clearly false or unbiblical
Incorrect/incomplete/narrow understanding of prophecy overall and Deut 18:20-22Which is why most modern Continuationists say that infallible NT prophecy has ceased, but fallible NT prophecy has continued.
Personally, I see no evidence in the NT of a "gift of fallible prophecy." It also seems like a pretty useless gift. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 indicates that fallible "prophets" should be put to death.
That fits in with this "doctrine of fallible prophecy." It allows "prophets" to be wrong without any real accountability.
Incorrect/incomplete/narrow understanding of prophecy overall and Deut 18:20-22
Also incorrect. I wrote a long post on here in the sign gifts section breaking this very thing down. It was designed to only be part 1 of a series explaining prophecy and full of Biblical arguments. You know what? Hardly anyone looks at that. You know why? Most people don't care to learn, they only care about being right.In other words, you disagree, but have no Biblical argument to back up your opinion.
I did not call it a gift. Scripture calls it a gift. Just go back and read the passage again.
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