Continuing research into the possibility of the reality of the Exodus, and current data/conclusions.

[2PhiloVoid]

As you point out, there are a number of them, all of which support Christian Doctrine satisfactorily despite their differences. I was educated in Catholic schools, though I am not myself a Catholic, so I tend to favor theirs, but I find no really important differences from the views of other Traditional Christians.

ok. I can understand your view from a certain frame of experience and education, and I suppose it is one reason why you identify now with some "other religion."

I think we both realize that a shallow form of fundamentalism isn't very compelling where Christianity is concerned.

 

[AV1611VET]

Personally speaking, I don't really care about my beliefs .. they're a dime-a-dozen (ie: they're practically value-less to me).
That they may be of value to you, defeats my quest to distinguish my own and then neutralise them as best I can.
Why would I share them if that would undermine my own personal quest?
Interesting.

You don't seem to care for labels.

Does that include "scientist"?

I'm going to guess and say NO.

They're exempt.

Am I right?

 

[AV1611VET]

As you point out, there are a number of them, all of which support Christian Doctrine satisfactorily despite their differences. I was educated in Catholic schools, though I am not myself a Catholic, so I tend to favor theirs, but I find no really important differences from the views of other Traditional Christians.

We make a distinction between "Christiandom" and "Christianity".

 

[SelfSim]

You don't seem to care for labels.

Does that include "scientist"?

I'm going to guess and say NO.

They're exempt.

Am I right?

Oh .. go away with your silly word-games, please.

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh .. go away with your silly word-games, please.

Mr Touché scores again!

 

[SelfSim]

Mr Touché scores again!

Dream onwards .. reality doesn't care about your dreams.

 

[BCP1928]

ok. I can understand your view from a certain frame of experience and education, and I suppose it is one reason why you identify now with some "other religion."

Quite right. It doesn't hurt me if my religious beliefs are insulted, but there is no reason my religious denomination should suffer insult by association.

I think we both realize that a shallow form of fundamentalism isn't very compelling where Christianity is concerned.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Quite right. It doesn't hurt me if my religious beliefs are insulted, but there is no reason my religious denomination should suffer insult by association.

Personally, I don't seek to defend, nor strictly associate myself, with any one Christian denomination. At the same time, I think I'm fairly safe from 99% of the criticisms that might be lobbed my way in insisting that my own view on the Christian faith is somehow.....................deficient. I know where my epistemological limits and boundaries are, and I'm cautious so as to avoid doing too much epistemological trespassing.

However, I'm not sure that all that many other Christians (or Skeptics/Atheists) are as aware as they should be of the limits of their own respective religious views or, otherwise, their worldviews.

I await challengers.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Personally, I don't seek to defend, nor strictly associate myself, with any one Christian denomination. At the same time, I think I'm fairly safe from 99% of the criticisms that might be lobbed my way in insisting that my own view on the Christian faith is somehow.....................deficient. I know where my epistemological limits and boundaries are, and I'm cautious so as to avoid doing too much epistemological trespassing.

However, I'm not sure that all that many other Christians (or Skeptics/Atheists) are as aware as they should be of the limits of their own respective religious views or, otherwise, their worldviews.

Wrong forum.

I await challengers.

This thread is about the evidence of the Moses exodus, not denominational correctness or philosophy.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Wrong forum.


This thread is about the evidence of the Moses exodus, not denominational correctness or philosophy.

Yes, I know, Hans. There really ISN'T a space here on CF for apologetics or philosophy.

And, what's more, this thread is still sitting slip-shod in the incorrect CF niche. We both know that. Of course, there's a lot that gets said anyway.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Yes, I know, Hans. There really ISN'T a space here on CF for apologetics or philosophy.

And, what's more, this thread is still sitting slip-shod in the incorrect CF niche. We both know that. Of course, there's a lot that gets said anyway.

Archeology is a science and this thread branched off another P&LS thread. (Oh, look there is a thread about Egypt on a History sub-forum. Let's see if that is any good...)

There is always room to debate philosophy in "MS Notes".

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Archeology is a science and this thread branched off another P&LS thread. (Oh, look there is a thread about Egypt on a History sub-forum. Let's see if that is any good...)

Yes, Archaeology is a social science, although the exact qualities of that field have been debated.

Yeah. There's "a thread" about Egypt on a History sub-forum, where it more or less belongs. And don't worry, I already know that there is no clear evidence of the Exodus or of the presence of Moses in non-biblical historical records.

So, the Minimalists echo-chambers can save themselves some time from showing up and attempting to educate me on the lowdown of everything from Finkelstein to Dever and everywhere in between, or outside, thereof.

There is always room to debate philosophy in "MS Notes".

MS Notes? That sounds like a conceptual ghetto.

 

[BCP1928]

Once upon a time a man visited a paleontology museum. He was looking at a fossil and asked a museum guard standing nearby,
"Do you know how old this fossil is?"
The guard said'
"Yes sir, I happen to know exactly how old this fossil is. It is five million twenty four years, eighty nine days and six hours old."
"Impossible" said the man, "you can't possibly know the age of a fossil that exactly."
"Oh but I can" said the guard. "The first day I came to work here I asked Prof. Smithers who was still alive then and was the man who had dug up the fossil, I asked him how old it was and he told me five million years. And I have worked here twenty four years, eighty nine days and (looking at watch) six hours and five minutes.
"What absolute hogwash" said the man.
"Now sir," said the guard, "You don't want to be calling such a fine scientific gentlemen as Prof. Smithers a LIAR!"

 

[Hans Blaster]

MS Notes? That sounds like a conceptual ghetto.

And I don't even have it installed.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Once upon a time a man visited a paleontology museum. He was looking at a fossil and asked a museum guard standing nearby,
"Do you know how old this fossil is?"
The guard said'
"Yes sir, I happen to know exactly how old this fossil is. It is five million twenty four years, eighty nine days and six hours old."
"Impossible" said the man, "you can't possibly know the age of a fossil that exactly."
"Oh but I can" said the guard. "The first day I came to work here I asked Prof. Smithers who was still alive then and was the man who had dug up the fossil, I asked him how old it was and he told me five million years. And I have worked here twenty four years, eighty nine days and (looking at watch) six hours and five minutes.
"What absolute hogwash" said the man.
"Now sir," said the guard, "You don't want to be calling such a fine scientific gentlemen as Prof. Smithers a LIAR!"

A joke that precise is always welcome.

 

[Neogaia777]

No, it's clear you are just being passive-aggressive and it is really offensive. Your ostensible assumption is, that if he doesn't agree with your beliefs about the literal historicity of the Exodus account that his faith must somehow be marginal or eccentric for a Christian. But you've been around here enough to know that assumption is false.

I don't at all require him to believe exactly the way I believe, or all that I believe in order to be a Christian, or in order to be saved and be on his way to heaven when he dies, and neither does God, so your totally wrong about me, and about that.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

I don't at all require him to believe exactly the way I believe, or all that I believe in order to be a Christian, or in order to be saved and be on his way to heaven when he dies, and neither does God, so your totally wrong about me, and about that.

God Bless.

If you want to live in a kind of heaven beyond this when you die, you must first believe in the possibility of it first, and that it is possible such a place exists, etc. And next, you have to believe in the possibility that Jesus went there, and is maybe still alive now, and is listening to all of us right now, and is fully able to be hearing all of us each individually right now, etc.

And then next, you have to try and talk to him while being 100% honest with both yourself and him as you are talking to him, or when you do talk to or with him, etc. And when you do, be 100% honest about your unbelief, and what you are having trouble believing in, and maybe perhaps why, etc, maybe saying or adding things like "if you are really there" or "if any of this is real or true" or "if any of this is not just really stupid, or is not just really foolish, or is not just really stupid or foolish or is in vain right now", etc. Just be 100% honest with him, etc, because that is all of what he is really looking for the most anyway, etc. And let whatever is within you lead as you are doing it, etc, and just be honest, etc.

Next would be the issue of sin, etc. And with sin, no matter how much you believe or don't believe in it or not, just ask for forgiveness of the sins that you already know or feel are sins against your own conscience that you can know or feel sometimes as you are doing them/it, etc, and ask him to forgive you for that, or all of those things, etc.

And then after all of that, finish or close your talking to him, or your prayer with him, and then just go about your daily life as you normally would after that, and see if you notice anything different, or that might be changing, etc. And if nothing seems to be any different, or nothing is seeming to be changing, then just try this with him again from time to time until you maybe do start to notice some things changing, etc, and this will be a very good start for any of you, etc.

Oh, and ask him if he would please help you with your unbelief, and would let you into heaven when you die, etc, with maybe adding 'if any of this is any way real of true", etc, and ask him for his help for you in confirming or being able to believe that sometime before you die, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Hans Blaster]

If you want to live in a kind of heaven beyond this when you die, you must first believe in the possibility of it first, and that it is possible such a place exists, etc.

Well there goes that possibility. I don't have any desire to believe in your god either.

And next, you have to believe in the possibility that Jesus went there, and is maybe still alive now, and is listening to all of us right now, and is fully able to be hearing all of us each individually right now, etc.

And then next, you have to try and talk to him while being 100% honest with both yourself and him as you are talking to him, or when you do talk to or with him, etc. And when you do, be 100% honest about your unbelief, and what you are having trouble believing in, and maybe perhaps why, etc, maybe saying or adding things like "if you are really there" or "if any of this is real or true" or "if any of this is not just really stupid, or is not just really foolish, or is not just really stupid or foolish or is in vain right now", etc. Just be 100% honest with him, etc, because that is all of what he is really looking for the most anyway, etc. And let whatever is within you lead as you are doing it, etc, and just be honest, etc.

Next would be the issue of sin, etc. And with sin, no matter how much you believe or don't believe in it or not, just ask for forgiveness of the sins that you already know or feel are sins against your own conscience that you can know or feel sometimes as you are doing them/it, etc, and ask him to forgive you for that, or all of those things, etc.

And then after all of that, finish or close your talking to him, or your prayer with him, and then just go about your daily life as you normally would after that, and see if you notice anything different, or that might be changing, etc. And if nothing seems to be any different, or nothing is seeming to be changing, then just try this with him again from time to time until you maybe do start to notice some things changing, etc, and this will be a very good start for any of you, etc.

Oh, and ask him if he would please help you with your unbelief, and would let you into heaven when you die, etc, with maybe adding 'if any of this is any way real of true", etc, and ask him for his help for you in confirming or being able to believe that sometime before you die, etc.

God Bless.

None of this has anything to do with the topic of this thread.

 

[Neogaia777]

If you want to live in a kind of heaven beyond this when you die, you must first believe in the possibility of it first, and that it is possible such a place exists, etc. And next, you have to believe in the possibility that Jesus went there, and is maybe still alive now, and is listening to all of us right now, and is fully able to be hearing all of us each individually right now, etc.

And then next, you have to try and talk to him while being 100% honest with both yourself and him as you are talking to him, or when you do talk to or with him, etc. And when you do, be 100% honest about your unbelief, and what you are having trouble believing in, and maybe perhaps why, etc, maybe saying or adding things like "if you are really there" or "if any of this is real or true" or "if any of this is not just really stupid, or is not just really foolish, or is not just really stupid or foolish or is in vain right now", etc. Just be 100% honest with him, etc, because that is all of what he is really looking for the most anyway, etc. And let whatever is within you lead as you are doing it, etc, and just be honest, etc.

Next would be the issue of sin, etc. And with sin, no matter how much you believe or don't believe in it or not, just ask for forgiveness of the sins that you already know or feel are sins against your own conscience that you can know or feel sometimes as you are doing them/it, etc, and ask him to forgive you for that, or all of those things, etc.

And then after all of that, finish or close your talking to him, or your prayer with him, and then just go about your daily life as you normally would after that, and see if you notice anything different, or that might be changing, etc. And if nothing seems to be any different, or nothing is seeming to be changing, then just try this with him again from time to time until you maybe do start to notice some things changing, etc, and this will be a very good start for any of you, etc.

Oh, and ask him if he would please help you with your unbelief, and would let you into heaven when you die, etc, with maybe adding 'if any of this is any way real of true", etc, and ask him for his help for you in confirming or being able to believe that sometime before you die, etc.

God Bless.

Most of these things that we are arguing about here on these forums are not salvation issues for the most part, etc, but what matters most, especially for the one who might not believe right now, etc, is being open to the possibility of a heaven that people can go to when they die, and the possibility of a Jesus who is listening, and is still alive, and can always, always hear you until you die, etc, and your keeping a 100% honest and open line of communication open with him until you die, and your looking for any kind of changes after that until you die, and your asking him for forgiveness of the sins that are against your own conscience until you die, etc, and asking him if he could maybe get you into that heaven when you do die, etc, and all of these things would be a very good start, or very good beginning for you to have with him until you die, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

Well there goes that possibility. I don't have any desire to believe in your god either.

And that's completely up to you.

God Bless.