Contraception

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Tdigaetano

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This contradicts your number four.
:scratch:

Natural family planning IS still planning.

YOu go with your heart tdig.
:thumbsup:
If your conscience convicts you,
then for you it would be SIN to do
any other way than you've described.
Bummer for you though,
and I mean that sincerely, because my
experience shows me that
most of the caths I know, IF Not all,
do use contraception.
So if they're going against their
conscience......... :(

Blessings
sunlover

NFP taught by the Catholic Chruch is different then The rhythm method many confuse it to be. The rhythm method is simular to NFP but its using science and other techniques to avoid sex during furtile times.

NFP is abstaining from Sex during a period of grave distress. Like mentioned earier in the thread (exaustion, money, work, etc.) For NFP to work it requires the couple to pray to God to help them through this hard time. They offer up not having sex as a personal sacrifice to God and pray until the distress passes. When the distress passes they resume sex and continue to be open to life.

This is mainly from:

1 Corinthians 7:5
5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control

The NFP the Church ok's for its members is a period of prayer during times of great distress. This can be abused... and used like the rhythm method, but it really isn't taught to be used that way. Just like a lot of other sins it's usually a God given method misused and abused by the unfaithful.
 
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April Angel

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NFP taught by the Catholic Chruch is different then The rhythm method many confuse it to be. The rhythm method is simular to NFP but its using science and other techniques to avoid sex during furtile times.

NFP is abstaining from Sex during a period of grave distress. Like mentioned earier in the thread (exaustion, money, work, etc.) For NFP to work it requires the couple to pray to God to help them through this hard time. They offer up not having sex as a personal sacrifice to God and pray until the distress passes. When the distress passes they resume sex and continue to be open to life.

The NFP the Church ok's for its members is a period of prayer during times of great distress. This can be abused... and used like the rhythm method, but it really isn't taught to be used that way. Just like a lot of other sins it's usually a God given method misused and abused by the unfaithful.

http://www.christopherwest.com/article4.asp
So what constitutes a “serious reason” for avoiding a child? Here’s where the discussion typically gets heated. Correct thinking (ortho-doxy) on the issue of responsible parenthood, like all issues, is a matter of maintaining important distinctions and carefully balancing various truths. Failure to do so leads to errors on both extremes.
An example of one such error is the “hyper-pious” notion that if couples really trusted in providence, they would never seek to avoid a child. This simply is not the teaching of the Church. As Karol Wojtyla (John Paul II’s pre-papal name) observed, in some cases “increase in the size of the family would be incompatible with parental duty.”[10] Therefore, as he also affirmed, avoiding children “in certain circumstances may be permissible or even obligatory.”[11]
 
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Calliso

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The Historic Christian Teaching

Few of you realize that up until 1930, all Protestant denominations agreed with the Catholic Church’s teaching condemning contraception as sinful. At the 1930 Lambeth Conference, the Anglican church, gave in to growing social pressure, announced that contraception would be allowed in some circumstances.

Soon the Anglican church completely caved in, allowing contraception across the board. Since then, all other Protestant denominations have followed suit. Today, the Catholic Church alone proclaims the historic Christian position on contraception.

Contraception is not a modern invention. Birth control has been around for millennia. Scrolls found in Egypt, dating to 1900 B.C., describe ancient methods of birth control. These methods were later practiced in the Roman empire during the apostolic age by pagans. Wool that absorbed sperm, poisons that fumigated the uterus, potions, and other methods were used to prevent conception. In some centuries, even condoms were used made out of animal skin rather than latex.

The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. "Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the sperm on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have historically been known as "Onanism," after the man who practiced it, just as homosexuality has historically been known as "Sodomy," after the men of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19).

Contraception was so far outside the biblical mindset and so obviously wrong that it did not need the frequent condemnations other sins did. Scripture condemns the practice when it mentions it. Once a moral principle has been established in the Bible, every possible application of it need not be mentioned. For example, the general principle that theft is wrong was clearly established in Scripture; but there’s no need to provide an exhaustive list of every kind of theft. Similarly, since the principle that contraception is wrong has been established by being condemned when it’s mentioned in the Bible, every particular form of contraception does not need to be dealt with in Scripture in order for us to see that it is condemned.

Five key points:

1) Trinity: Father, Son, Holy spirit. How do we tell them apart? There all fully God, We tell them apart by their relationship. The Father, fathers the son from all eternity. The son pours himself back to the father and the bond between them is the Holy spirit the 3rd person. They called Man and women into exisitance they made us in their image and the first command was to be fruitful and multiply.

2) The Lordship of Jesus Christ: The Lord Jesus Christ is our Lord over our time, money, talents, and furtility. He is Lord over Everything....

3) Children in scripture: No where in scripture do you find a passage that says blessed is a man who only has two children so he can afford their college education. Or the Woman who has at least a four year gap so she is not stuck double diapering or a couple that waits five years before having kids.


4) Soveriegnty of God: Could God have a better plan for your life then you do?

5) NFP (Natural Family Planning) is a balance the church has given us by acknowledging grave reasons that a couple could prayerfully decern as far as they can tell would be better to not have children, but they don't go ahead and have the act of marriage to try to destroy the contents of what would make another child. Instead out of respect for the dignity of the other person and the dignity of the act of marriage they sustain periodicly. This period spent sustaining from the sexual aspect of marriage should be a period of prayer where you ask God to help with your grave situation.

NFP is not contraception because it is a time of prayer and devotion to the Lord during a time of Hardship. Instead of partaking in sexual intercourse with contraception during this Grave time.

Abortion is the Black side of the shade of grey that is contraception. Abortion is stopping life because it will interfer with your life. Contraception is stopping life from occuring because it will interfer with your life.... Inorder to truely stop abortion we as christians need to stop contraception... If people will turn away from trying to prevent birth because it will interfer with their personal life and followed Jesus Christ and trust in him and be obedient to him, the world will change and abortions will stop.


I am aware of that little 1930 tidbit. But that doesn;t really prove anything. I mean at one time slavery was considered ok by most denominations as well. And you could make a much stronger case for slavery being ok using the bible then you could use for making contraception not ok.

The Onan thing has been addressed I think already by the poster before me and like a million times before in threads like this before. Basically I would stop using that argument cause it has already basically be proven to be false. Besides if ALL contraceptive is bad then NFP is bad too. Because part of the defination of contraceptive includes PRACTICES which NFP falls under.

Ok and the be fruitful and multiply thing is yet another severely over used argument. He was talking to speciic people at specific times. And you know what those times had in common? there was only like a handful of people on the earth total! Of course he would have told them to procreate! But that doesn;t mean all married couples MUST procreate.


Yes Children were important in scripture so much so that sleeping with your brothers wife if he died with no children was considered a necessity. But remember children were much more needed back then to help out in the fields. not to mention with the high death rates one needed to have many kids. And I believe only men could inherit anything. Not to mention a family with a lot of kids would be considered blessed because most kids would have died in infancy in early childhood. So seeing a family with a bunch of kids would be like whoa! boy are they blessed their children didn;t all die!

As for God's plan for me..you know if he planned for me to have children maybe he could have given me stronger urges to have kids. Maybe make me a better parental type of person. And best of all maybe had me fall in love with a man who actually wants children. Nah all the signs point to God not wanting me to have children.

Right if people turned away from contraception abortion rates would skyrocket. either that or we would end up with a total epidemic of abused and neglected kids. I mean seriously God isn;t just going to suddenly start providing when he didn;t before. I mean there are tons of people who have prayed for God to provide for them who are starving to death and dying of diseases and what not. Contraception is the main thing that PREVENTS abortion. Without like I just said it would be a total epidemic. Not to mention the population explosion. Pretty soon they would be sterilizing us at birth and putting to sleep anyone over 70...
 
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Tdigaetano

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It's not that I think God's given up on us, it's that he's endowed us with the gift of intelligence and reason and expects us to use those gifts.

We can invest our savings on the stock market knowing nothing about it should we suddenly find ourselves in need of more money than the savings will cover. Does that mean that God will just make everything work out despite our stupidity? No. It's not His responsibility to see that our throwing caution to the wind always turns out okay. But He might provide a way to learn about the stock market so that we can take responsibility and use it to our advantage.

I agree I just don't see how making correct logical decisions lead to God saying that Birth Control is ok or is it in our "enlightenment" though knowledge and science that God tells us Birth Control is ok?
 
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Chajara

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I agree I just don't see how making correct logical decisions lead to God saying that Birth Control is ok or is it in our "enlightenment" though knowledge and science that God tells us Birth Control is ok?
I haven't seen any actual evidence that God says it's /not/ okay, and I've prayed about the subject before. I'm on birth control now due to wonky hormones and I will remain on it for probably 6 or 7 more years until my boyfriend and I have built us our little nest. Only once I can afford to give my children a decent quality of life will I bring them into this world.

I view that as a responsibility given to me by God. I don't think God would be all to pleased if I allowed myself to become pregnant while we're in a dinky apartment, or if we were in a bad part of town, or before I have the experience I need to successfully homeschool them for a few years. Perhaps if we inherited a home and sum of money it would be different, as we'd be ready for children much sooner. But we're in a dinky apartment and are happy with just cats. :)

I guess the thing I differ on is whether God decides for us when we have kids, or whether he makes that our responsibility and we have to prayerfully make good decisions. I believe the latter.

Edit to add: Also, I don't know where some of you are getting this thing about how birth control takes away from the sex act, or that a marriage will fail if the couple is not open to life. Also, I strongly disagree that removing contraception will lead to less abortion. You'd have to change everyone into non-selfish creatures that never make mistakes and have tons of patience in order to remove abortion from the equation, not to mention you'd have to make womens' bodies function perfectly during pregnancy. That would make everyone... well, not human anymore. It's never going to happen.
 
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Tdigaetano

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I haven't seen any actual evidence that God says it's /not/ okay, and I've prayed about the subject before. I'm on birth control now due to wonky hormones and I will remain on it for probably 6 or 7 more years until my boyfriend and I have built us our little nest. Only once I can afford to give my children a decent quality of life will I bring them into this world.

I view that as a responsibility given to me by God. I don't think God would be all to pleased if I allowed myself to become pregnant while we're in a dinky apartment, or if we were in a bad part of town, or before I have the experience I need to successfully homeschool them for a few years. Perhaps if we inherited a home and sum of money it would be different, as we'd be ready for children much sooner. But we're in a dinky apartment and are happy with just cats. :)

I guess the thing I differ on is whether God decides for us when we have kids, or whether he makes that our responsibility and we have to prayerfully make good decisions. I believe the latter.

Edit to add: Also, I don't know where some of you are getting this thing about how birth control takes away from the sex act, or that a marriage will fail if the couple is not open to life. Also, I strongly disagree that removing contraception will lead to less abortion. You'd have to change everyone into non-selfish creatures that never make mistakes and have tons of patience in order to remove abortion from the equation, not to mention you'd have to make womens' bodies function perfectly during pregnancy. That would make everyone... well, not human anymore. It's never going to happen.

The church managed for 1500 years until the reformation. Protestant leaders at that time had told their faithful they were not to restrain from sex no matter what. This was then reversed in 1930.

Using contraception to prevent life is a sin... anything that selfishly prevents life is a sin. I understand that some people have sever issues and don't do it out of selfish reasons but out of concern. This is not a sin but it is a wrong doing. And a wrong doing is a sin but not a sin that leads to death.

1 John 5:17
17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

Sin is not confined to the individual but spreads like a plague it affects society directly and indirectly.

I heard of this event..

A man and wife had two daughters after the second daughter the man went through a vesectomy secretly only between the husband and the wife the two daughters never knew about it.

The couple had aged into their 50's and the two daughters were going to college one started hanging around with a group of friends who didn't take school seriously. And the other Daughter had a loser boyfriend. The husband and wife eventually realized what they did was wrong and even though they were beyound childbearing years they sought to reconcile themselves with God.

The man had his vesectomy reversed and on that very day both of his daughters called him and one told him she wanted to go to a better school and not hang out with this group of friends and the other had called saying that she had left her boyfriend. This act of attonment not only made the husband/father feel better but it also helped his daughters even though they were not witnesses of either the sin or the attonment but they were never the less effected by it.
 
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Chajara

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The church managed for 1500 years until the reformation. Protestant leaders at that time had told their faithful they were not to restrain from sex no matter what. This was then reversed in 1930.

Using contraception to prevent life is a sin... anything that selfishly prevents life is a sin. I understand that some people have sever issues and don't do it out of selfish reasons but out of concern. This is not a sin but it is a wrong doing. And a wrong doing is a sin but not a sin that leads to death.

I just said, I see no evidence that contraception is sin. This includes scripture and answers to my own prayers. I also don't agree that there are degrees of sin. But then, I am not Catholic.



Sin is not confined to the individual but spreads like a plague it affects society directly and indirectly.

I heard of this event..

A man and wife had two daughters after the second daughter the man went through a vesectomy secretly only between the husband and the wife the two daughters never knew about it.

The couple had aged into their 50's and the two daughters were going to college one started hanging around with a group of friends who didn't take school seriously. And the other Daughter had a loser boyfriend. The husband and wife eventually realized what they did was wrong and even though they were beyound childbearing years they sought to reconcile themselves with God.

The man had his vesectomy reversed and on that very day both of his daughters called him and one told him she wanted to go to a better school and not hang out with this group of friends and the other had called saying that she had left her boyfriend. This act of attonment not only made the husband/father feel better but it also helped his daughters even though they were not witnesses of either the sin or the attonment but they were never the less effected by it.

What does the actions of their children have to do with a vasectomy? I cannot fathom seeing my kids acting like idiots as adults and thinking anything other than "We must not have raised them right." Never would "This must be due to birth control!" even cross my mind.

Also, I'm sorry but I cannot believe that this story is entirely true. If it were the case, it would mean that my personal sin could cause other people to live their lives differently. I just don't believe that. That would make them not responsible for their own actions, then.
 
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I just said, I see no evidence that contraception is sin. This includes scripture and answers to my own prayers. I also don't agree that there are degrees of sin. But then, I am not Catholic.





What does the actions of their children have to do with a vasectomy? I cannot fathom seeing my kids acting like idiots as adults and thinking anything other than "We must not have raised them right." Never would "This must be due to birth control!" even cross my mind.

Also, I'm sorry but I cannot believe that this story is entirely true. If it were the case, it would mean that my personal sin could cause other people to live their lives differently. I just don't believe that. That would make them not responsible for their own actions, then.


Yeah I seriously doubt that story is true. Or if it is true I am sure what happened had NOTHING to do with him getting a vasectomy!
 
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Trashionista

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NFP taught by the Catholic Chruch is different then The rhythm method many confuse it to be. The rhythm method is simular to NFP but its using science and other techniques to avoid sex during furtile times.

NFP is abstaining from Sex during a period of grave distress. Like mentioned earier in the thread (exaustion, money, work, etc.) For NFP to work it requires the couple to pray to God to help them through this hard time. They offer up not having sex as a personal sacrifice to God and pray until the distress passes. When the distress passes they resume sex and continue to be open to life.

This is mainly from:



The NFP the Church ok's for its members is a period of prayer during times of great distress. This can be abused... and used like the rhythm method, but it really isn't taught to be used that way. Just like a lot of other sins it's usually a God given method misused and abused by the unfaithful.
Considering you've never menstruated, and I doubt you will in your lifetime, I don't exactly buy your suggestion that NFP is simple if one just prays enough.

No, its not. The menstrual cycle can be shook up very easily.
 
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sunlover1

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Using contraception to prevent life is a sin... anything that selfishly prevents life is a sin. I understand that some people have sever issues and don't do it out of selfish reasons but out of concern. This is not a sin but it is a wrong doing. And a wrong doing is a sin but not a sin that leads to death.
Jesus' blood should have dealt with this
sin consciousness some people have.
we are to love our God and others... it seems
like you're sort of making extra rules, no offence.
Yes, God desires godly offspring from marriage.
He said so in the OT.
Yes, He said go forth and multiply and fill the earth.
The earth is filled ! ;) jk.
I just dont get why youre pushing this thing so hard.
Sin is not confined to the individual but spreads like a plague it affects society directly and indirectly.

I heard of this event..

A man and wife had two daughters after the second daughter the man went through a vesectomy secretly only between the husband and the wife the two daughters never knew about it.

The couple had aged into their 50's and the two daughters were going to college one started hanging around with a group of friends who didn't take school seriously. And the other Daughter had a loser boyfriend. The husband and wife eventually realized what they did was wrong and even though they were beyound childbearing years they sought to reconcile themselves with God.

The man had his vesectomy reversed and on that very day both of his daughters called him and one told him she wanted to go to a better school and not hang out with this group of friends and the other had called saying that she had left her boyfriend. This act of attonment not only made the husband/father feel better but it also helped his daughters even though they were not witnesses of either the sin or the attonment but they were never the less effected by it.
[/QUOTE]
That's terrible !
Those poor daughters and that poor woman,
for her husbands recklessness.

And I"m not surprised a bit.
This man was living in guilt because
in his heart he'd sinned against God.

Our conscience has authority when it
comes to sin. What you THINK is sin,
for you IS indeed sin. So watch who
you listen to !
They may mess up your conscience.

Praise God that he repented.

sunlover
 
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