Conservative Group Developing Hit-List of Civil Servants Suspected of Future Disloyalty

[iluvatar5150]

I'm curious as how effective you believe that method would be.

Politicians eat that stuff up. It’s a super easy win for them.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Do Americans want the various federal bureaucracies, which are all filled with people who were NOT elected into those bureaucracies, to be less accountable to the American public or more accountable to the American public?

I want professionals doing professional jobs, not some political hacks.

 

[Pommer]

"Civil service protections provide due process for feds who are disciplined or dismissed, leading critics to argue that they make it too hard to fire them. Ultimately, however, it is the American public that benefits from these rules.

Due process prevents the White House and its political appointees from dumping employees for partisan reasons. While top-level agency employees are political appointees who advance a president’s agenda, civil servants are charged with implementing those policies in a nonpartisan manner. Due-process procedures for the civil service are designed to protect the public by ensuring it is served by a nonpartisan, nonpolitical bureaucracy. The 1883 Pendleton Act was passed to promote a federal workforce based on merit, not partisan bias."


Trump’s plan to gut civil service protections was harsher than estimated

Governments (by design) are rule-bound…threads like this present one makes me think that some people may not be aware that agencies are constantly going over the rules to see if they’re breaking something else when trying to regulate their own area of of the governance of our Nation.

Bureaucracies tend to ward off scrutiny by being ship-shape and conforming to the rules and regulations that they’ve written to govern/manage themselves (with the final approval in Congress, (at some point, or another)).

But as I said above, maybe there’s some good thinking in civil-service reform? (I mean, beyond, making people more vulnerable to being fired.)

 

[SimplyMe]

Do you want the Federal bureaucracies to be accountable to the American public?

Yes, and this does nothing to promote that. It might make Federal bureaucracies to be accountable to half the people of the US (the people who belong to that political party), which isn't a good thing; though it is more likely they'll simply be accountable to the President.

Personally, I'd rather have NOAA create hurricane threat maps based on science, rather than creating maps to correct a President's mistake (so he doesn't have to draw on the map with a Sharpie).

But let's put it a different way. Suppose Democrats find their own version of a "Trump" who promises retribution against the "evil Republicans." Do you seriously want such a President to put his own political cronies to fully run the Federal Bureaucracies, to include places like the rank and file of the IRS (who make sure only Republicans get audited) or at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives where the new employees take steps to prevent Americans from buying guns?

I don't care which party controls the Presidency, this is a terrible idea.

 

[MForbes]

Do you want the Federal bureaucracies to be accountable to the American public?

Answer this question. If the president makes federal employees to swear an oath to HIM (or get fired), and not the constitution.......would you do it? Would you swear an oath to HIM?

I'm not saying this will happen, but there are rumblings that it could.

 

[Vambram]

Answer this question. If the president makes federal employees to swear an oath to HIM (or get fired), and not the constitution.......would you do it? Would you swear an oath to HIM?

I'm not saying this will happen, but there are rumblings that it could.

Oaths of Enlistment and Oaths of Office | U.S. Army Center of Military History

This is the only oath that I have sworn to obey as a member of the military. No one should swear an oath to the POTUS only. IMO, that is a loaded question. I also believe that there will never be a POTUS who will do what you are implying.

 

[MForbes]

Oaths of Enlistment and Oaths of Office | U.S. Army Center of Military History

This is the only oath that I have sworn to obey as a member of the military. No one should swear an oath to the POTUS only. IMO, that is a loaded question. I also believe that there will never be a POTUS who will do what you are implying.

I took this oath when I joined the military....and every time I reenlisted in the Army - for 20 years. I also took this similar oath when I became a civil servant almost 20 years ago. I have a long history of service to the United States, so don't think I'm stupid.

My question is not loaded, and I'm not "implying" anything. I said "IF".....IF....not when. And you're absolutely correct, no one should swear an oath to a man only. I'm truly hoping that something like this would never happen. It would be shades of Nazi Germany in 1934 when Hitler made the Wehrmact and civil servants swear an oath to him, not the state.

If you notice, U.S. enlisted military members swear their oath to defending the constitution and obey the president and the officer's appointed over them. Officers swear their oath to defend the constitution only, no oath to the president, same for civil servants.

Ronald Reagan was my favorite president. I do not like Biden, and did not vote for him; however, I like Trump even less and never did or never will vote for him.

 

[FireDragon76]

Do Americans want the various federal bureaucracies, which are all filled with people who were NOT elected into those bureaucracies, to be less accountable to the American public or more accountable to the American public?

The whole point of having a federal bureaucracy that isn't political is to have the best people, not political sycophants.

 

[frienden thalord]

Oaths of Enlistment and Oaths of Office | U.S. Army Center of Military History

This is the only oath that I have sworn to obey as a member of the military. No one should swear an oath to the POTUS only. IMO, that is a loaded question. I also believe that there will never be a POTUS who will do what you are implying.

Both foreign and domestic .

 

[frienden thalord]

Oaths of Enlistment and Oaths of Office | U.S. Army Center of Military History

This is the only oath that I have sworn to obey as a member of the military. No one should swear an oath to the POTUS only. IMO, that is a loaded question. I also believe that there will never be a POTUS who will do what you are implying.

Did you figure out why i said both foreign and domestic . cause domestic can occur too .

 

[SimplyMe]

I took this oath when I joined the military....and every time I reenlisted in the Army - for 20 years. I also took this similar oath when I became a civil servant almost 20 years ago. I have a long history of service to the United States, so don't think I'm stupid.

My question is not loaded, and I'm not "implying" anything. I said "IF".....IF....not when. And you're absolutely correct, no one should swear an oath to a man only. I'm truly hoping that something like this would never happen. It would be shades of Nazi Germany in 1934 when Hitler made the Wehrmact and civil servants swear an oath to him, not the state.

If you notice, U.S. enlisted military members swear their oath to defending the constitution and obey the president and the officer's appointed over them. Officers swear their oath to defend the constitution only, no oath to the president, same for civil servants.

Ronald Reagan was my favorite president. I do not like Biden, and did not vote for him; however, I like Trump even less and never did or never will vote for him.

I'll take it a step farther: If you give the President the right to fire and hire based on his whims (as this does), then it follows that at some point a President will require loyalty to him and fire those that don't "toe the line."

I'll also note the applications at Project 2025 (to apply to be selected by Trump to work in the Federal Government, should Trump win) include posting all your social media accounts, past and present (which appear to be to verify you would be loyal to a Trump administration), any media appearances (which include YouTube, Instagram and Facebook) where you talk about Trump or his administration, what political figures inspired and influenced you and who best reflects your views, etc. To be fair, none of these questions require you to show "loyalty to Trump" and could be simply to prove your "Republican credentials." OTOH, the questions are phrased in such a way, particularly with access to all your social media, that it would be easy to ensure only those that will be loyal to Trump will be selected.

 

[Vambram]

I took this oath when I joined the military....and every time I reenlisted in the Army - for 20 years. I also took this similar oath when I became a civil servant almost 20 years ago. I have a long history of service to the United States, so don't think I'm stupid.

My question is not loaded, and I'm not "implying" anything. I said "IF".....IF....not when. And you're absolutely correct, no one should swear an oath to a man only. I'm truly hoping that something like this would never happen. It would be shades of Nazi Germany in 1934 when Hitler made the Wehrmact and civil servants swear an oath to him, not the state.

If you notice, U.S. enlisted military members swear their oath to defending the constitution and obey the president and the officer's appointed over them. Officers swear their oath to defend the constitution only, no oath to the president, same for civil servants.

Ronald Reagan was my favorite president. I do not like Biden, and did not vote for him; however, I like Trump even less and never did or never will vote for him.

In my opinion, Joe Biden is by far the very worst POTUS that I have ever seen in the last 59 years. But I do agree with you that Ronald Reagan is also my favorite POTUS during my lifetime.

 

[Vambram]

Did you figure out why i said both foreign and domestic . cause domestic can occur too .

I figured that out decades ago before my first enlistment in the US Army in 1993.

 

[Vambram]

The whole point of having a federal bureaucracy that isn't political is to have the best people, not political sycophants.

That is a fair and valid point. However, should the Federal bureaucracies be accountable to the American public?

 

[BCP1928]

I am not suggesting to make them elected offices. However, should the Federal bureaucracies be accountable to the American public?

They're accountable now. What you are talking about is the spoils system. Read about it, it's a blast from the past.

 

[Vambram]

They're accountable now. What you are talking about is the spoils system. Read about it, it's a blast from the past.

I am not talking about the spoils system at all.

 

[FireDragon76]

That is a fair and valid point. However, should the Federal bureaucracies be accountable to the American public?

It is, at least in theory, through our representatives in government.

 

[FireDragon76]

They're accountable now. What you are talking about is the spoils system. Read about it, it's a blast from the past.

That's why President Garfield was assassinated, because the spoils system used to be the normal way the federal bureaucracy worked. And government was even more corrupt than it is now.

 

[frienden thalord]

I figured that out decades ago before my first enlistment in the US Army in 1993.

We got a boot amongst us . remember that term . we used to call those who enlisted after we did
boots . I enlisted into the marine corpse in 92. Right before you had enlisted .
I got tickled when i remembered that . That must mean you are close to my age .
So allow me a question . So many try and say the world has always been like this .
Sure evil has always been in the world , but i sure dont seem
to remember me a generation that praised and honored sin like we see today .
meaning i dont seem to remember me a pride month
or a generation that was PRAISED for beleiving it was another sex than the sex it had been born .
TIMES have CHANGED my friend . and not for the better either but for the worse and it has done
so quite quickly in this last generation .
Used to be if one believed they were an alien , another sex , an etc that even society would
know that was reprobate . NOT No more .
you see no longer are sins hidden , THEY OUTRIGHT HONORED IN THE STREETS .
and now a word .
YE are as sodom unto me , you no longer even try and hide your sins you celebrate them in the streets .
Do you ever get the feeling JUDGMENT IS AT THE DOOR .
In fact a judgment of sorts has already been unleashed . THIS Judgmement .
And even as they did like to entertain GOD in their thoughts , SO HE GAVE THEM OVER TO A REPROBATE Mind to do such things .
This will lead to the end of this world unto the day of perdition of ungodly men .
Just some friendly reminders , EVEN THOUGH you ALREADY KNOW THEM .

 

[frienden thalord]

We got a boot amongst us . remember that term . we used to call those who enlisted after we did
boots . I enlisted into the marine corpse in 92. Right before you had enlisted .
I got tickled when i remembered that . That must mean you are close to my age .
So allow me a question . So many try and say the world has always been like this .
Sure evil has always been in the world , but i sure dont seem
to remember me a generation that praised and honored sin like we see today .
meaning i dont seem to remember me a pride month
or a generation that was PRAISED for beleiving it was another sex than the sex it had been born .
TIMES have CHANGED my friend . and not for the better either but for the worse and it has done
so quite quickly in this last generation .
Used to be if one believed they were an alien , another sex , an etc that even society would
know that was reprobate . NOT No more .
you see no longer are sins hidden , THEY OUTRIGHT HONORED IN THE STREETS .
and now a word .
YE are as sodom unto me , you no longer even try and hide your sins you celebrate them in the streets .
Do you ever get the feeling JUDGMENT IS AT THE DOOR .
In fact a judgment of sorts has already been unleashed . THIS Judgmement .
And even as they did like to entertain GOD in their thoughts , SO HE GAVE THEM OVER TO A REPROBATE Mind to do such things .
This will lead to the end of this world unto the day of perdition of ungodly men .
Just some friendly reminders , EVEN THOUGH you ALREADY KNOW THEM .