Consciousness Came Before Life

[trophy33]

Most scientists believe that consciousness came after life, as a product of evolution. But observations of extraterrestrial organic material, along with Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff’s quantum theory of consciousness, provide reason to believe that consciousness came before life. In fact, argue Hameroff and his collaborators, consciousness may have been what made evolution and life possible in the first place.

https://www.realclearscience.com/2024/05/09/consciousness_came_before_life_1030375.html

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

This belongs in the Creation & Evolution sub-forum.

 

[trophy33]

This belongs in the Creation & Evolution sub-forum.

Why? Its not creation vs evolution issue.

 

[Astrid]

One key way life differs from non-life is that life forms have goals. For example, the amoeba seeks to protect itself; the boulder does nothing to prevent itself from becoming sand. How did that essential difference arise?

The team offers a “possible answer”: Some elements of the primordial soup could have reached the threshold of collapse, “resulting in sequences of random, disconnected proto-conscious moments.” Then evolution is invoked, to do the heavy lifting...

Consciousness BEFORE Life? Scientists Say Yes | Evolution News and Science Today

One key way life differs from non-life is that life forms have goals. For example, the amoeba seeks to protect itself.

evolutionnews.org

More details (with subscription/free trial):

Consciousness came before life

Stuart Hameroff argues consciousness didn't evolve, it faciliated evolution.

iai.tv

Does sodium thus have the goal of joining with
chlorine and then with other such moleules to produce NaCl crystals?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Why? Its not creation vs evolution issue.

It absolutely is.

EvolutionNews is a creationist rag.

Hammeroff's ideas are very controversial as well and have obviously been picked up by such creationist orgs for obvious reasons.

This is creationist... stuff.

 

[trophy33]

It absolutely is.

EvolutionNews is a creationist rag.

Ah, I did not know that.

Hammeroff's ideas are very controversial as well and have obviously been picked up by such creationist orgs for obvious reasons.

This is creationist... stuff.

I did not know creationists accept evolution and "the primordial soup" just because consciousness is mentioned. Do you have a specific definition for creationists?

 

[Zaha Torte]

This belongs in the Creation & Evolution sub-forum.

Is that a CO subforum?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Ah, I did not know that.


I did not know creationists accept evolution and the "primordial soup".

Didn't say they did. They cherry pick what they want from scientific papers. In this case, "consciousness before life."

Been playing the game a long time. Pretty transparent these days.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Is that a CO subforum?

Creation & Evolution

Open to non-believers.

www.christianforums.com

 

[trophy33]

Didn't say they did. They cherry pick what they want from scientific papers. In this case, "consciousness before life."

Been playing the game a long time. Pretty transparent these days.

You are right, now I see a lot of intelligent design type of articles there.

Edit: I changed the source for it to be more religiously neutral.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

You are right, now I see a lot of "intelligent design" type of articles there.

Edit: I changed the source for it to be more religiously neutral.

provide a link to the article you don't need a credit card for and I'd be happy to read and discuss.

 

[trophy33]

provide a link to the article you don't need a credit card for and I'd be happy to read and discuss.

Its a link to a longer, public article, now.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Creation & Evolution

Open to non-believers.

www.christianforums.com

Nice.

It's so frustrating when they move a thread and all my stuff gets deleted.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Its a link to a longer, public article, now.

Thanks! I'll take a look.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Nice.

It's so frustrating when they move a thread and all my stuff gets deleted.

Tell me about it. I've had insanely clever jabs just erased when threads get moved to the Christians-Only section of the forum where I'm not allowed to post.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Most scientists believe that consciousness came after life, as a product of evolution. But observations of extraterrestrial organic material, along with Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff’s quantum theory of consciousness, provide reason to believe that consciousness came before life. In fact, argue Hameroff and his collaborators, consciousness may have been what made evolution and life possible in the first place.

https://www.realclearscience.com/2024/05/09/consciousness_came_before_life_1030375.html

Amen. The fundamental nature of the universe is consciousness.

 

[HTacianas]

Most scientists believe that consciousness came after life, as a product of evolution. But observations of extraterrestrial organic material, along with Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff’s quantum theory of consciousness, provide reason to believe that consciousness came before life. In fact, argue Hameroff and his collaborators, consciousness may have been what made evolution and life possible in the first place.

https://www.realclearscience.com/2024/05/09/consciousness_came_before_life_1030375.html

I've attempted to explain the Trinity to people using the example of sell division. One cell divides into two, then you have a multi-cellular organism composed of two cells. But you can't say that either is the original. It never really worked with the trinity thoug, the Trinity being three instead of two. But then I read this:

They found distinctive self-similar resonance conductance patterns where each conductance response is grouped into sets of three, and then these groups are themselves grouped into larger sets of three.

But anyways. Did consciousness come before life? It's an interesting question.


Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

 

[Larniavc]

Most scientists believe that consciousness came after life, as a product of evolution. But observations of extraterrestrial organic material, along with Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff’s quantum theory of consciousness, provide reason to believe that consciousness came before life. In fact, argue Hameroff and his collaborators, consciousness may have been what made evolution and life possible in the first place.

https://www.realclearscience.com/2024/05/09/consciousness_came_before_life_1030375.html

From the article.

“for example, oceanic hydrothermal vents can metabolize, transform energy and synthesize chemicals, weather and climate systems adapt to changes in solar radiation, volcanic activity, and other natural factors,”

Smh

 

[Astrid]

From the article.

“for example, oceanic hydrothermal vents can metabolize, transform energy and synthesize chemicals, weather and climate systems adapt to changes in solar radiation, volcanic activity, and other natural factors,”

Smh

Where's the consciousness?

 

[expos4ever]

Hammeroff's ideas are very controversial as well and have obviously been picked up by such creationist orgs for obvious reasons.

Whether or not Hammeroff's ideas have been co-opted by creationist organizations, I believe it needs to be said that Hammerroff is, to the best of my knowledge, a serious, and respected expert in the field of consciousness. I know nothing about his ideas, but I am quite sure that he is considered to be a reputable person.

All sorts of reputable ideas have been co-opted by organizations with dubious credibility. That does not mean that the original ideas can be dismissed on that basis.