Contraception

[Trashionista]

If I were to offer a drug that caused a perfectly healthy and functioning biological system to malfunction and become completely ineffective we'd probably all label it as poison--and yet, that is what women are pumping their bodies with everyday. Yeah, that's real great for women...

The benefits outweigh the risks.

Its not as if non-hormonal methods [condoms, diaphragms], or spermicide are entirely safe. They can have negative effects upon the body as well.

 

[Calliso]

What catlover said is true. I support contraception 100%. I'm a woman, not a baby factory!

Yep me either!

 

[April Angel]

It is a futile effort to paint the picture of the use of contraception as being for the advancement of woman's position in society, or "betterment" as some say, and an act against the "patriarchal system" that seeks to keep her down, or something of that sort. In the latter case it is exactly an act in conformity with the will of the "powers that be", so to speak, patriarchal or matriarchal, though I think now generally androgynous but nevertheless single-mindedly intent upon mobilizing the entire world for the furtherance of their wealth. In the former case it is indeed for the worsening of woman's position in society, both traditional and otherwise, and only benefits in any way the aforementioned "powers that be", or "establishment", or "despotic forces of avarice", and so on and so forth.

First and foremost we must see that the only sphere of society that is of any true importance is that of the Church, which for most of us means the parish and the home, which are the Church writ small, yet in its fullness. It is only in the Church that acts of eternal consequence take place, such as the taking part in prayer, the sacraments and the creation of a new soul, called procreation, and the subsequent raising of that little image of God in the ways of righteousness. While the public sphere, in which we must unfortunately spend more and more of our limited time in order to pay tribute to the usurious "powers", is merely temporal and passing; unfortunate it is that it even exists.

It should come as no surprise then that these "powers" should spend so much time and money telling us that true fulfillment, meaning and self-worth is found in this second sphere. Indeed, the unfortunate fact was that the forces of industrialization and unrestrained capitalism tore man from the first sphere into the second, trading the family store/workshop/farm for the factory and office, and not that biology and social norms briefly and slightly hampered the effort to spread this evil to woman as well. The truth being that it was these "powers", such as the Rockefellers, who bankrolled and lobbied the research and social and legal changes required to make contraception a "normal" part of modern life.

It is a shame then, perhaps one of the most shameful of all things shameful, that so many women have become convinced that it was them who were dealt the raw end of the deal, when they were given the chance to remain in the only sphere that actually matters. Man is shamed for imagining that what he did was anything more important than selling himself for the necessities of his family's subsistence and not recognizing it was otherwise mere foolishness. Worse still is that man bought these lies of the "powers", these lies that made him a slave but told him he was a king, and then sold them to his wife and daughters. So, instead of man seeking to detangle himself from so much involvement in the second sphere, he pulls woman from the first sphere into the second, in order to make her "equal", meaning having the same function, and telling her not to have children in order to achieve it.

Careerism, that is, the belief that personal fulfillment can be found as a wage slave to the "powers", along with the belief that this second sphere is of more importance than the first, or perhaps even that it has any real importance at all, are lies straight from the mouth of Hades. Lies that send the husband to one office, the wife to another and the child or two, if any should accidentally exist, to some training facility to be raised in the ways, traditions and empty contrived soul-killing culture of the "powers."

In the end their state is lamentable, those who never know enough to regret what it was they could have had; a dinner table full of children, accompanied with a loving spouse and a prayer. And how much more lamentable still it is for those who, when they are old and near death and some shred of soul still exists, are filled to the brim and beyond with regret and grief. Regret over the children they hardly saw, the children they never bore, the spouse they hardly knew and the life they never had. A beautiful little life, difficult as it might have been, but a life providing a spiritual respite from the over-planned, whitewashed and sterile nihilist ugliness of the forces of modernity, which are the forces of the "powers" that promise the world but give only fleeting and meaningless pleasures and sorrow that knows no end.


http://pactum-serva.blogspot.com/

I take it that you don't believe in NFP either. That can cause untold misery too. ("Abstinence" aka DIY.)

However, there comes a time when women, for the sake of their health, have to stop getting pregnant. So, what is the answer then?

 

[HuntingMan]

The use of contraception is sinful. It is against God's commandments, and against the universal teaching of the Church through the ages.

It's use and acceptance has always led quickly to the acceptance and use of abortion, and currently is destroying Western civilization, through the popularization of extra-maritial sex, and sub-replacement level birth rates.



Have fun discussing.

Yeah, Ive always found that having 12 children that a poor couple cant afford to feed is a MUCH more godly and logical alternative to using the God given wisdom the Lord has given men and women to know when its not a good idea to have a pack of kids that will starve.

When you can show me that GOD says that not having children by choice is a sin, give me a ring.

 

[Lotar]

One of the greatest markers of our modern society and its destructive nihilism is its enormous predisposition towards naming things opposite of what they really are; "calling good evil and evil good". This is the case with procreation, which is now generally referred industrially and nihilistically as reproduction, though it is entirely impossible to reproduce a human being. "Baby making" involves the creation of a new soul, eternal but not preexisting, and thusly, is a matter of "creating" something completely unique that did not exist before, and makes it something profoundly human and quite the opposite of any dehumanizing machinery. A "baby making machine" is an oxymoron.

It is in this that we see the profound lie that is found in this "Spirit of the Age" (though the spirit of all ages is in some part a lie, I doubt many were more profound than this one). This specific lie we now address is that the production of products, services and wealth, which can be and is done with machinery, is life-affirming and humanizing. Still, as wholly soul-killing this first half is the second is all the worse; that being the lie that one of the most uniquely human of activities, namely procreation, is branded as dehumanizing and is falsely accused of being the function of machinery. Lord have mercy!

Furthermore, the great feminine gift, and soul-saving burden, that is above all things womanly, is rejected in the name of gaining value as a person, as if to be womanly and a person is an incompatibility. In the name of so called "Feminism" the deceived seek to become as men in order to find worth in themselves, which seems to me to be more aptly called "Masculinism". The further fault is that the men they seek to be as are not truly as men should be and are themselves already dehumanized, defining themselves by their industrialized activities as a biological machine, which they can only perform because inorganic machinery is not yet sufficiently capable of performing the same function. So I should say that the truly best name for the movement is "Androgynism", though they act in mind as "Masculinists" but fancy to call themselves "Feminists" in good keeping with the Spirit of the Age.

http://pactum-serva.blogspot.com/

 

[Lotar]

However, there comes a time when women, for the sake of their health, have to stop getting pregnant. So, what is the answer then?

Menopause

 

[Calliso]

Menopause

Health reasons can occur well before menopause sets in. And Menopause might not set in until a woman is well into their 50's. Also older women have a much higher chance of giving birth to babies with birth defects.


So lets say BEFORE menopause sets in a woman is told by her doctor that she is risking her life if she becomes pregnant. What is your answer for that? Should she just abstain for possibly years? I mean according to the bible that is not good. I mean doesn;t that verse about seperating say only to do it for a SHORT time? So what then? trust NFP? NFP is no where near as successful as artifical birth control. There is just too many what if scenerioes that could happen even if a person uses it perfectly. And while a person in perfect health that wouldn;t really mind another baby might not mind if a little oops occurs for a person whose very life is threatened it would be a much bigger deal.

 

[Calliso]

One of the greatest markers of our modern society and its destructive nihilism is its enormous predisposition towards naming things opposite of what they really are; "calling good evil and evil good". This is the case with procreation, which is now generally referred industrially and nihilistically as reproduction, though it is entirely impossible to reproduce a human being. "Baby making" involves the creation of a new soul, eternal but not preexisting, and thusly, is a matter of "creating" something completely unique that did not exist before, and makes it something profoundly human and quite the opposite of any dehumanizing machinery. A "baby making machine" is an oxymoron.

It is in this that we see the profound lie that is found in this "Spirit of the Age" (though the spirit of all ages is in some part a lie, I doubt many were more profound than this one). This specific lie we now address is that the production of products, services and wealth, which can be and is done with machinery, is life-affirming and humanizing. Still, as wholly soul-killing this first half is the second is all the worse; that being the lie that one of the most uniquely human of activities, namely procreation, is branded as dehumanizing and is falsely accused of being the function of machinery. Lord have mercy!

Furthermore, the great feminine gift, and soul-saving burden, that is above all things womanly, is rejected in the name of gaining value as a person, as if to be womanly and a person is an incompatibility. In the name of so called "Feminism" the deceived seek to become as men in order to find worth in themselves, which seems to me to be more aptly called "Masculinism". The further fault is that the men they seek to be as are not truly as men should be and are themselves already dehumanized, defining themselves by their industrialized activities as a biological machine, which they can only perform because inorganic machinery is not yet sufficiently capable of performing the same function. So I should say that the truly best name for the movement is "Androgynism", though they act in mind as "Masculinists" but fancy to call themselves "Feminists" in good keeping with the Spirit of the Age.

http://pactum-serva.blogspot.com/

So when women decide not to have kids. Or not not have more kids then they already have it means they want to become men? That is seriously one of the most redicoulus things I have ever heard. I donlt want kids but I donlt want to become a man either. I am proud to be a woman not wanting kids doesn;t prevent that!

 

[LLWHA]

If I were to offer a drug that caused a perfectly healthy and functioning biological system to malfunction and become completely ineffective we'd probably all label it as poison--and yet, that is what women are pumping their bodies with everyday. Yeah, that's real great for women...

Great post.

Galatians. 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20 Idolatry, (witchcraft, sorcery)pharmacy, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

Well imagine that. The fake, fraud science of pharmacy is for forbidden by God!

Well what are all you pill takers going to do now?

It states right here that you are not going to Heaven ("shall NOT inherit the Kingdom of God") if you mess with this pharmacy, fake science, pills and such.

Well is it Obey God or the fake god that thinks him or her self a doctor?

I lean toward and on God myself.

I'm not perfect and have made many mistakes.

I for one plan on taking no more pills that any fake god doctor wants to give me.

What are you all going (or plan) to do?

witchcraft, service of false gods [serving to idols, or false gods],

"All forms of horoscopes, Tarot cards, psychics, palm readings, fortune telling, crystal balls, Ouija boards, astrology, worshipping or contacting the dead, and sorcery are of the devil. "Sorcery" is an interesting word in the Bible. It is derived from the same Hebrew word that our word "pharmacy" today comes from."

"The original Greek word for sorcerer is pharmakeus which means "an enchanter with drugs." This, in turn, comes from the word pharmakeia from which we get our modern English word pharmacy. The word in its original Greek means the occult, sorcery, witchcraft, illicit pharmaceuticals, trance, and magical incantation with drugs."

"It does not matter what you call it, witchcraft, sorcery, necromancy, tarot reading, horoscopes, ouija boards or any one of a hundred other names, witchcraft is rebellion and therefore is a sin against God."


Our lack of faith and trust in Him is why God condemns the sin of witchcraft so strongly. In fact God condemns it so much that the Old Testament punishment for witchcraft was death. Exodus 22:18:

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.​

http://godshealingword.org/Prescription_Drug_Addiction_Pharmacy.html​

America's Great Pharmacy Seduction:
Fundamentals of Prescription Drug Addiction

[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]Drugs Versus God:[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]The modern English word, pharmacy, is derived from the ancient Greek word “pharmakeia,” pronounced “far-mak-i’-ah.” The root word of pharmakeia is pharmakeus, which means: “a drug, spell-giving potion, druggist, poisoner, a magician or sorcerer.”6 The word “pharmakeia” transliterated means “medicine from a pharmacy.” 7[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]There are three verses of Scripture in the Bible’s New Testament that condemns “medicine from a pharmacy.” They are Galatians 5:20: Revelations 9:21 and Revelations 18:23. However, before you go pick up your Bible, realize whatever translation you read is just that, a translation from an ancient text. You will not find the original word “pharmakeia” or “medicine from a pharmacy” in those verses. What you will find are the words “witchcraft, magic spell and sorcery.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]In choosing the words witchcraft, magic spell, and sorcery over the more accurately defined meaning for pharmakeia, “pharmacy,” modern day Bible translators (either by neglect or design) effectively obliterated any spiritual connection to taking medicine from a pharmacy. Now who do you suppose benefits the most from this tidbit of information?[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]Why God Condemns Medicine From a Pharmacy:[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]Pharmakeia is listed as a work of the flesh in Scripture (Galatians 5:20), because those who turn to drugs as a way of life (and those who encourage their use) place dependency on a false reality (an illusion) instead of in God’s provision. Pharmakeia is an insidious scheme, one that keeps millions of people from knowing the power of natural healing afforded to them by God’s creation..[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]Conclusion:[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]The price human beings have paid and continue to pay for prescription and over-the-counter drugs is staggering. Education and common sense is the best defense against this unholy onslaught on humanity. [/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]The pharmaceutical cartel thrives by seducing people to ask their doctors to prescribe them dangerous drugs for the rest of their lives, then hides and denies any responsibility.[/FONT]

 

[Trashionista]

Great post.

Galatians. 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20 Idolatry, (witchcraft, sorcery)pharmacy, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

Well imagine that. The fake, fraud science of pharmacy is for forbidden by God!

Well what are all you pill takers going to do now?

It states right here that you are not going to Heaven ("shall NOT inherit the Kingdom of God") if you mess with this pharmacy, fake science, pills and such.

Well is it Obey God or the fake god that thinks him or her self a doctor?

I lean toward and on God myself.

I'm not perfect and have made many mistakes.

I for one plan on taking no more pills that any fake god doctor wants to give me.

What are you all going (or plan) to do?

witchcraft, service of false gods [serving to idols, or false gods],

"All forms of horoscopes, Tarot cards, psychics, palm readings, fortune telling, crystal balls, Ouija boards, astrology, worshipping or contacting the dead, and sorcery are of the devil. "Sorcery" is an interesting word in the Bible. It is derived from the same Hebrew word that our word "pharmacy" today comes from."

"The original Greek word for sorcerer is pharmakeus which means "an enchanter with drugs." This, in turn, comes from the word pharmakeia from which we get our modern English word pharmacy. The word in its original Greek means the occult, sorcery, witchcraft, illicit pharmaceuticals, trance, and magical incantation with drugs."

"It does not matter what you call it, witchcraft, sorcery, necromancy, tarot reading, horoscopes, ouija boards or any one of a hundred other names, witchcraft is rebellion and therefore is a sin against God."


Our lack of faith and trust in Him is why God condemns the sin of witchcraft so strongly. In fact God condemns it so much that the Old Testament punishment for witchcraft was death. Exodus 22:18:

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.​

http://godshealingword.org/Prescription_Drug_Addiction_Pharmacy.html​

America's Great Pharmacy Seduction:
Fundamentals of Prescription Drug Addiction

[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]Drugs Versus God:[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]The modern English word, pharmacy, is derived from the ancient Greek word “pharmakeia,” pronounced “far-mak-i’-ah.” The root word of pharmakeia is pharmakeus, which means: “a drug, spell-giving potion, druggist, poisoner, a magician or sorcerer.”6 The word “pharmakeia” transliterated means “medicine from a pharmacy.” 7[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]There are three verses of Scripture in the Bible’s New Testament that condemns “medicine from a pharmacy.” They are Galatians 5:20: Revelations 9:21 and Revelations 18:23. However, before you go pick up your Bible, realize whatever translation you read is just that, a translation from an ancient text. You will not find the original word “pharmakeia” or “medicine from a pharmacy” in those verses. What you will find are the words “witchcraft, magic spell and sorcery.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]In choosing the words witchcraft, magic spell, and sorcery over the more accurately defined meaning for pharmakeia, “pharmacy,” modern day Bible translators (either by neglect or design) effectively obliterated any spiritual connection to taking medicine from a pharmacy. Now who do you suppose benefits the most from this tidbit of information?[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]Why God Condemns Medicine From a Pharmacy:[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]Pharmakeia is listed as a work of the flesh in Scripture (Galatians 5:20), because those who turn to drugs as a way of life (and those who encourage their use) place dependency on a false reality (an illusion) instead of in God’s provision. Pharmakeia is an insidious scheme, one that keeps millions of people from knowing the power of natural healing afforded to them by God’s creation..[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]Conclusion:[/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]The price human beings have paid and continue to pay for prescription and over-the-counter drugs is staggering. Education and common sense is the best defense against this unholy onslaught on humanity. [/FONT]
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif, Sans-Serif]The pharmaceutical cartel thrives by seducing people to ask their doctors to prescribe them dangerous drugs for the rest of their lives, then hides and denies any responsibility.[/FONT]

You do realize that there are women who have reactions to spermicides, and to latex condoms? As well as taking into consideration that the other alternative - the lambskin condom - isn't nearly as effective. Or the diaphragm - I don't imagine that's always particularly fun & easy to use.

Also, you aren't female - so I doubt you've experienced ovulation or getting one's period. The menstrual system is a lot more difficult to chart than people seem to realize - one that can be affected by a simple change in diet, coming down with a virus, exercising, etc. NFP or what have you without the use of some sort of barrier method AT LEAST is incredibly difficult - and I find it interesting that a lot of people who are suggesting this seem to be men. WHO HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED OVULATION. Or getting their period early. Or tried to chart their cycle - as they simply don't have one.

The women's movement wasn't intended for your benefit. Feminism was for women. Yes, the pill has risks, but considering you'll probably never have to wonder if you might be pregnant, or if you had sex too early in your cycle, its a bit hypocritical to suggest that us women are being irresponsible by relying on more reliable and scientific methods other than pulling out and trying to figure what's going on with one's ovaries.

I don't want 12 kids, and I don't care if I'm supposed to be fruitful and multiply. The truth is I could psychologically not handle raising 12 kids. It's a heck of a lot more responsible to avoid conception when one is not cut out for motherhood to 12 or even 1 child, than to take an educated, biological risk and hope for the best.

 

[QuakerOats]

Sorry, I believe birth control is a God-send, despite the risks. Like someone else said, not everybody wants, or can handle twelve children (or more), and some people should just not be having children at all.

 

[April Angel]

Menopause

In my case, my inability to carry a pregnancy to term came more than 10 years before my expected menopause. The doctor told me that if I get pregnant again and try to carry it to term, I will probably die.

Other people in this thread have spoken about the inability to care for a large number of children. I can sympathise with them. Psychologically, I am not cut out to be a mother of many children. Biologically, I was designed to get pregnant easily.

I get the impression that there is not much point in discussing this here because there seems to be an extreme lack of empathy in this thread.

 

[Tdigaetano]

As a Catholic I do hold firm that Contraception is evil. Any willing act of man or woman to prevent life is against the will of God. Any action against God is Sin. Contraception is man giving into Lust and selfish desires that seperate us from God.

Where as what Mary practiced as have many people throughout history is Chastity. Chastity is one of the fruits of the Holy spirit that dwells in us. We can offer up our sexual desires to God and avoid sex all together.

Christ accepted the Hebrew scriptures condemnation of contraception, as in the book of Tobit:

Tobit 6:17, 6:22

[Tobias becomes afraid because he has heard that Sara has been married seven times; every time on her wedding night each husband was killed by a devil. The Archangel Raphael then says to him:]

“Hear me and I will show you who they are, over whom the devil can prevail. For they who in such manner receive matrimony, as to shut out God from themselves, and from their mind, and to give themselves to their lust, as the horse and mule, which have not understanding, over them the devil hath power.” He then instructs Tobias to “…take the virgin [his wife] with the fear of the Lord, moved rather for love of children than for lust: that in the seed of Abraham thou mayest obtain a blessing in children.”

So this passage shows that sinful lust within marriage equals having no love for children within marriage. That would clearly condemn contraception.

Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his sperm on the ground.

Deut. 25:7-10 - the penalty for refusing to keep up a family lineage is not death, like Onan received. Onan was killed for wasting seed, but it will effect your family.

Like St. Augustine Stated:

"I am supposing, then, although you are not lying [with your wife] for the sake of procreating offspring, you are not for the sake of lust obstructing their procreation by an evil prayer or an evil deed. Those who do this, although they are called husband and wife, are not; nor do they retain any reality of marriage, but with a respectable name cover a shame. Sometimes this lustful cruelty, or cruel lust, comes to this, that they even procure poisons of sterility…Assuredly if both husband and wife are like this, they are not married, and if they were like this from the beginning they come together not joined in matrimony but in seduction. If both are not like this, I dare to say that either the wife is in a fashion the harlot of her husband or he is an adulterer with his own wife." Augustine, Marriage and Concupiscence 1:15:17 (A.D. 419).

"Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund[Fruitful]? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell. If a woman does not wish to have children, let her enter into a religious agreement with her husband; for chastity is the sole sterility of a Christian woman." Caesarius of Arles, Sermons 1:12 (A.D. 522).

Trust in God and turn away from Contraception. Have hope that the Lord will provide for you with the means to raise your family as Christ Loving Christians.

 

[Calliso]

As a Catholic I do hold firm that Contraception is evil. Any willing act of man or woman to prevent life is against the will of God. Any action against God is Sin. Contraception is man giving into Lust and selfish desires that seperate us from God.

Where as what Mary practiced as have many people throughout history is Chastity. Chastity is one of the fruits of the Holy spirit that dwells in us. We can offer up our sexual desires to God and avoid sex all together.

Christ accepted the Hebrew scriptures condemnation of contraception, as in the book of Tobit:

Tobit 6:17, 6:22

[Tobias becomes afraid because he has heard that Sara has been married seven times; every time on her wedding night each husband was killed by a devil. The Archangel Raphael then says to him:]

“Hear me and I will show you who they are, over whom the devil can prevail. For they who in such manner receive matrimony, as to shut out God from themselves, and from their mind, and to give themselves to their lust, as the horse and mule, which have not understanding, over them the devil hath power.” He then instructs Tobias to “…take the virgin [his wife] with the fear of the Lord, moved rather for love of children than for lust: that in the seed of Abraham thou mayest obtain a blessing in children.”

So this passage shows that sinful lust within marriage equals having no love for children within marriage. That would clearly condemn contraception.

Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his sperm on the ground.

Deut. 25:7-10 - the penalty for refusing to keep up a family lineage is not death, like Onan received. Onan was killed for wasting seed, but it will effect your family.

Like St. Augustine Stated:

"I am supposing, then, although you are not lying [with your wife] for the sake of procreating offspring, you are not for the sake of lust obstructing their procreation by an evil prayer or an evil deed. Those who do this, although they are called husband and wife, are not; nor do they retain any reality of marriage, but with a respectable name cover a shame. Sometimes this lustful cruelty, or cruel lust, comes to this, that they even procure poisons of sterility…Assuredly if both husband and wife are like this, they are not married, and if they were like this from the beginning they come together not joined in matrimony but in seduction. If both are not like this, I dare to say that either the wife is in a fashion the harlot of her husband or he is an adulterer with his own wife." Augustine, Marriage and Concupiscence 1:15:17 (A.D. 419).

"Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund[Fruitful]? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell. If a woman does not wish to have children, let her enter into a religious agreement with her husband; for chastity is the sole sterility of a Christian woman." Caesarius of Arles, Sermons 1:12 (A.D. 522).

Trust in God and turn away from Contraception. Have hope that the Lord will provide for you with the means to raise your family as Christ Loving Christians.

Unfortunately God doesn;t always provide. He doesn;t always bail us out of the stupid things we do. And I donlt get why people always say trust God he will help you pay for those 12 kids you end up having! I know two or three people out of like 6 billion that have a lot of kids and that do just fine and therefore that must mean God ALWAYS provides! But if someone doesn;t have a job no one says donlt try to get a job just trust in God people say get off your butt and find one! If someone is sick most here don;t seem to have a problem with people doing something about it..even if it gasp alters the body. But suddenly when it comes to having babies all that logic of before is suddenly thrown out the door and we are told simply to trust in God. Well you know what I trust in God I really do. However God gave me a brain and he gave me gut instincts too. And both these tell me I not only do I have no desire to become a mother I have no business becoming a mother.


Also in the bible it says only to seperate from your husband or wife for a SHORT period of time. I donlt think complete marietal chastity is supported in the bible. Oh and Augustine was an extremist I think who basically believed that sex and marriage was ONLY for procreation wasn;t he? Sorry but I wonlt even considered his words especially when he said redicolous things like people aren;t really husband and wife if they have contraceptive sex. that is just STUPID.

 

[Calliso]

You know most feminists aren;t the extremist type. Most just want equality for BOTH sexes. I donlt have any desire to enslave people or to worship Goddesses or whatever crap people claim feminists do here. I do however want for women all over the world to have equal rights with men. And that includes being able to say enough is enough I will not have kids or I will not have anymore kids! Unfortunately it would seem a few men here would love to return to the days where in the majority of the world women lived under the boots of men and were considered lesser beings barely above their own children in their own homes. I guess some men here can;t handle actually having women as equals.

 

[BreadAlone]

Don't take jabs at other members; and don't get off-topic; the thread's not about feminism. Thanks.

 

[Tdigaetano]

Unfortunately God doesn;t always provide. He doesn;t always bail us out of the stupid things we do. And I donlt get why people always say trust God he will help you pay for those 12 kids you end up having! I know two or three people out of like 6 billion that have a lot of kids and that do just fine and therefore that must mean God ALWAYS provides! But if someone doesn;t have a job no one says donlt try to get a job just trust in God people say get off your butt and find one! If someone is sick most here don;t seem to have a problem with people doing something about it..even if it gasp alters the body. But suddenly when it comes to having babies all that logic of before is suddenly thrown out the door and we are told simply to trust in God. Well you know what I trust in God I really do. However God gave me a brain and he gave me gut instincts too. And both these tell me I not only do I have no desire to become a mother I have no business becoming a mother.


Also in the bible it says only to seperate from your husband or wife for a SHORT period of time. I donlt think complete marietal chastity is supported in the bible. Oh and Augustine was an extremist I think who basically believed that sex and marriage was ONLY for procreation wasn;t he? Sorry but I wonlt even considered his words especially when he said redicolous things like people aren;t really husband and wife if they have contraceptive sex. that is just STUPID.

I agree that St. Augustine was a little extreme in his writtings. You are correct the bible doesn't support complete marrital chastity... That is why the Church has OK'd Natural Family Planning.

Some times I forget who I am typing to sorry about saying trust in God and he will take care of you....

This does not mean stop working lay around on the couch playing games. It means to work and not just follow parts of God's Truth that suit how you feel but to practice the entire Truth. God wants us to Work in we can offer our works up to God. God doesn't want us to sit around watching TV all day. We should be doing our best to care for our families and provide them with what is needed.

If a family has 12 kids and hasn't used fertility drugs and has followed the full truth of God. He will bless them. They may not have lots of money, big screen TV's, new Fast cars and They will suffer for the Lord and keep loving the Lord. Life isn't about avoiding suffering and work. Its about accepting your cross and carring it for the Lord.

Using Contraceptions is just taking God out of the Picture and allowing Sin to enter the family.

There is a family that lives across the street from me, they have at least 8 kids from about 6 to 16. They definitly take this cross and carry it, but I hardly ever see the mom or the dad looking tired or burnt out. They arn't rich but they are very happy.

 

[Danyc]

Using Contraceptions is just taking God out of the Picture and allowing Sin to enter the family.

How so?

 

[Calliso]

I agree that St. Augustine was a little extreme in his writtings. You are correct the bible doesn't support complete marrital chastity... That is why the Church has OK'd Natural Family Planning.

Some times I forget who I am typing to sorry about saying trust in God and he will take care of you....

This does not mean stop working lay around on the couch playing games. It means to work and not just follow parts of God's Truth that suit how you feel but to practice the entire Truth. God wants us to Work in we can offer our works up to God. God doesn't want us to sit around watching TV all day. We should be doing our best to care for our families and provide them with what is needed.

If a family has 12 kids and hasn't used fertility drugs and has followed the full truth of God. He will bless them. They may not have lots of money, big screen TV's, new Fast cars and They will suffer for the Lord and keep loving the Lord. Life isn't about avoiding suffering and work. Its about accepting your cross and carring it for the Lord.

Using Contraceptions is just taking God out of the Picture and allowing Sin to enter the family.

There is a family that lives across the street from me, they have at least 8 kids from about 6 to 16. They definitly take this cross and carry it, but I hardly ever see the mom or the dad looking tired or burnt out. They arn't rich but they are very happy.

I see what your saying, but let me point out again that that family is just one example out of many. And while I agree that expensive gadgets and what not are not neccessary what about other things? I mean just recently there was a thread about health care in the United States and just how expensive it can be. A family could easily be living a decent life then all of a sudden someone gets sick or someone gets in an accident and next thing you know they owe thousands of dollars and are behind on bill after bill. And that can happen if a person is on health care! What about those that can;t afford any health care? What about college? I am also pretty sure there are plenty of people out there that didn;t use contraceptives that ended up having lots of kids that aren;t so happy. Basically my point is you can;t use one or two examples and apply them to every single person. I mean yeah some people do fine with families. I know myself and others are not like that though.

 

[funkandwagnalls]

It can be argued that using contraception puts a woman's soul in danger, as it is written that women are saved through childbearing (1 Timothy 2:15).