Conundrum about the death and the afterlife

[seeingeyes]

Or to someone who doesn't believe in the afterlife

Right. It's useless in both cases.

 

[Tree of Life]

Is it? For what?

I can see how sensual pleasure has value, but I don't see how power has value aside from establishing a good government.

We can do nothing without power. We need power to move our bodies, warm our houses, think critically, etc. Power is the energy and ability to do anything at all - especially to do the things that we want or need to do. So power is good.

 

[jayem]

For those that do not believe in an afterlife, what consolation is there when you see people die around you?

When my father died of metastatic cancer at 86, honestly, I first felt relief. For 2 months he was mostly bed-ridden with cancer in his lungs, liver, and spine, and was zonked out on narcotics. It saddened me briefly, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized there was really nothing to feel down about. He actually had a pretty great life. Except for the last 6 months he was in good health. He and my mother had a strong 50+ year marriage, were financially secure, they traveled extensively, had plenty of friends and activities they enjoyed, and never had to worry about my sister and me. He accepted his diagnosis, and (thanks to plenty of oxycodone) wasn't in pain. He died peacefully at home, with all of us around him. So I'm not sad. I'm envious. I can only hope my life turns out as well as his.

 

[juvenissun]

Thanks for all the great responses.




This is a very good point. Belief in an afterlife doesn't really effect the mourning of the person who is now gone in this life.

I always find it strange that Christians mourn so much…aren't they going to see them again anyway? It doesn't seem like religious people handle the loss any better or worse than non-religious people, despite the fact that one believes they will see them again and one believes they are gone forever.

How much? More than non-Christians? I don't see that is true.

 

[Radagast]

If there is no afterlife, from my perspective, it makes this life more meaningful. Any form of an afterlife decreases the significance and importance of the life I am living now.

Is the significance of childhood decreased by knowing you will live past the age of 18?

 

[Eudaimonist]

We can do nothing without power. We need power to move our bodies, warm our houses, think critically, etc. Power is the energy and ability to do anything at all - especially to do the things that we want or need to do. So power is good.

And here I thought you meant what people normally mean by power when discussing ethics. How silly of me.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

Is the significance of childhood decreased by knowing you will live past the age of 18?

Yes, but only by a teeny, tiny bit. The decrease is nothing compared to discussing infinities.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[PsychoSarah]

How much? More than non-Christians? I don't see that is true.

No, I would say the mourning is about equal, between people such as myself who view death as nonexistence, and people who view said person as going to heaven. See the problem? People who truly believe they will see the deceased again in a better place shouldn't cry as hard as someone who thinks that person is gone forever

 

[juvenissun]

No, I would say the mourning is about equal, between people such as myself who view death as nonexistence, and people who view said person as going to heaven. See the problem? People who truly believe they will see the deceased again in a better place shouldn't cry as hard as someone who thinks that person is gone forever

How do you know that Christians are not crying less? I think they cried less.

 

[seeingeyes]

How do you know that Christians are not crying less? I think they cried less.

I doubt it.

 

[juvenissun]

I doubt it.

It is fine.

This only argues that the idea in the OP is not fact-supported, but is just an opinion.

 

[PsychoSarah]

How do you know that Christians are not crying less? I think they cried less.

Because I have been to funerals.

 

[Eudaimonist]

How do you know that Christians are not crying less? I think they cried less.

Not in my experience.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[juvenissun]

Because I have been to funerals.

I have been many too.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I have been many too.

Those who cried the most were those who knew the deceased the best; religion was irrelevant.

 

[seeingeyes]

It is fine.

This only argues that the idea in the OP is not fact-supported, but is just an opinion.

That's true.

Life is not necessarily more precious just because it ends at some point.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

When my father died of metastatic cancer at 86, honestly, I first felt relief. For 2 months he was mostly bed-ridden with cancer in his lungs, liver, and spine, and was zonked out on narcotics. It saddened me briefly, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized there was really nothing to feel down about. He actually had a pretty great life. Except for the last 6 months he was in good health. He and my mother had a strong 50+ year marriage, were financially secure, they traveled extensively, had plenty of friends and activities they enjoyed, and never had to worry about my sister and me. He accepted his diagnosis, and (thanks to plenty of oxycodone) wasn't in pain. He died peacefully at home, with all of us around him. So I'm not sad. I'm envious. I can only hope my life turns out as well as his.

This was my sentiment when my 85 year old grandfather died. When old people who have lived a long life die, there is not as much mourning, shock or sadness.

But what about when younger people die? And, at what point is "young"? If my 59 year old father died tomorrow, it would be shocking and sad because he is still so healthy and has so much life ahead of him. Despite the fact that 50 years ago he would be at a ripe old age...

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

How much? More than non-Christians? I don't see that is true.

No, about equally so I would say. As Sarah said, the amount of mourning seems much more closely linked to how close you were to the deceased rather than your beliefs on the afterlife.

But someone who believes they are going to be reunited with their loved ones in a few short years and then spend eternal bliss with them shouldn't really be mourning, should they? It makes no sense to mourn in that situation.

I don't mourn when my friends go away for two weeks on vacation because I am fairly certain I'll see them again…from a Christian perspective, isn't this the same with death?

 

[seeingeyes]

I don't mourn when my friends go away for two weeks on vacation because I am fairly certain I'll see them again…from a Christian perspective, isn't this the same with death?

What if they left for 50 years on vacation?

I don't know of anyone who only expects to live two weeks.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Is the significance of childhood decreased by knowing you will live past the age of 18?

If, after I turned 18 my life became one of bliss and perfection, then yes. All the pain, trials, frustration, joy and peace of my childhood would seem somewhat pointless in the long run…

Are you suggesting that the afterlife is just a continuation of this life in every single way? Because when I was 17 years old and 364 days, I felt no different when I woke up the next day at 18. Will that be like death? You wake up the next day from a short nap and just keep living past your death day?