Continuing research into the possibility of the reality of the Exodus, and current data/conclusions.

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Neogaia777

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:sigh:

I guess I'm not going to get an honest answer from you, so I'm dropping this right here and now.
I have faith in the way that God made me, and that He made me to be one of the somewhat good ones, who hates hurting others, etc.

Other than that, I don't know exactly what you are trying to get at here, etc?

I'm not going to go and shoot a bunch of people if that's what you mean, etc. I know my God doesn't have that in store for me, etc.

I mostly blame society for those kinds of things, especially in the young, etc, but I also know that that is the way it is supposed to be right now also, etc.

Other than that or those, I don't know what it is you are trying to get at here?

I don't blame others for the way God made them, even if it's bad, etc, but I just also know that means they won't be one of the ones getting to go beyond this here, etc.

Hope that answers your questions.

God Bless.
 
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Neogaia777

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@AV1611VET

If you know God, and you know that He drew or is drawing you to know Him or love Him, etc, then you can also have faith in Him that His plans for you are good, and that He's not going to cause you to be a very bad one, respectively, etc.

God Bless.
 
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Neogaia777

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@AV1611VET

If you know God, and you know that He drew or is drawing you to know Him or love Him, etc, then you can also have faith in Him that His plans for you are good, and that He's not going to cause you to be a very bad one, respectively, etc.

God Bless.
@AV1611VET

God doesn't predestine very bad ones to know Him, or to love Him, etc. So, if you do know that, or you do have that, and you know that He allowed you have that, then you also know He's not going to have already made you to be a very bad one respectively, etc.

God Bless.
 
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Hans Blaster

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If this higher God than God in the OT as proposed by Jesus is real or true or is actual, etc, and if He has always known all, which means He would have already chosen how every being, and everything should and will always happen/go, etc, but and/or anyway, if any or all of this is actually true, etc, then all of us are just programs, running an already foreordained/pre-chosen program, etc, and the purpose for that being, in harvesting some to be with Him when their individual programs is finshed and/or comes to an end, etc. And the criteria for those ones would be only those who have suffered very, very uniquely, or in a very unique way, etc. And all of the others, their programs only exist to cause and/or create this reality in which those others would suffer before going on into being with Him, etc, and that is the only reason for any of this reason's existence, etc. And when those other ones programs are done fully running, or have fully come to an end, then they just sleep or cease to exist for a time until after fully harvesting the others, or the ones getting to go beyond this to be with Him, etc. But when that/this is all entirely done or is all entirely finished, etc, then the ones who were not ever chosen to go beyond this, just sleep or cease to exist or be conscious for a time, until their program is re-needed again in another world/reality/creation/earth that will come after this again after this, etc, when they will all re-run their program all over again after this, but are not ever aware of doing this over and over again every single time after this, etc. While the harvesting is always going/happening each time for the ones that He already has already predestined/pre-chosen already each time to get go beyond this, etc. And that is the whole reason for this's existence, etc. To harvest or take some, while having the others always just have to always repeat this over and over again, but that are not aware of this each time, or that they are always just doing this all over, each time over and over and over again, for nigh eternity, etc. Or to put it another way, they always just are, and forever have been, just only a part of the simulation that never gets to go beyond this ever, etc.

Could you stick to the topic please. Evidence for Exodus. It is not about Jesus or theology.
 
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Neogaia777

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I'm only going to post this here because after considering the possible evidence against the exodus, and it maybe not being literal again, it has caused me to rethink all the other things that might still be literal, but has caused me to consider some of my other much more non-literal interpretations again, etc.

Here goes...

Abandoning some of my previous theories about Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden for a bit, and thinking along new lines, etc, but they are actually ones that I have had on the back burner for a little while, etc, it could be that Adam was actually Jesus Christ, and that the Garden was actually Heaven before Satan (the serpent animal) rebelled, and they all fell, and were kicked out, and kept out from there, down to some of the realms below Heaven, so that Heaven, and all the Angels (animals) that didn't rebel, wouldn't become corrupted by sin, etc. Or they went from the highest realm above, down to another realm that was below that one, but was still intermediate to the realm we now live and exist in on earth now, so that there are three realities, or three realms, etc, but this intermediate one was still now below Heaven, and was confined to this earth, but was a (spirit) realm on the other side of this one that we all (all of the rest of us) now exist in on earth, etc, and the story between Adam (Christ) and Eve (His Bride) after being kicked out of Heaven (along with the serpent animal/spirit creature, and all of the other animals/spirit creatures who followed him or went with the Spirit creature (Satan)) Anyway, the story of Adam and Eve after being kicked out of Heaven, but before the Flood, etc, could be all about what happened in that intermediate realm during that time, etc, but after the Flood, and the "Ark" etc, could be about those eight souls being transfered to this realm after that, or could have just been a story about them being preserved as the only surviving spirit beings in that intermediate realm that were left over after that, etc, because even after Noah and the "Ark", it soon all become very corrupt and wicked again after that because they still had sin, etc, so it could still be the intermediate realm of spirit beings after that, and all of Genesis could be all about what happened there in that place maybe? But only with using pictures and descriptions, and depictions and names, that we would all readily understand here, or would at least be capable of understanding here, etc. But it could have been all about there, etc.

Then we get to Moses, which is where I think we enter into here, but I'm not sure as to how much truth Moses was telling us about the exodus, the ten plagues, being slaves in Egypt, and all of that, etc. I also don't know how Moses, or maybe some of his followers after him, acquired these tales, or compiled the book of Genesis after, etc. It seems a pretty fantastical tale to just be able to just make-up, etc, so maybe there were some actual documentation of it somewhere, etc. Ok, I don't have it all figured out, or have all the answers yet, but I don't claim to yet, so let me just tell you what I think I might maybe know about it so far, yet, etc.

Why do I think there could be three realms, or an intermediate spirit realm between Heaven and earth, or this one that we right now reside in, etc? Or why do I think Adam was Jesus Christ, and the Garden of Eden was The Highest Heaven, and that the animals in it were Angels, or Spirit-Beings, etc?

Well Adam was already like God, and I don't think he was tricked or decieved by the serpents lie, but that he ate the fruit with Eve when she brought it to him for "other reasons" that I'm not going to yet get into here, etc. But Adam was the first God-Man essentially, which is why I think he is/was the pre-incarnate Christ, or that they are one in the same person, etc, and Jesus called himself the first and the last, and the last Adam also, etc, and he was also in the beginning with the Highest God in the Highest Paradise/Heaven in the beginning also, and he was also made the Word of God in that Heaven, etc, because he got to name all the animals/angels which was a way of defining them and giving them their proper dwelling place originally, or before the fall, etc. The animals were the angels, that were also all in subjection to him originally, and were not aggressive and did not eat flesh, or try to devour or attack other animals or him originally, but were all at perfect peace with him, and the other animals, and other creatures originally, etc. This defined what the angels/animals were originally, since they were named in a perfect Heavenly language, that perfectly defined them, and told you everything you needed to know about what they were, etc, the closest comparison we have in our language is according to all of their behaviors or full personalities, or what they were, etc. But this changed with the ones who sought to join the serpent in tricking Eve and betraying Adam because of jealousy, and after God kicked them all out of the Highest Heaven, those beings started from that point onward to become something else entirely, etc, but it was now in the intermediate realm between here and the Highest Heaven now, etc, which was confined/sealed off/cut off to this earth after that only, etc, and the story after being kicked out of the Highest Heaven, until the Ark and the Flood, etc, was about what was happening/going on in that intermediate realm between there and then, etc.

Jesus, when he died and was resurrected, and did ascend, etc, went to that Highest Heaven again when he did ascend, etc. But before he ascended, he showed us a manifestation of the kind of life/beings that existed between this realm and there before he ascended, etc, but went back to the Highest Heaven or the Highest realm after that, etc, but with the promise to return to one day cleanse both lower realms of all sin, and to join them and rule them for one final "day" before taking us all up to the Highest Heaven again after that "day" again, when this both of those other realms will come to an end, etc. And for those who make it after that, to be with the Highest God in Heaven forever after that again, etc.

Anyway this post is getting long, so I'm going to stop there for now, but may add more to it later on again.

Because there is so very much more to consider with this particular possible interpretation, or that needs to be explained, if we are to think along these lines, and/or consider them, and/or that needs to be explained, etc.

God Bless.
 
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Hans Blaster

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The on-topic material...
Then we get to Moses, which is where I think we enter into here, but I'm not sure as to how much truth Moses was telling us about the exodus, the ten plagues, being slaves in Egypt, and all of that, etc. I also don't know how Moses, or maybe some of his followers after him, acquired these tales, or compiled the book of Genesis after, etc. It seems a pretty fantastical tale to just be able to just make-up, etc, so maybe there were some actual documentation of it somewhere, etc. Ok, I don't have it all figured out, or have all the answers yet, but I don't claim to yet, so let me just tell you what I think I might maybe know about it so far, yet, etc.
If you don't know how much truth there is or how it got written down what kind of evidence do you think there is (see OP)?
 
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Neogaia777

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The on-topic material...

If you don't know how much truth there is or how it got written down what kind of evidence do you think there is (see OP)?
If your talking about the exodus, I'm still looking into that part of it, and it might take me a little while, but I have conceded, or have backed off from that part of it for now until I do.

Until then I wanted to just mention a possible non-literal interpretation of Genesis for now, etc.

God Bless.
 
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Neogaia777

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The on-topic material...

If you don't know how much truth there is or how it got written down what kind of evidence do you think there is (see OP)?
I think the oldest copies/scrolls we have of the OT right now are the dead sea scrolls right now, that I think are a hundred years or two before Christ I think? But to the OT's credit, since then at least, we're not changed very much at all from what we had previously, etc, but who really knows if you're just going to go by the evidence only before that, etc.

God Bless.
 
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AV1611VET

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... it could be that Adam was actually Jesus Christ,

Jesus wasn't created.

He was begotten.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And if Jesus was indeed Adam, then Jesus needs someone to die for His sins as well.

The fact is though, Jesus never once sinned.

2 Corinithians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
 
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Neogaia777

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Jesus wasn't created.

He was begotten.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And if Jesus was indeed Adam, then Jesus needs someone to die for His sins as well.

The fact is though, Jesus never once sinned.

2 Corinithians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
I think you need to look into some of the definitions of "begotten", etc.

Jesus called himself the first and the last, and the firstborn of all creation, but that still implies a beginning or end, etc, but just before and after everything else that has a beginning or end, etc.

I think you need to look into it more, etc.

Adam didn't really sin until he felt sorry for and submitted to his wife Eve, which was something Jesus rectified and didn't ever do (again?) while he was here as the second and last Adam, after the first Adam and Eve, etc.

Adam wasn't decieved either, but only "sinned" because of his love for his wife Eve, after he saw that she was already going to be condemned having already fell for the serpents deception without him present, etc, by "touching" it first, which was something Adam had told Eve, but was not exactly what God had told Adam, etc, so he chose to be condemned with her because of his Love for his wife Eve, etc. Now you want to call that a "sin" then go right ahead, but I don't know what to call it honestly, since Adam was not tricked by the serpent, and only chose to "sin" out of his love for his wife Eve, etc.

It's kind of like a Romeo and Juliet story, etc.

Only Juliet was decieved, etc.

Kind of anyway.

God Bless.
 
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Hans Blaster

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If your talking about the exodus, I'm still looking into that part of it, and it might take me a little while, but I have conceded, or have backed off from that part of it for now until I do.
We can wait. You don't need to fill the gap with unrelated content.
Until then I wanted to just mention a possible non-literal interpretation of Genesis for now, etc.

God Bless.
Is that what it was? I couldn't tell (Also the exodus is not in Genesis.)
 
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Neogaia777

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We can wait. You don't need to fill the gap with unrelated content.

Is that what it was? I couldn't tell (Also the exodus is not in Genesis.)
Fair enough. I'll try not to derail the thread further after this, ok.

If I can resist the temptation not to reply any further to @AV1611VET, that is, etc.

God Bless.
 
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AV1611VET

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Jesus called himself the first and the last, and the firstborn of all creation, but that still implies a beginning or end, etc, but just before and after everything else that has a beginning or end, etc.

Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Sound familiar?
 
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Neogaia777

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Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Sound familiar?
Revelation 22:13, etc, and I think words spoken directly to John from an Angel or Jesus Christ Himself carries a lot more weight than Paul, etc.

And Paul also will contradict himself sometimes in referring to Jesus as being the first of last sometimes as something as well, etc.

See, I can play this game too.

Thing is, when the Bible contradicts itself, we either have to see who's speaking, and which carries more authority, and decide acgordingly, or were left to consider both possibilities or interpretations, etc, but where only one can be true if it directly contradicts, etc, as it does here, etc.

Anyway, I'm not going to derail this thread any further by playing "who can cherry pick the greater scripture with you", ok @AV1611VET.

But Revelation 22:13 clearly carries more authority, etc.

And I know there are a lot of other scriptures about this that are either for or against this point as well, etc, but that's the difference between me and you @AV1611VET, and I'm not going to play this game with you, ok @AV1611VET, because we could be talking about scripture contradictions all day, or possibly even into eternity, etc.

But I take Jesus or God's words as having more authority than anybody else's, etc, and in that case, I think there is a lot more for my position, than there ever is against, etc.

God Bless.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Fair enough. I'll try not to derail the thread further after this, ok.

If I can resist the temptation not to reply any further to @AV1611VET, that is, etc.
If you can't by yourself, click on his user name, then the "other options" and it's right at the bottom.
 
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Neogaia777

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@Neogaia777 put him on ignore as I have finally done.
I've had enough of his idiotic drivel and how he goes out of his way to derail any thread involving science.
I might, but think I also I might just wait for a little bit first, etc.

Good to know I have that option though, so thanks for that, etc.

Take Care/God Bless.
 
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Halbhh

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We have a quite different interpretation of @Halbhh's position. I read it as "The Exodus story is not an accounting of real events, but a parable explaining important developments in the spiritual life of the Hebrews." We cannot both be correct (perhaps neither of us are). I hope @Halbhh will let us know. (My money is on you, and yet . . . . )
It's definitely a parable. There are both stories that are purely parable, and also some accounts of events that are also parables.

Really every story in the Old Testament is a parable, only in the text because it helps us learn something about human nature and so on.

For this story though, there's no way to determine by physical evidence whether or not the actual account in the text is purely parable or instead includes some real events!

Why can't we find out by physical evidence?

According to the actual account in the text, their shoes and clothing did not wear out in 40 years -- ergo, nothing would wear out....

Therefore, so far as the text is concerned, the story indicates no items would be discarded for us to be able to find or expect to find later.

Also in the text, typically they would have no time to find secure places to bury their dead, so that means the bodies would be left on the surface or buried very shallow and fast, for scavengers to find...

Ergo, nothing would remain to be found later.

So, since there is no physical sciences aspect to this story in the text at all, it doesn't belong in the physical sciences forum at all.
 
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