Contraception

[cherryblossom03]

I don't have a problem with birth control. I'm still wondering why some people seem to care so much what goes on between a husband and a wife. Is this something people bring up to strangers, because if some random person walked up to me and asked me if I was on birth control I'd just look at them funny and tell them to mind their own business.

 

[fuzzymel]

It can be argued that using contraception puts a woman's soul in danger, as it is written that women are saved through childbearing (1 Timothy 2:15).

So childless women are automatically going to hell?

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

It can be argued that using contraception puts a woman's soul in danger, as it is written that women are saved through childbearing (1 Timothy 2:15).

Women are saved through the BLOOD OF JESUS, NOT pregnancy!. Pure and Simple. Salvation is not dependant on any work that we do, including childbearing. Using contraception will not send you to hell.

 

[EbonNelumbo]

Contraceptives=Sin....okie then. Noted the opinion...

Having 10 kids and not caring about one of them? That's a sin. Realizing you cannot take care of a kid and preventing pregnancy? That should earn an award.

I'm just curious how something which can prevent lives from being lost (if your view is that abortion is murder, then contraceptives prevent it, or for the mother dying, or the kid being raised by a crack head who lets her kid run out and get killed...) can be a sin...or rather, confused as such.

 

[Tdigaetano]

Women are saved through the BLOOD OF JESUS, NOT pregnancy!. Pure and Simple. Salvation is not dependant on any work that we do, including childbearing. Using contraception will not send you to hell.

Genesis 3
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it

 

[Tdigaetano]

No one has ever said being a parent was easy... no one said a parent is suppose to make their children love them. Infact its the oposite. The children are to love and honor their parents. Having 10 or so kids not many people have that many kids because at least in the US, both parents are usually working.... In most churches both Catholic and protestant they have Emergancy Pregnacy ministries that anyone can go to... Most people view this if your pregnate outside of marrige... but thats not true. If your married and you didn't mean to get pregnate its an emergancy and these groups should be willing to help you. There are several couples who wish they could have children but can't adoption is always a possibility... If a family can't for whatever reason care for any more kids they need to reach out to their communities and ask for help...

Contraception just continues to alienate people from each other. We have Churches and communities within these churches to help us through hard times and give us support and guidance.

My family has a friend who we go camping with every year. He and his wife have 1 kid of their own, and they have 4 other kids they have adopted, raised, and help get 3 into and through college and the other 2 are just starting Highschool. Just because you can't care for a child does not mean that there arn't people who are willing to open their hearts and their homes to care for these children.

The fact that contraception inclines couples towards selfishness has been brought out in many studies. "Contraception expresses a lack of desire to subordinate sexual impulses to the will and plan of God," writes Dr. Siegfried Ernst. Wanda Poltawska observes that contraception "destroys love, leads to unfaithfulness, and causes disintegration of the marriage."She is absolutely right. Since the Pill began to be sold in 1960, divorces have tripled, out-of-wedlock births jumped from 224,000 to 1.2 million, abortions doubled, and cohabitation soared 10-fold from 430,000 to 4.2 million. On the other hand, among married couples practicing National Family Planning, divorce is rare. Joseph Rotzer, M.D., author of the sympto-thermal method, reports not a single divorce or abortion among 1,400 married couples who used NFP. And Couple to Couple League Founder John Kippley reports a 1.3% divorce rate among married couples who teach NFP.

http://www.culture-of-life.org/?Control=ArticleMaster&aid=1419&c=3&p=

 

[cherryblossom03]

Contraception hasn't ruined my marriage.

 

[NHB_MMA]

Having 10 or so kids not many people have that many kids because at least in the US, both parents are usually working....

Contraception just continues to alienate people from each other.

I agree with what you said of the challenges of parenting, but that's it.

Nothing can possibly alienate a couple more than a lack of intimacy in a relationship where it is otherwise desired. If you're too busy working, because you need to support 7 kids (a number that is environementally unsustainable...if we all did this...contraception prevents extinction, at a minimum) your relationship with your spouse is almost certain to suffer. If you're not having the sex you desire because you fear a risky pregancy between that age of 40ish and menopause, it will take a toll.

In most churches both Catholic and protestant they have Emergancy Pregnacy ministries that anyone can go to... Most people view this if your pregnate outside of marrige... but thats not true. If your married and you didn't mean to get pregnate its an emergancy and these groups should be willing to help you. There are several couples who wish they could have children but can't adoption is always a possibility... If a family can't for whatever reason care for any more kids they need to reach out to their communities and ask for help...

I hope you're not meaning that a married couple should actually consider adoption in poor monetary circumstances??? I cannot possibly view a condom as a greater evil than a child separated from his natural parents. Adoption is pretty much a stable of the out-of-wedlock pregnancies and should have no place in a marriage.

As for adoption, there are many couples who wish to adopt, but the supply of couples waiting is far less than the pregnancies prevented by contraception, I suspect. It's simple fact that there are not nearly enough couples to adopt every child killed through abortion, and I have to assume that abortion is the last resort for many women. At any rate, the number would clearly be even greater.

Since the Pill began to be sold in 1960, divorces have tripled

That fact is sad, but it has far more to do with the fact that women now have career opportunities and job skills. Divorce is now an option (financially) for many more women than in the past.

abortions doubled

Abortion was illegal when the pill was brought to the market, so of course there are more abortions afterwards when it's legal. The fact that it only doubled is astounding. Clearly, some unwanted children were prevented before they even got to that point. And while we may disagree on contraception, we likely both agree that having a baby's brains sucked out by a vacuum is a horrible end result.

out-of-wedlock births jumped from 224,000 to 1.2 million

cohabitation soared 10-fold from 430,000 to 4.2 million

I agree this is sad, but I think it has far more to do with people marrying much later in life. Personally, when I was young, I was determined that I was going to do the right thing and save myself for marriage. In my early 20's, I was distressed about many things in life, and gave in to the temptation, rationalizing that there's no guarantee marriage will ever come (and it never did). It might be realistic to get someone to save themselves till age 18-20, like when people use to marry, but to ask them to wait until 25-35 or even longer is unrealistic. Therefore, more people see the challenge as unattainable and even up having sex before marriage. And the Christian community does nothing to help, as they have largely joined the mentality of "get your education, and marry later in life".

Joseph Rotzer, M.D., author of the sympto-thermal method, reports not a single divorce or abortion among 1,400 married couples who used NFP. And Couple to Couple League Founder John Kippley reports a 1.3% divorce rate among married couples who teach NFP.

That stability is something I really admire about Catholicism (the vast majority of those practicing NFP), but I think the low divorce rate is explained largely by the fact that Catholicism virtually forbids divorce in most any circumstance. While I do admire it, I am not eager to put myself into a marriage with sexual unfulfillment just to say I "toughed it out", when I do not believe that such a sacrifice is demanded of me by God.

 

[fuzzymel]

Contraception hasn't ruined my marriage.

Nor mine. I would be avoiding sex if contraception didn't exist.

 

[cherryblossom03]

Nor mine. I would be avoiding sex if contraception didn't exist.

Me too, then my marriage would most likely be ruined.

 

[tigercub]

It can be argued that using contraception puts a woman's soul in danger, as it is written that women are saved through childbearing (1 Timothy 2:15).

1 Timothy 2:15 (NIV)

11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Footnotes: a) Greek She b) Or restored

Now look at the same verse, in The Message;

11-15I don't let women take over and tell the men what to do. They should study to be quiet and obedient along with everyone else. Adam was made first, then Eve; woman was deceived first—our pioneer in sin!—with Adam right on her heels. On the other hand, her childbearing brought about salvation, reversing Eve. But this salvation only comes to those who continue in faith, love, and holiness, gathering it all into maturity. You can depend on this.

What is Paul saying here? At first glance, it appears that women obtain salvation though bearing, and birthing a child. I don't think this is the intended meaning. For starters, he is referring only to women here. We know that salvation is gained in the same way by everybody. Women do not have a special entry gate into Heaven.

Why would Paul, a man who has (in all his other writings) preach salvation through faith, then go and write something that instead preaches salvation through the work a woman does?

I believe Paul was instead trying to encourage women to birth children, and to not be afraid. Think about how dangerous giving birth was back before the medical miracles doctors can perform now. Women often died during or soon after birth! Perhaps what Paul meant was; even if you die during childbirth, God will still let you into heaven (assuming you were heading there prior to giving birth)

I'd be interested in learning the true meaning of the original Greek for 'save' If it meant literally to save from death or pain, then the whole meaning of 1 Timothy 2:15 is different from what many people think.

On a personal note, I have no problem with birth control (I draw the line at the morning-after pill, abortion, and the like) I do have one point to make though. For all the NFP/FAM users;
Whether you are using a barrier or hormonal method to avoid pregnancy, you are still avoiding pregnancy. If you are anti-contraception, and your argument is that the pill/condoms or whatever takes the control out of God's hands, and puts it into your own...well so does NFP/FAM. Let's be honest

 

[April Angel]

On a personal note, I have no problem with birth control (I draw the line at the morning-after pill, abortion, and the like) I do have one point to make though. For all the NFP/FAM users;
Whether you are using a barrier or hormonal method to avoid pregnancy, you are still avoiding pregnancy. If you are anti-contraception, and your argument is that the pill/condoms or whatever takes the control out of God's hands, and puts it into your own...well so does NFP/FAM. Let's be honest

The RC teaching is that you must be "open to life". However, how is it being "open to life" if you use NFP and completely avoid any risk of pregnancy by abstaining from intercourse (for two weeks) during the fertile time of the month? I know of one Catholic couple who went a step further and became completely celibate following the birth of one child. How is that being "open to life"?

 

[Chajara]

The RC teaching is that you must be "open to life". However, how is it being "open to life" if you use NFP and completely avoid any risk of pregnancy by abstaining from intercourse (for two weeks) during the fertile time of the month? I know of one Catholic couple who went a step further and became completely celibate following the birth of one child. How is that being "open to life"?

This is why I don't believe in any teachings against contraception. If you have to be open to life, then the only way NFP is cool is if it has a large failure rate. I've always seen it advertised as 99% accurate if used properly, so that goes right out the window. And if the problem is with artificial contraception, well... tylenol was made in a lab too. Does that mean I'm sinning when I take it to rid myself of a migraine? And the argument that "Tylenol fixes something, it doesn't break it!" doesn't work either because Tylenol will /destroy/ your liver if you take too much.

There just doesn't seem to be any way to be consistent with this position.

 

[Tdigaetano]

The RC teaching is that you must be "open to life". However, how is it being "open to life" if you use NFP and completely avoid any risk of pregnancy by abstaining from intercourse (for two weeks) during the fertile time of the month? I know of one Catholic couple who went a step further and became completely celibate following the birth of one child. How is that being "open to life"?

Personal sacarfices we make in our lives makes God happy. When two spouses can restrain from sexual pleasure during the two weeks when the two spouses are sexually drawn closer together, while still loving each other unconditionaly is a great personal sacarifice to offer to the Lord. Doing it for the sole reason of not getting pregnate and seperating the couple is wrong. Its about self control during the two weeks who use NFP. Birth control is essentially steriods for females except they are leagle.

Sex without intimacy is bad, Sex with mistaking intimacy for Lust is worse. The pill removes the intimacy from a relationship allowing lust and other bad habbits continue to prosper.

 

[Lupinus]

Contraception is mentioned no where in bible and nothing equivalent is mentioned either.

Contraception is not sinful at all because of this. I find that someone much have some weak faith in God's strength if they think he can't push through a piece of latex. I mean he made a virgin pregnant, you'd think he could void a condoms warranty.

If anything, surgery which is not reversible and makes conception impossible might be, and that may or may not be a stretch.

 

[cherryblossom03]

Personal sacarfices we make in our lives makes God happy. When two spouses can restrain from sexual pleasure during the two weeks when the two spouses are sexually drawn closer together, while still loving each other unconditionaly is a great personal sacarifice to offer to the Lord. Doing it for the sole reason of not getting pregnate and seperating the couple is wrong. Its about self control during the two weeks who use NFP. Birth control is essentially steriods for females except they are leagle.

Sex without intimacy is bad, Sex with mistaking intimacy for Lust is worse. The pill removes the intimacy from a relationship allowing lust and other bad habbits continue to prosper.

Birth control has NOT removed intimacy from my marriage. You know what would? A child neither of us wants. Believe me I understand the abstinence part. My husband is gone 12-15 months every other year, so I get it, but commenting on how someone else's marriage is lacking intimacy is not really anyone else's business.

 

[fuzzymel]

I thought it was good to lust after your partner? After all its not really lust is it.

 

[NHB_MMA]

I thought it was good to lust after your partner? After all its not really lust is it.

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy into the lust argument. Lust seemingly appears to indicate a burning desire for an inappropriate sexual relationship. Paul said if two people cannot control their lust for each other, let them marry. Okay...well by the RCC argument, what if they marry and still lust after each other? That verse would seem to indicate that a proper marriage is all is takes to make their emotions appropriate and I therefore don't think you can really lust after your spouse.

 

[April Angel]

Personal sacarfices we make in our lives makes God happy. When two spouses can restrain from sexual pleasure during the two weeks when the two spouses are sexually drawn closer together, while still loving each other unconditionaly is a great personal sacarifice to offer to the Lord.

However, that sacrifice should be a personal choice. If one partner does not wish to make that sacrifice, then how can the Church insist on it?

Doing it for the sole reason of not getting pregnate and seperating the couple is wrong.

However, this is the effect which it has. Sometimes, women are tired from pregnancy and want to wait a couple of years before having another child. It is then that they need to use contraception. Also, when they are too old or sick to allow themselves to get pregnant and thereby put their life at risk.

Its about self control during the two weeks who use NFP.

Some people lack self-control. So you end up with, either too many children or a married couple who touch on their own, in secret. The former scenario can lead to homelessness, poverty, disease, etc. The latter scenario can lead to divorce.

Birth control is essentially steriods for females except they are leagle.

Birth control does not stop with hormones. There are all sorts of barrier methods which do not involve having to take drugs.

 

[Tdigaetano]

However, that sacrifice should be a personal choice. If one partner does not wish to make that sacrifice, then how can the Church insist on it?

If one partner can't make that sacrifice for one whom they love do they really love their partner?

However, this is the effect which it has. Sometimes, women are tired from pregnancy and want to wait a couple of years before having another child. It is then that they need to use contraception. Also, when they are too old or sick to allow themselves to get pregnant and thereby put their life at risk.

I agree that if a woman gets to tired or is sick they should avoid pregnancy but I don't see how using Birth Control makes it ok....

Some people lack self-control. So you end up with, either too many children or a married couple who touch on their own, in secret. The former scenario can lead to homelessness, poverty, disease, etc. The latter scenario can lead to divorce.

I don't really believe anyone is unable to have self-control unless its a serious mental disorder... I believe its because people are becomming to comfortable and they don't feel like they need to try to control their urges anymore.

Birth control does not stop with hormones. There are all sorts of barrier methods which do not involve having to take drugs.

No it isn't just hormones but its still placing a man made barrier to prevent what God has willed. Yes if God wanted to break the barrier he could... or he could just judge those who have sinned against him. Gen: 11 is an illustration of man's increasing wickedness, shown here in his presuptuous effort to create an urban culture apart from God. That is what birth control is... its about accepting a culture that is apart from God.