Contraception

[EnemyPartyII]

Illness is a result, consequence, punishment of the fall, the sin of Adam and Eve, in other words, original sin.

God did not create us all ill and diseased, sin did that.

Medicine heals our afflictions that were not of God but sin. medicine is his mercy on us for our stupid choice to sin.

Is the gift of fertility and children a consequence of sin?
I think not.

Unless you think God did not know fully what he was doing at the time, he on purpose made women fertile at times and infertile at other times, why did he do this?

Why not just respect and obey his design? Why do we think we need to and actually can, improve upon his design?

Seems like you're dodging the question... but I'll put it to you that human life is absolutely incapable of surviving without artificial assistance.

So if you are claiming that God's "design" for humans doesn't need human assistance... might I suggest you spend a week in Africa, naked, eating only what you can catch with your bare hands?

Then get back to me about how God's design of humans doesn't require artificial aids.

 

[Benedicta00]

I think many have been duped into believing artificial contraceptives is "medicine."

 

[EnemyPartyII]

It's not an issue of natural as it is an issue of pursuing virtue.

Except that Benedicta is arguing against contraceptives because he sees them as unnatural... I am pointing out that there are a great many unnatural things he doesn't have a problem with, so how do we ascribe virtue to something based on its nature?

 

[Benedicta00]

I did answer your question specifically and detailed. God did not design our bodies to be sick and diseased. Sin made us that way and drugs and medicine are used to fix what sin did.

God however did make the body fertile, and at others times not fertile. that was no mistake or result of sin.

Do you think God made a mistake and we need to control our own fertility with drugs?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The issue is, God did not create us to be sick and in need of a pacemaker, eye glasses, etc. he made us perfect. It was sin that made us imperfect.

Does a person consider their fertility an imprefection, a result of the fall or a gift of God?

fertility at a time when they do not wish to be fertile, certainly would seem to be seen as an imperfection by many.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I did answer your question specifically and detailed. God did not design our bodies to be sick and diseased. Sin made us that way and drugs and medicine are used to fix what sin did.

God however did make the body fertile, and at others times not fertile. that was no mistake or result of sin.

Do you think God made a mistake and we need to control our own fertility with drugs?

Answer me this... did God make a mistake when he created humans without the means to feed himself without artificial tools?

Theres nothing imperfect about humans having to use a spear to catch dinner is there? Its just a human's way of altering his situation to one that suits him better. Ditto contraceptives.

 

[Benedicta00]

God did not make the body to be sick and diseased so you are presenting a false comparison.

sickness and disease is unnatural, fertility is not.

why do we need to alter the way God made the body? A reason would be nice if you could give one.

 

[Benedicta00]

fertility at a time when they do not wish to be fertile, certainly would seem to be seen as an imperfection by many.

So do you think God screwed up when he made a woman this way?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I did answer your question specifically and detailed. God did not design our bodies to be sick and diseased. Sin made us that way and drugs and medicine are used to fix what sin did.

God however did make the body fertile, and at others times not fertile. that was no mistake or result of sin.

Do you think God made a mistake and we need to control our own fertility with drugs?

God also designed our bodies in such a way that we COULD use artificial contraceptives... surely, if he didn't want us to use them, he could have designed us in such a way that artificial contraception was impossible

 

[EnemyPartyII]

God did not make the body to be sick and diseased so you are presenting a false comparison.

sickness and disease is unnatural, fertility is not.

why do we need to alter the way God made the body? A reason would be nice if you could give one.

Because if we DON'T alter the way God made the body... we would die.

Like I said, humans CAN NOT survive without artificial assistance.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

So do you think God screwed up when he made a woman this way?

Huh? No, where do you get that silly idea?

 

[Theophorus]

Except that Benedicta is arguing against contraceptives because he sees them as unnatural... I am pointing out that there are a great many unnatural things he doesn't have a problem with, so how do we ascribe virtue to something based on its nature?

I do not see that arguement. I see that fertility is not seen as something needing "treatment". That fertility is not a problem from the fall.

That puts the issue into one of ethics and morality.

 

[Benedicta00]

Answer me this... did God make a mistake when he created humans without the means to feed himself without artificial tools?

Theres nothing imperfect about humans having to use a spear to catch dinner is there? Its just a human's way of altering his situation to one that suits him better. Ditto contraceptives.

again, you are referring to what sin did, not how God made us.

God made us fertile at times and infertile at others, why do you think he did it this way?

 

[Benedicta00]

Huh? No, where do you get that silly idea?

from this...

fertility at a time when they do not wish to be fertile, certainly would seem to be seen as an imperfection by many.

again i ask, God made the female this way, do you think he was wrong to make her this way?

 

[IamAdopted]

IAA,

Can we just stick to the question at hand? On who's authority do you have it, that you can form what ever opinion you want about the moral issues that are not talked about in scripture?

And how do you know your opinions are the correct ones if there is no scripture available that can back you up?

And once again by who's authority do you? With no scripture to back up what you say? So this would to me be a matter of Faith. If you have faith that it is sin then to you it is sin. If I have faith that it is not sin then to me it is not sin. For this has no bearing in scripture. There is no scripture to say if it is or is not sin.

 

[Benedicta00]

God also designed our bodies in such a way that we COULD use artificial contraceptives... surely, if he didn't want us to use them, he could have designed us in such a way that artificial contraception was impossible

He also made the body with the ability to smoke crack cocaine if we wish and OD on it. he also made the body able to abort a baby too...

I hope you can see how irrational this is as a response.

How do you justify the invention of artificial contraceptives when God gave us a means for postponing or preventing pregnancy already?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

again, you are referring to what sin did, not how God made us.

God made us fertile at times and infertile at others, why do you think he did it this way?

I'm refering to what sin did? How has the human form changed due to sin please?

God made us fertile at times and infertile at others, why do you think he did it this way?

God made us incapable of providing food for ourselves without artificial aids, why do you think he made us this way?

again i ask, God made the female this way, do you think he was wrong to make her this way?

Oh, there are many issues with the "design" of a human I would take issue with before female fertility cycles (although, maybe if you asked me diring PMS...) but no... I don't think it was a "mistake" in the way you intend... and in the same way that God allows a system to exist where we can enhance our health and hapiness artificially, I see no reason to believe he doesnt want us to regulate our fertility artificialy

 

[EnemyPartyII]

He also made the body with the ability to smoke crack cocaine if we wish and OD on it. he also made the body able to abort a baby too...

I hope you can see how irrational this is as a response.

How do you justify the invention of artificial contraceptives when God gave us a means for postponing or preventing pregnancy already?

God gave us the means to do many things, that we artificially enhance or alter. Why should fertility be different.

So... are you saying God made a mistake when he created the receptor cells that coccaine fit?

 

[Benedicta00]

And once again by who's authority do you? With no scripture to back up what you say? So this would to me be a matter of Faith. If you have faith that it is sin then to you it is sin. If I have faith that it is not sin then to me it is not sin. For this has no bearing in scripture. There is no scripture to say if it is or is not sin.

Fine, you believe you are correct on faith. How do you know you are right though? What is your confirmation? Others say they believe as a matter of faith that God really says abortion is okay too.. see how this presents a huge problem?

We are back to square one, authority and just who has it? Did God give it to all individuals or to His very own Church to teach all individuals what is morally correct and what isn't?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Fine, you believe you are correct on faith. How do you know you are right though? What is your confirmation? Others say they believe as a matter of faith that God really says abortion is okay too.. see how this presents a huge problem?

We are back to square one, authority and just who has it? Did God give it to all individuals or to His very own Church to teach all individuals what is morally correct and what isn't?

God gives each of us a rational mind to make decisions for ourselves.