Consider This Article

[pitabread]

A Critique of 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution

Have you ever read it?

Because one thing I noticed the author did (like many creationists) when faced with explaining the genetic evidence, they basically resort to apologizing for the way the genetic evidence appears.

IOW, it's not so much a critique against evolution and the evidence for common descent, but rather a treatise on "well, I guess God just made stuff like that". Ergo if life was designed, it was designed with the appearance of being evolved.

 

[AV1611VET]

Have you ever read it?

No.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Besides the whole ND endeavour makes a mockery of reason itself

13 June 2018 Anguspure: Shoots himself in the foot with a a philosopher lecturing that evolution "makes a mockery of reason itself".
That philosopher is also destroying ID. ID proponents claim it is as scientific as evolution!

 

[RealityCheck01]

The transition from a pre-biotic soup to a soup that contained a living thing took millions of years?....

A reply to
11 June 2018 Anguspure: Abiogenesis ignorance.
which is
13 June 2018 Anguspure: Bits of ignorance about abiogenesis.
Abiogenesis is the chemistry and physics processes that took pre-biotic conditions to biotic conditions.

13 June 2018 Anguspure: A probable lie that abiogenesis has been falsified and shown to be false daily (sources?).

13 June 2018 Anguspure: A probable lie that ID explains common descent (sources?).

 

[RealityCheck01]

Clearly the bioligists that believe this have not considered thier own work.

Turns a question into a fact by not providing scientific sources .
11 June 2018 Anguspure: Parrots a "biological diversity cannot occur in 3.8 billion years" Behe delusion

Clear ignorance because an example of speciation in a decades old experiment is not biological diversity occurring over 3.8 billion years !
E. coli Long-term Experimental Evolution Project Site

13 June 2018 Anguspure: A lying "A specific example of this happening is......???" question.
The E. coli Long-term Experimental Evolution Project Site he cite has a specific example of a new species of E coli happening though changes in DNA.

13 June 2018 Anguspure: A lie that the concepts in modern evolution make it "only more implausible".

P.S. A New Bird Species Has Evolved on Galapagos And Scientists Watched It Happen

 

[pitabread]

No.

Exactly.

 

[Anguspure]

Replies to
11 June 2018 Anguspure: A lie that evolution explains nothing when it explains a lot.
with
13 June 2018 Anguspure: A "an unintelligent framework says nothing" lie about evolution and its evidence.
I like to Evolution and 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution.

All that article does is pin evidence to the ND framework.
I suppose it does say something....something about how if you torture the facts enough you can make them say anything.

 

[Anguspure]

Turns a question into a fact by not providing scientific sources .
11 June 2018 Anguspure: Parrots a "biological diversity cannot occur in 3.8 billion years" Behe delusion

Clear ignorance because an example of speciation in a decades old experiment is not biological diversity occurring over 3.8 billion years !
E. coli Long-term Experimental Evolution Project Site

http://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/
As an evolutionist you should know that years count for nothing in evolution. What does count is generations. That is why the project celebrated generations (50 000 of them).

How long would it take for other forms to amass this many generations?
HIV and Malaria multiply even more quickly, millions of generations, and speciate within kind millions of times daily, to meet the prevailing environment. Yet precious little in terms of significant molecular evolution has ever been observed.

13 June 2018 Anguspure: A lying "A specific example of this happening is......???" question.
The E. coli Long-term Experimental Evolution Project Site he cite has a specific example of a new species of E coli happening though changes in DNA.

Extrapolation from speciation within kind to the development of a new kind of thing maybe a cornerstone of ND theory but it is a complete fantasy in the real world.

13 June 2018 Anguspure: A lie that the concepts in modern evolution make it "only more implausible".

P.S. A New Bird Species Has Evolved on Galapagos And Scientists Watched It Happen

Zombie Alert!!!

Peter and Rosemary Grant are the Princeton pair who have spent their careers on the Galápagos Islands trying to tease out the slightest bits of evidence to support the iconic myth of Darwin’s finches. Having received the Royal Medal in Biology last summer, they’re at it again. That is despite having been soundly refuted by Jonathan Wells in his book Zombie Science. Now that the Grants are passing the baton to younger researchers, we will undoubtedly be treated to more parades of this zombie icon.

In “Rapid hybrid speciation in Darwin’s finches” in the journal Science, four other lead authors, accompanied by the Grants, try to sanctify neo-Darwinism with a melodrama about three “species” of finches that can all interbreed. Mind you, they are all finches. They are all Galápagos finches. They are all family.

Any differences among the groups are tiny changes in beak size and shape, and changes in the songs one group sings. Science Daily has a cartoon version of the story, complete with a lineage called “Big Bird”:

The arrival 36 years ago of a strange bird to a remote island in the Galapagos archipelago has provided direct genetic evidence of a novel way in which new species arise.

In this week’s issue of the journal Science, researchers from Princeton University and Uppsala University in Sweden report that the newcomer belonging to one species mated with a member of another species resident on the island, giving rise to a new species that today consists of roughly 30 individuals.

The study comes from work conducted on Darwin’s finches, which live on the Galapagos Islands in the Pacific Ocean. The remote location has enabled researchers to study the evolution of biodiversity due to natural selection. [Emphasis added.]

The first question is obvious: If they can interbreed, how can they be called different species? Darwin’s book was about the Origin of Species, not the origin of varieties. As Wells points out, “If they continue to breed and exchange genes, they are usually regarded as varieties of the same species, even if they are morphologically different (as is the case with dog breeds)” (Zombie Science, p. 68).
https://evolutionnews.org/2017/12/zombie-watch-debunked-finches-re-emerge-to-validate-darwin/

Against the backdrop of research of Princeton’s Peter and Rosemary Grant, Darwin’s finches are among the most hyped illustrations of evolution in action. The problem is that they illustrate only the most micro- of micro-evolution.
https://evolutionnews.org/2018/01/big-bird-evolutions-smoking-gun/

https://evolutionnews.org/2018/02/f...guinea-undercut-iconic-galapagos-finch-story/

 

[Anguspure]

13 June 2018 Anguspure: Shoots himself in the foot with a a philosopher lecturing that evolution "makes a mockery of reason itself".
That philosopher is also destroying ID. ID proponents claim it is as scientific as evolution!

Science is only naturalistic methodologically, not ideologically.
In other words a reasoned Scientist will be prepared to admit that the truth about life, the universe and everything may well lie beyond the ability of Science (MN) to asses it.
This Philosopher affirms that truth and in the video shows why it is true.

 

[Anguspure]

A reply to
11 June 2018 Anguspure: Abiogenesis ignorance.
which is
13 June 2018 Anguspure: Bits of ignorance about abiogenesis.
Abiogenesis is the chemistry and physics processes that took pre-biotic conditions to biotic conditions.

The way you are using the word it has the same meaning as "Abracadabra", although perhaps Abracadabra more plausibly has an actual process behind it.

13 June 2018 Anguspure: A probable lie that abiogenesis has been falsified and shown to be false daily (sources?).

So how did the word soup form?

13 June 2018 Anguspure: A probable lie that ID explains common descent (sources?).

Common designer, common thought process, common source material, common parts and components, common origin.

 

[Jimmy D]

So how did the word soup form?

Well wheat was domesticated during neolithic times.....
Pasta was possibly introduced to Italy by the Arabs about a thousand years ago....
Dried pasta became popular around 500 years ago....
The first written record of pasta in tomato sauce was about 200 years ago....
Etc
Etc

The word soup....

"liquid food," 1650s, from French soupe "soup, broth" (13c.), from Late Latin suppa "bread soaked in broth," from a Germanic source (compare Middle Dutch sop "sop, broth"), from Proto-Germanic *sup-, from PIE *sub-, from root *seue- (2) "to take liquid".

So what's your point?


(N.B. I'm not too sure about the accuracy of the above facts)

 

[Anguspure]

Well wheat was domesticated during neolithic times.....
Pasta was possibly introduced to Italy by the Arabs about a thousand years ago....
Dried pasta became popular around 500 years ago....
The first written record of pasta in tomato sauce was about 200 years ago....
Etc
Etc

The word soup....

"liquid food," 1650s, from French soupe "soup, broth" (13c.), from Late Latin suppa "bread soaked in broth," from a Germanic source (compare Middle Dutch sop "sop, broth"), from Proto-Germanic *sup-, from PIE *sub-, from root *seue- (2) "to take liquid".

So what's your point?


(N.B. I'm not too sure about the accuracy of the above facts)

.....yes all by design, all the way back.
So how does the word "soup" appear on a spoon written in the letters contained in a word soup. Abiogenisis fans would probably have me believe that the most likely method is by "Abiogenisis" since far more unlikley specific sequences have appeared by "Abiogenisis" in other soups in the past.
But I think the word appeared by design just as I consider that the best explanation for other specific sequences in other soups is design.
Call me incredulous if you like but stuff like this doesn't just happen by "Abiogenisis" or Abracadabra or whatever you want to call it.

 

[RealityCheck01]

All that article does is pin evidence to the ND framework.

Your lie over the last couple of days is that there evolution says and explains nothing. Those 2 articles are evolution saying and explaining a lot.

11 June 2018 Anguspure: A lie that evolution explains nothing when it explains a lot.
13 June 2018 Anguspure: A "an unintelligent framework says nothing" lie about evolution and its evidence.

 

[Anguspure]

Your lie over the last couple of days is that there evolution says and explains nothing. Those 2 articles are evolution saying and explaining a lot.

11 June 2018 Anguspure: A lie that evolution explains nothing when it explains a lot.
13 June 2018 Anguspure: A "an unintelligent framework says nothing" lie about evolution and its evidence.

Equivocation at best. Of course "evolution" explains a lot, it is a very broad term for "change". On the other hand "evolution" that hides the definition of "Abiogenisis" explains nothing, and the real world evidential explanatory power of Darwins theory is limited.

 

[RealityCheck01]

As an evolutionist you should know that years count for nothing in evolution.

I know that. Do you know how to recognize Behe's delusions or retract lies?

13 June 2018 Anguspure: A lying "A specific example of this happening is......???" question.
13 June 2018 Anguspure: A lie that the concepts in modern evolution make it "only more implausible".
11 June 2018 Anguspure: Parrots a "biological diversity cannot occur in 3.8 billion years" Behe delusion

14 June 2018 Anguspure: A "kind" mistake and a speciation is a "complete fantasy in the real world" lie.
It is species. "kinds" are a non-biological, creationist term usually used to excuse the lack of space in the ark for species. That leads needing imaginary "hyper evolution" to explain modern species.

Speciation has been observed. Thus "a complete fantasy in the real world" is a lie.
Observed Instances of Speciation and Some More Observed Speciation Events.
You linked to an example of at least the first step of speciation (I just wrote just speciation before).
E. coli Long-term Experimental Evolution Project Site and E. coli long-term evolution experiment

The inability to grow aerobically on citrate, referred to as a Cit− phenotype, is considered a defining characteristic of E. coli as a species, and one that has been a valuable means of differentiating E. coli from pathogenic Salmonella.

Some biologists treat this as a speciation event. However the lead researcher, Lenski, thinks of speciation as a process and a single event is not enough for speciation.

14 June 2018 Anguspure: Unthinking parroting of Darwin's finches lies from the creationist/ID Discovery Institute.
These idiots think that writing lies about evolution on a "evolution news" blog supports their ID pseudoscience. That would be the logical fallacy of false dichotomy if they had actual evidence against evolution and for their ID fantasy.

This case in point is easy to understand as a lie. A common definition of a species is a distinctive population that does not breed with other populations. This is used for larger multi-cellular animals such as birds. Peter and Rosemary Grant observed a distinctive bird appearing on an island. This distinctive bird breed with other birds. There is now a population of distinctive birds that do not breed with the other birds on the island. That is a new species.

The science remains: A New Bird Species Has Evolved on Galapagos And Scientists Watched It Happen

 

[RealityCheck01]

Science is only naturalistic methodologically, not ideologically.

You think ID is science. So:
13 June 2018 Anguspure: Shoots himself in the foot with a philosopher lecturing that evolution "makes a mockery of reason itself" [when the same applies to ID].

 

[RealityCheck01]

The way you are using the word it has the same meaning as "Abracadabra"...

14 June 2018 Anguspure: Irrelevant "Abracadabra" gibberish when abiogenesis is published science.

The probable lies below are becoming more probable with no sources in this post.

11 June 2018 Anguspure: Abiogenesis ignorance.
13 June 2018 Anguspure: Bits of ignorance about abiogenesis.
13 June 2018 Anguspure: A probable lie that abiogenesis has been falsified and shown to be false daily (sources?).
13 June 2018 Anguspure: A probable lie that ID explains common descent (sources?).

 

[RealityCheck01]

Of course "evolution" explains a lot, it is a very broad term for "change". On the other hand "evolution" that hides the definition of "Abiogenisis" explains nothing, and the real world evidential explanatory power of Darwins theory is limited.

Stating that you lied without retracting the lie is not good. You need to explicitly retract:
11 June 2018 Anguspure: A lie that evolution explains nothing when it explains a lot.
13 June 2018 Anguspure: A "an unintelligent framework says nothing" lie about evolution and its evidence.

14 June 2018 Anguspure: An evolution "hides the definition" of abiogenesis lie when he has knows evolution is separate from abiogenesis.
Evolution is a scientific theory about life. Evolution explains the overwhelming evidence that species change and can become new species.
Abiogenesis is a scientific theory about the formation of the first life forms.

The real world evidential explanatory power of evolution is limited to evolution !

 

[Anguspure]

I know that. Do you know how to recognize Behe's delusions or retract lies?

13 June 2018 Anguspure: A lying "A specific example of this happening is......???" question.
13 June 2018 Anguspure: A lie that the concepts in modern evolution make it "only more implausible".
11 June 2018 Anguspure: Parrots a "biological diversity cannot occur in 3.8 billion years" Behe delusion

14 June 2018 Anguspure: A "kind" mistake and a speciation is a "complete fantasy in the real world" lie.
It is species. "kinds" are a non-biological, creationist term usually used to excuse the lack of space in the ark for species. That leads needing imaginary "hyper evolution" to explain modern species.

Speciation has been observed. Thus "a complete fantasy in the real world" is a lie.
Observed Instances of Speciation and Some More Observed Speciation Events.
You linked to an example of at least the first step of speciation (I just wrote just speciation before).
E. coli Long-term Experimental Evolution Project Site and E. coli long-term evolution experiment

Some biologists treat this as a speciation event. However the lead researcher, Lenski, thinks of speciation as a process and a single event is not enough for speciation.

Speciation is not novel and not a developement apart from Kind. Speciation is an environmental fine tuning to fit environment.

ND is a very good theory in terms of speciation and is a marvelous feature for providing redundancy of design within an ever changing world.

14 June 2018 Anguspure

: Unthinking parroting of Darwin's finches lies from the creationist/ID Discovery Institute.
These idiots think that writing lies about evolution on a "evolution news" blog supports their ID pseudoscience. That would be the logical fallacy of false dichotomy if they had actual evidence against evolution and for their ID fantasy.

This case in point is easy to understand as a lie. A common definition of a species is a distinctive population that does not breed with other populations. This is used for larger multi-cellular animals such as birds. Peter and Rosemary Grant observed a distinctive bird appearing on an island. This distinctive bird breed with other birds. There is now a population of distinctive birds that do not breed with the other birds on the island. That is a new species.

The science remains: A New Bird Species Has Evolved on Galapagos And Scientists Watched It Happen

Very silly.

 

[Anguspure]

You think ID is science. So:
13 June 2018 Anguspure: Shoots himself in the foot with a philosopher lecturing that evolution "makes a mockery of reason itself" [when the same applies to ID].

In so far as Intelligent design certainly does not fulfill the Scientistic Dogma of Naturalism then I guess it is not Scientistic, you are correct.
However in so far as it employs the common knowledge of the best explanation for design where it becomes apparant certainly fulfills the definition of science, if science can be defined in terms of things that we know to be true about the natural world.