Contraception

[ArcticFox]

Hi, not on the pill, but if that's the case, your last para, then I think that would be common knowledge, and many Christians take birth control and it would be made common knowledge.

So, what I'm saying is I don't know about your evidence.

blessings,
tapero

Not that uncommon, actually. Many health care professionals are well aware that this is a possibility, that an egg is fertilized and later expelled. In fact, this is included in the description of the effectiveness of the pill!

I hope someone posts some excellent references to this. I personally worked in the health care industry for nearly two years (that of the US). I had many opportunities to talk to professionals, including one pharmacist who was also a pastor (two jobs). Both Christian and non-Christian acknowledge that this is a primary method of preventing birth (hardening of the lining of the uterus that prevents implantation of the fertilized egg).

How often this happens is impossible to tell, but that it does happen is unquestionable; it would be unrealistic to expect that it never happens.

 

[IamAdopted]

Where do we ever see it being used in the bible?

And I do expect to see a biblical citation of it being used in the bible and Jesus saying using it is morally acceptable, least your requirement that everything has to be found in scripture is a contradiction because you can not support your premise that it is okay.

I don't see where abortion is condemned or even mentioned in the bible but yet, we know that is immoral, at least i hope we all know that for we all should know that if we don't.


And Lotar, I was under the impression that the Orthodox do allow for barrier types of BC such as condoms? Am I wrong?

You have a very vague concept of sola Scriptura. Good to see you back. Do you think that we have the revelation of every person in the bibles sex life? You have the human logic of a man by the name of onan that rebelled agaisnt God because He did not do what God told him to do and you say that because of this man that contraception is sin? Amazing to me. You show me where it is written anywhere that says we are not to do this as you call it contraception. I can show in scripture where we are not to withold sex other than for fasting and prayer. As this is the common way you and your church do this. And you call this righteous and not sin.

 

[Theophorus]

Just a note, it is more like a third of a year, not over half.

You don't need to abstain for fish or dairy days, and only from after Vespers on Saturdays when recieving communion.

Also, from what I've been told, so I may be wrong, but the laity isn't actually required to hold to the sex part of the fast, except for preperation for Communion.

So Palm Sunday is OK during Lent? I think fish days are left to the discretion of one's bishop and spiritual father. And certainly some traditions want a week of abstinence before communion. But never the less, it's a lot.

 

[Benedicta00]

You have a very vague concept of sola Scriptura. Good to see you back. Do you think that we have the revelation of every person in the bibles sex life? You have the human logic of a man by the name of onan that rebelled agaisnt God because He did not do what God told him to do and you say that because of this man that contraception is sin? Amazing to me. You show me where it is written anywhere that says we are not to do this as you call it contraception. I can show in scripture where we are not to withold sex other than for fasting and prayer. As this is the common way you and your church do this. And you call this righteous and not sin.

So there is no place in scripture that allows us to take chemicals or use latex in order to change and alter the way God created the human body to work? Thanks, I knew there wasn't any place that gives us license to do this.

Let me ask you something, why does God need us to find away to stifle new life form being created?

Why is not the natural way he made the human body sufficient enough for us to use? Are we not fertile sometimes and not always at other times?

What's so wrong with just using the way he made us and not taking it upon ourselves to change the way he made our bodies to work?

I look forward to your rational/justification for mankind's invention of artificial contraceptives.

 

[Theophorus]

But thats more dependent on not keeping oneself from the other. The stresser is different.

1Cr 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

Peace

Fireinfolding

Yes it is by consent of both. If one is suffering too much temptation, the other should break the fast as and not deprive their spouse.

It's not legalistic.

 

[Theophorus]

And Lotar, I was under the impression that the Orthodox do allow for barrier types of BC such as condoms? Am I wrong?

it certainly isn't in my case. Orthodoxy can be very very conservative concerning married life. But again, it depends on the bishop and spiritual father, priest.

 

[Benedicta00]

it certainly isn't in my case. Orthodoxy can be very very conservative concerning married life. But again, it depends on the bishop and spiritual father, priest.

So do to individual circumstances the priest may allow for it? It's not universally taught as something a couple can freely opt for?

If so, that's sounds close to the use of NFP. A couple is encouraged to opt for it depending on their circumstances and not just as a form of birth control.

 

[Theophorus]

Things the bible does not specifically teach about:

birth control
euthanasia
suicide/assisted suicide
masturbation
stem cell research
sperm banks
cremation
vasectomies

 

[IamAdopted]

So there is no place in scripture that allows us to take chemicals or use latex in order to change and alter the way God created the human body to work? Thanks, I knew there wasn't any place that gives us license to do this.

Let me ask you something, why does God need us to find away to stifle new life form being created?

Why is not the natural way he made the human body sufficient enough for us to use? Are we not fertile sometimes and not always at other times?

What's so wrong with just using the way he made us and not taking it upon ourselves to change the way he made our bodies to work?

I look forward to your rational/justification for mankind's invention of artificial contraceptives.

There is also no scripture prohibiting it either as you say. But there is scripture that says this.
1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1Co 7:2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.
1Co 7:3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.
1Co 7:4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
1Co 7:5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

 

[Theophorus]

So do to individual circumstances the priest may allow for it? It's not universally taught as something a couple can freely opt for?

Birth control, to my knowledge, is not taught as an option. It is a dispensation.

For example, a convert married to a non Orthodox might receive some economia for the sake of the marriage.

 

[Benedicta00]

Things the bible does not specifically teach about:

birth control
euthanasia
suicide/assisted suicide
masturbation
stem cell research
sperm banks
cremation
vasectomies

and because they are not specifically mentioned in the bible some non Catholic non Orthodox Christians believe they can form what ever opinion they wish about them.

However, one must ask, how do they justify forming their own opinion about moral issues that the bible does not speak about?

The age old question arises once again, on who's authority do they speak?

 

[Benedicta00]

Birth control, to my knowledge, is not taught as an option. It is a dispensation.

For example, a convert married to a non Orthodox might receive some economia for the sake of the marriage.

got ya. thanks.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Things the bible does not specifically teach about:

birth control
euthanasia
suicide/assisted suicide
masturbation
stem cell research
sperm banks
cremation
vasectomies

Notably... none of the listed activities above should be attempted at the same time

 

[Benedicta00]

IAA,

I'll repeat my question again, what is the justification for inventing artificial contraceptives when God made a female naturally infertile?

Why on earth would God need us to alter the way he made the human body to work?

It seems to me if it is not good to have more children or any at all, then why not just abstain when the female is not fertile? Isn't this how God made her? Did he make a mistake that we, his creation had to rectify with artificial contraceptives?

Again, what was our need for inventing artificial means we call contraceptives when God himself gave us a means for preventing or post phoning pregnancy?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Why on earth would God need us to alter the way he made the human body to work?

I don't know. However, reading glasses, antibiotics, winter clothes, caffein, alcohol, anti-depressants, pace makers and chemotherapy all alter the way the God made human body works... I see no reason that contraceptives belong off in a category by themselves when considering artificial creations that humans use...

If contraceptives are wrong for being unnatural... is a pacemaker? And if not, why not?

 

[IamAdopted]

and because they are not specifically mentioned in the bible some non Catholic non Orthodox Christians believe they can form what ever opinion they wish about them.

However, one must ask, how do they justify forming their own opinion about moral issues that the bible does not speak about?

The age old question arises once again, on who's authority do they speak?

old age question for those who want to shift blame to some who see no wrong in contraception because it is not mentioned in the scripture but yet go against scripture calling this just and righteous. So here we go again. Round and round. By whos Authority do you say using contracteption is a sin? For those who believe this get this outside of scripture and not from with in.

 

[Benedicta00]

I don't know. However, reading glasses, antibiotics, winter clothes, caffein, alcohol, anti-depressants, pace makers and chemotherapy all alter the way the God made human body works... I see no reason that contraceptives belong off in a category by themselves when considering artificial creations that humans use...

If contraceptives are wrong for being unnatural... is a pacemaker? And if not, why not?

Illness is a result, consequence, punishment of the fall, the sin of Adam and Eve, in other words, original sin.

God did not create us all ill and diseased, sin did that.

Medicine heals our afflictions that were not of God but sin. medicine is his mercy on us for our stupid choice to sin.

Is the gift of fertility and children a consequence of sin?
I think not.

Unless you think God did not know fully what he was doing at the time, he on purpose made women fertile at times and infertile at other times, why did he do this?

Why not just respect and obey his design? Why do we think we need to and actually can, improve upon his design?

 

[Benedicta00]

old age question for those who want to shift blame to some who see no wrong in contraception because it is not mentioned in the scripture but yet go against scripture calling this just and righteous. So here we go again. Round and round. By whos Authority do you say using contracteption is a sin? For those who believe this get this outside of scripture and not from with in.

IAA,

Can we just stick to the question at hand? On who's authority do you have it, that you can form what ever opinion you want about the moral issues that are not talked about in scripture?

And how do you know your opinions are the correct ones if there is no scripture available that can back you up?

 

[Theophorus]

If contraceptives are wrong for being unnatural... is a pacemaker? And if not, why not?

It's not an issue of natural as it is an issue of pursuing virtue.

 

[Benedicta00]

The issue is, God did not create us to be sick and in need of a pacemaker, eye glasses, etc. he made us perfect. It was sin that made us imperfect.

Does a person consider their fertility an imprefection, a result of the fall or a gift of God?