Contraception???

[Michael G]

Lots of people have to undergo surgery. If a woman has her ovaries removed due to ovarian cancer are you gonna condemn her?

Cancer is one thing. Having ovaries removed because of cancer is not bodily mutilation. Having ovaries removed to avoid pregnancy is bodily mutilation. I am not the judge. God is. Do you really want to challenge God who can read everyone's thoughts and intentions?

 

[JacksLadder]

Neither is an option. Both are opposed by the teaching of the Church. The pill is abortifacient. If you use it, you will likely be guilty of murder in your life time. And the Old Testament is pretty clear about bodily mutilation.

The case for body restucturing

Matthew 5:30 (Contemporary English Version)

30If your right hand causes you to sin, chop it off and throw it away! It is better to lose one part of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Deleted.

 

[Michael G]

The case for body restucturing

Matthew 5:30 (Contemporary English Version)

30If your right hand causes you to sin, chop it off and throw it away! It is better to lose one part of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Be very careful misquoting scripture.

 

[MariaRegina]

Well the motive for me getting sterilized isn't out of self hatred, or loathing. I'd genuinely fear I'd be an abusive (emotionally, psychologically) parent. So unless I stay single forever, I'm going to have to go with something and the *snip* seems to be the most morally acceptable.

If you really fear that you will be an abusive parent, then seek counseling from both your priest and a professional. Do not get married until that is rectified. And you should share this information with your potential spouse.

Remember: no secrets should come between spouses.

 

[127.0.0.1]

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[HandmaidenOfGod]

True, but we must realize that Priests are not infallible, and that some priests are better spiritual fathers than others. Therefore, one must be careful when selecting a spiritual father. I know some priests who will not hear confessions or serve as a spiritual father as they recognize their own limitations and/or lack of a seminary education (they took correspondence courses). Even a seminary training may not be adequate if a seminary is not properly run. Other priests do not recognize their limitations, for example, for a year I had a spiritual father who was on psychoactive meds. I suffered greatly under him as he demanded strict obedience, was haughty, and was inconsistent in his advice. Finally, the parish counsel had a falling out with him, and he was placed in another parish.

Remember that in Greece under the Ottoman rule due to the lack of seminary training, "mass" priests could not hear confessions, give sermons, or offer spiritual advice. They could only celebrate the Divine Liturgy and Holy Services. The people went to the monasteries to confess their sins or depended on traveling hieromonks to confess them and give sermons.

We are not in Greece under Ottoman rule.

Our priests in the US for the most part, are well educated. If you are unsatisfied with your Spiritual father, seek out a new one.

While preists are fallible, the advice of an internet forum on a subject like this is shaky at best, completely wrong at worst.

It is arguements over BC, pews, beards, and calendars that drive people away from Orthodoxy rather than draw them towards it.

 

[127.0.0.1]

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[-Kyriaki-]

The case for body restucturing

Matthew 5:30 (Contemporary English Version)

30If your right hand causes you to sin, chop it off and throw it away! It is better to lose one part of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

*grins*

actually, if you were going to take that verse and apply it to the situation then you'd do what Origen did... (google it if you don't know)

I doubt that that is what you'd actually want to do

 

[MariaRegina]

It is arguements over BC, pews, beards, and calendars that drive people away from Orthodoxy rather than draw them towards it.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing. However, when people become sarcastic, choose to take offense when no offense is intended, and/or take people's statements out of context, that is what really drives people away.

It is not what we say that upsets people, but how we say it or how someone else misinterprets the post.

Again, according to discourse analysis studies, we must realize that only 20 percent of what we intend to communicate is present in a written text. Bodily language (eye contact, facial expressions, hand, arm, and head gestures, and bodily movements) and prosody (tone, pitch, accents, word stress, and pauses in our speech) convey the rest of the 80 percent of our message.

 

[Etsi]

Trust in God and do good. There is no reason to take an abortifacient pill or be spayed/neutered like an animal. We are humans with an immortal soul.

There are reasons (snip). A woman who has had nearly a dozen children, is exhausted, and fears being with her husband because she fears another pregnancy. We asked our priest about this, because we have been faced with this situation ourselves, but did not want to go against Church teaching. He said that the church is not against it altogether. It seemed that intent and circumstance factor in as well.

 

[NyssaTheHobbit]

There's also the case of, too many C-sections and a body that can't take another one. Or being forced by the state to get "fixed" or no more state aid....

 

[jckstraw72]

im sure this wont go over well, but St. Clement of Alexandria says that for Christians, once a couple has had its share of children they live as brother and sister ...

 

[Etsi]

im sure this wont go over well, but St. Clement of Alexandria says that for Christians, once a couple has had its share of children they live as brother and sister ...

No, it doesn't go over well. The Church recognises that sex is not JUST for procreation. Also, if the couple are still young and have had children one after another, but still young, pushing your spouse off off intimacy is a sure way to cause them to stumble. A couple may be exhausted, but they aren't old and dead (and even some elderly aren't "dead").

 

[127.0.0.1]

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[Etsi]

Completely unrealistic, and not because we live in modern times either, but because some people actually like sex.



More than that. We have members in the Childfree section you have serious mental health issues and can't take care of children. Yet they do benefit greatly from marriage.

It'd be pretty cruel for a lot of people if they couldn't be married simply because they wouldn't make good parents. There are some people who'd difficulty just functioning without their spouses.

Very true. Though I personally believe that most people should be open to having children, there are those that cannot for one reason or another. They should not be deprived of such companionship and intimacy just because they can't for whatever their reasons are.

BTW, I came over from being extreme on the Quiverfull side to being open to life, but understanding that there might come a time when a couple says "I know I'm done". I'd say that it's between the couple, God, and no farther than their priest.

 

[Etsi]

Completely unrealistic, and not because we live in modern times either, but because some people actually like sex.



More than that. We have members in the Childfree section you have serious mental health issues and can't take care of children. Yet they do benefit greatly from marriage.

It'd be pretty cruel for a lot of people if they couldn't be married simply because they wouldn't make good parents. There are some people who'd difficulty just functioning without their spouses.

Very true. Though I personally believe that most people should be open to having children, there are those that cannot for one reason or another. They should not be deprived of such companionship and intimacy just because they can't for whatever their reasons are.

BTW, I came over from being extreme on the Quiverfull side to being open to life, but understanding that there might come a time when a couple says "I know I'm done". I'd say that it's between the couple, God, and no farther than their priest. The judgment of the entire church body does not need to rest on their shoulders for things that the members may not know about, may not understand, and may not be their business.

 

[Michael G]

Very true. Though I personally believe that most people should be open to having children, there are those that cannot for one reason or another. They should not be deprived of such companionship and intimacy just because they can't for whatever their reasons are.

BTW, I came over from being extreme on the Quiverfull side to being open to life, but understanding that there might come a time when a couple says "I know I'm done". I'd say that it's between the couple, God, and no farther than their priest. The judgment of the entire church body does not need to rest on their shoulders for things that the members may not know about, may not understand, and may not be their business.

It is the Church's business when the form of birth controll chosen is abortifacient. I still waver on bodily mutilation, ie a vasectomy, but birth controll that takes the life of a baby, even one that was just concieved, is murder.

 

[Etsi]

It is the Church's business when the form of birth controll chosen is abortifacient. I still waver on bodily mutilation, ie a vasectomy, but birth controll that takes the life of a baby, even one that was just concieved, is murder.

I'm against abortifacient birth control. And I'm not referring to the Church, but rather there are certain personal issues that I do NOT need to go into indepth discussion with each and every person in our church...it is NOT their business. Please note the difference between one's Priest and another member of the congregation that I made.

 

[Michael G]

I'm against abortifacient birth control. And I'm not referring to the Church, but rather there are certain personal issues that I do NOT need to go into indepth discussion with each and every person in our church...it is NOT their business.

You are right there. There are ALOT of personal issues that I discuss with my priest only. If he needs to go to the bishop for guidance than he is free to do so, but he understands other than that I want no one other than my wife, myself and him involved in the discussion.