Contraception???

[choirfiend]

I know it's bad form to resurrect old threads but I had a question about this topic and came across it.

Anyways. What is the difference (morally, spiritually , etc) between natural family planning (say making use of natural cycles to avoid pregnancy) and using a barrier? Isn't the end result the same- sex without pregnancy? I heard on Catholic radio they said that using a condom shows that you are "not open to new life". Couldn't that same charge be leveled against those who only have sex when they know it wont end in pregnancy though? I'm not seeing much of the difference they are both means to enjoy sex while drastically reducing the possibility of pregnancy.

This is a matter between a couple and their spiritual fathers. Here's what I know:

The priests I have heard speak acknowledge that NFP is one type of birth control like any other. In terms of comparing it to condoms, well....condoms fail every day. We don't try to pretend that there's any method of birth control that isn't, well, CONTROL like the RCC does. However, the same priests do not say that the only way to live as husband and wife is to make love no matter when or how many children you have. It's a more private matter, I think, to be considered with your spiritual father.

Julina,
The Orthodox do NOT teach that the sole purpose of sex is procreation. Infertile or menopausal couples are not told to abstain on that basis. It is a powerful force between husband and wife, and a condition that can be God-pleasing.

 

[Michael G]

so does this mean that infertile couples should never be allowed to have sex?

No. That is not the teaching of the Orthodox Church. Sex has 2 purposes: the unitive and pro-creative.

 

[127.0.0.1]

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[Michael G]

That sounds like a major exaggeration. Sure, condoms can fail, but they typically don't. They're effectiveness is rated to be about in the 90's percentile range.

That is actually very, very inaccurate. The standard pore in a condom is very large. If the aids virus was 2 inches square, the standard pore in a condom is the size of a double doorway.

 

[127.0.0.1]

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[Thekla]

On that note I would never recommend the pill to anyone. I don't know if it has an abortifacient property (I've heard different arguments form different pro-life sources) but it does look like it's really bad for your health (I'm sure there's a reason you're not supposed to take it if you're over 35).

Then, there's this:

But the broadest response came from where the sewer outflows and sewage treatment plants flow into the rivers from Pittsburgh; three of the four catfish caught here caused the breast cancer cells to proliferate. "Sewage might be more responsible for putting estrogenic chemicals in the water than the industries alone," Volz adds. "All of the hormone replacement products that women use go down the drain, along with birth control pills, antibacterial soaps, and many of the plastics we use, like Bisphenol A, have such effects."

worth reading in its entirety, from here:
Bringing Cancer to the Dinner Table: Breast Cancer Cells Grow Under Influence of Fish Flesh: Scientific American

(sorry for the OT )

 

[MariaRegina]

Then, there's this:


worth reading in its entirety, from here:
Bringing Cancer to the Dinner Table: Breast Cancer Cells Grow Under Influence of Fish Flesh: Scientific American

(sorry for the OT )

Thekla, your statement is right on topic. That is one of the dangers of birth control pills used by the younger generation, and hormone replacement therapy (horse urine) used by the older generation.

We are poisoning both our environment and our souls by using artificial birth control.

Both are unnatural -- and the women I know who take hormone replacement therapy say that the pills taste and smell like urine. How do they know, well they have changed male infant diapers and got a dose in the mouth.

 

[127.0.0.1]

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[MariaRegina]

Well...those pills are bad. We need contraception (better contraception). Not everyone can handle having 11 kids even if their bodies can. Or in some cases women need to avoid pregnancy because their health is fragile and pregnancy might prove fatal for them.


EWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Not having kids, nope. Don't want pee in my mouth.

Hey, that is the fun of having a male infant. They keep you on your toes and seem to know how to keep their parent's mouth shut.

 

[JacksLadder]

That is actually very, very inaccurate. The standard pore in a condom is very large. If the aids virus was 2 inches square, the standard pore in a condom is the size of a double doorway.

Actually that is incorrect. You must be thinking of condoms made out of material other than latex.

HIV infection is, by far, the most deadly STD, and considerably more scientific evidence exists regarding condom effectiveness for prevention of HIV infection than for other STDs. The body of research on the effectiveness of latex condoms in preventing sexual transmission of HIV is both comprehensive and conclusive. The ability of latex condoms to prevent transmission of HIV has been scientifically established in “real-life” studies of sexually active couples as well as in laboratory studies.

Laboratory studies have demonstrated that latex condoms provide an essentially impermeable barrier to particles the size of HIV.

Theoretical basis for protection. Latex condoms cover the penis and provide an effective barrier to exposure to secretions such as urethral and vaginal secretions, blocking the pathway of sexual transmission of HIV infection.
Epidemiologic studies that are conducted in real-life settings, where one partner is infected with HIV and the other partner is not, demonstrate that the consistent use of latex condoms provides a high degree of protection.
--CDC - Condom Effectiveness - Male Latex Condoms and Sexually Transmitted Diseases

 

[JacksLadder]

I borrowed a old edition of Kallistos Ware's The Orthodox Church from an EO priest I know.

It stated that artificial methods of birth control are forbidden in the Orthodox Church.

Yet when I picked up a newer book from my college campus, I noticed that in that book Kallistos Ware says something near about an Anglican/Episcopalian position.

Interesting........

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

The only place a couple should be seeking advice about sex and birth control is in consultation with their Spiritual Father.

Why this thread is 20+ pages long is beyond me.

 

[MariaRegina]

The thread was resurrected after being buried for more than a year.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

That, I understand. Why it got this big to begin with, I don't.

 

[MariaRegina]

Different questions are being asked, and from different angles.

 

[Michael G]

Actually that is incorrect. You must be thinking of condoms made out of material other than latex.

No, that is the pore in a standard latex condom. Further, if you use condoms with other chemicals it often makes the condom more prone to breakage.

The medical hole in the "safe sex" argument! Natural holes are present in
latex up to 5 microns wide - holes 50 times bigger than the AIDs virus,
larger than STDs and even sperm.* In 1992 a Food and Drug Administration
study showed detectable leakage of HIV-sized particles in one-third of all
condoms tested. The "failure rate" is 2.5% breakage -13-15% of women whose
partners use condoms alone fall pregnant in one year - HIV particles are
much smaller than sperm -that's like playing russian roulette with your
health!

The Truth about Condoms joint medical statement.On Friday, July 20,2001
the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services released an official
government document detailing the research on condom effectiveness.
STD************ Condom* Effectiveness
*HIV************ Relative risk = .15
Gonorrhea*** Women — No clinical proof of effectiveness****** Men — Some
effectiveness
Chlamydia**** No clinical proof of effectiveness
Trichomoniasis** No clinical proof of effectiveness
Syphilis************* No clinical proof of effectiveness
Genital Herpes** No clinical proof of effectiveness
Human Papillomavirus** No clinical proof of effectiveness*

Condoms used for vaginal intercourse result in a 14% pregnancy rate per
year of "typical" use.


http://www.mombu.com/medicine/medic...irus-sperm-pregnancy-intercourse-3810067.html

 

[JacksLadder]

No, that is the pore in a standard latex condom. Further, if you use condoms with other chemicals it often makes the condom more prone to breakage.

The medical hole in the "safe sex" argument! Natural holes are present in
latex up to 5 microns wide - holes 50 times bigger than the AIDs virus,
larger than STDs and even sperm.* In 1992 a Food and Drug Administration
study showed detectable leakage of HIV-sized particles in one-third of all
condoms tested. The "failure rate" is 2.5% breakage -13-15% of women whose
partners use condoms alone fall pregnant in one year - HIV particles are
much smaller than sperm -that's like playing russian roulette with your
health!

The Truth about Condoms joint medical statement.On Friday, July 20,2001
the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services released an official
government document detailing the research on condom effectiveness.
STD************ Condom* Effectiveness
*HIV************ Relative risk = .15
Gonorrhea*** Women — No clinical proof of effectiveness****** Men — Some
effectiveness
Chlamydia**** No clinical proof of effectiveness
Trichomoniasis** No clinical proof of effectiveness
Syphilis************* No clinical proof of effectiveness
Genital Herpes** No clinical proof of effectiveness
Human Papillomavirus** No clinical proof of effectiveness*

Condoms used for vaginal intercourse result in a 14% pregnancy rate per
year of "typical" use.


WHAT'S WRONG WITH CONDOMS? (condoms virus sperm pregnancy intercourse) - Mombu the Medicine Forum

Sorry I trust the center for disease control way more than a random internet forum.

 

[127.0.0.1]

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[MariaRegina]

Condom use depends on spermicides to be more effective. The purpose is to make war on sperm, and this mentality is anti-love.

In fact, St. John Chrysostom says that contraceptive use is a kind of homicide.

Condom use is only 90% effective or less because young people are impulsive and not that careful. In addition, third world countries located near the equator where the temperatures are higher tend to have less effective rates due to deterioration of the condoms. Furthermore, U.S. drug companies and jobbers tend to send their older unsold stock to these third world countries. These older condoms have a tendency to break during use. Obviously condoms with tears are not effective.

Let's face it -- condoms give false security and can contaminate the souls and bodies of those who use them especially if they have adopted the selfish contraceptive mentality.

p.s.
Bear in mind that some folks are allergic to latex or the plasticides used in manufacturing the non-latex brands.

 

[choirfiend]

That sounds like a major exaggeration. Sure, condoms can fail, but they typically don't. They're effectiveness is rated to be about in the 90's percentile range.

You're not involved in Pregnancy forums right now, where women post "Did you get pregnant using a condom?" or "Did you get pregnant using NFP?" or "Did you get pregnant on the Pill?" as an everyday occurrence.

It seems like LOTS of people get pregnant even when using any type of birth control. Effectiveness ratings are when used perfectly every time, no matter what kind it is. Very few ppl actually do that, and even not knowing if the ppl on pregnancy forums used whatever method perfectly, it is evident that my comment stands true. Condoms fail, or break, frequently enough, especially among people who are using them as a everyday BC method in a marriage or living-together relationship.


And my other comment stands true as well: NFP is human calculation to prevent pregnancy. We call a spade a spade.