Confused about the commandment that was "abolished." (2)

[Cribstyl]

That is incorrect, there is a difference between the LORD's Sabbath "My Holy Day...the sabbath...the Holy of the LORD..." [Isaiah 58:13], and theirs...

I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

That is not speaking of the Moral [Spiritual] Ten Commandments, the 4th Commandment, a Memorial, but rather it is speaking of all those which were given in type through Moses.

Leviticus 23, reveals this, as do other places, all the other sabbaths...:

"Beside the sabbaths of the LORD..." [vs 38]; the weekly from Creation.

Anyone who reads and study Hosea 2 can see that it's talking about all and any sabbaths.

One is known from Creation [Genesis 2:1-3, etc] though neglected in Egypt, but restored once again and is forever [even in the New Heaven and New Earth; Isaiah 66:23; Exodus 31:16]; the others, there is nothing of them until after the events of Mt. Sinai, and were only given until the time of the reformation.

Scambling to take other scriptures out of context is expected.

 

[bugkiller]

That is incorrect, there is a difference between the LORD's Sabbath "My Holy Day...the sabbath...the Holy of the LORD..." [Isaiah 58:13], and theirs...

I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

That is not speaking of the Moral [Spiritual] Ten Commandments, the 4th Commandment, a Memorial, but rather it is speaking of all those which were given in type through Moses.

Leviticus 23, reveals this, as do other places, all the other sabbaths...:

"Beside the sabbaths of the LORD..." [vs 38]; the weekly from Creation.

One is known from Creation [Genesis 2:1-3, etc] though neglected in Egypt, but restored once again and is forever [even in the New Heaven and New Earth; Isaiah 66:23; Exodus 31:16]; the others, there is nothing of them until after the events of Mt. Sinai, and were only given until the time of the reformation.

Further response here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7744983/#post63051508

http://www.christianforums.com/t7744983/#post63059366

No sir there is not.

God gave Israel the sabbath and therefore it is reasonable to call the Sabbath of the Lord thy God her sabbath. So unless you have proof that Israel was observing someone else's sabbath you are very wrong. This covers the pollution of the 7th day sabbath among the Isreali.

bugkiller

 

[Cribstyl]

Keeping the Sabbath is meaningless to salvation otherwise Jews would be saved while rejecting Jesus as they certainly know better how to keep the Sabbath than most Christians here. The same Jews keep the 10 commandments better than Christians... why are Christians saved and Jews that deny Christ NOT saved? The answer is.... it has NOTHING to do with the Sabbath and everything to do with Christ.

That's a good point...

 

[tall73]

God said the sabbath would cease.

bugkiller

Just a clarification, but do you mean in Hosea?

Hos 2:9 Therefore I will take back my grain in its time, and my wine in its season, and I will take away my wool and my flax, which were to cover her nakedness.
Hos 2:10 Now I will uncover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and no one shall rescue her out of my hand.
Hos 2:11 And I will put an end to all her mirth, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths, and all her appointed feasts.
Hos 2:12 And I will lay waste her vines and her fig trees, of which she said, 'These are my wages, which my lovers have given me.' I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall devour them.
Hos 2:13 And I will punish her for the feast days of the Baals when she burned offerings to them and adorned herself with her ring and jewelry, and went after her lovers and forgot me, declares the LORD.

I had always read this as God's driving them into exile when all their celebrations, etc would cease, hence its being tied to taking away the vines, fig trees, wool, etc. that she attributed to the Baals, but was actually from God.

 

[Leuko Petra]

Keeping the Sabbath is meaningless to salvation otherwise Jews would be saved while rejecting Jesus as they certainly know better how to keep the Sabbath than most Christians here. The same Jews keep the 10 commandments better than Christians... why are Christians saved and Jews that deny Christ NOT saved? The answer is.... it has NOTHING to do with the Sabbath and everything to do with Christ.

Why do we need the sacrifice of Christ Jesus to begin with?

 

[shturt678]

Why do we need the sacrifice of Christ Jesus to begin with?

One of responses would be Rev.13:8c, "already slain."

 

[bugkiller]

Just a clarification, but do you mean in Hosea?

Hos 2:9 Therefore I will take back my grain in its time, and my wine in its season, and I will take away my wool and my flax, which were to cover her nakedness.
Hos 2:10 Now I will uncover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and no one shall rescue her out of my hand.
Hos 2:11 And I will put an end to all her mirth, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths, and all her appointed feasts.
Hos 2:12 And I will lay waste her vines and her fig trees, of which she said, 'These are my wages, which my lovers have given me.' I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall devour them.
Hos 2:13 And I will punish her for the feast days of the Baals when she burned offerings to them and adorned herself with her ring and jewelry, and went after her lovers and forgot me, declares the LORD.

I had always read this as God's driving them into exile when all their celebrations, etc would cease, hence its being tied to taking away the vines, fig trees, wool, etc. that she attributed to the Baals, but was actually from God.

Then one needs a restoration of the sabbath. Is there one? So far no SDA has posted one that I have read.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Why do we need the sacrifice of Christ Jesus to begin with?

Then indeed you teach one can possess salvation without Jesus.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

One wonders why Seventh Day Adventists make such a song and dance about worshipping on Saturdays instead of Sundays.

It is because they believe keeping the sabbath is a requirement of salvation. Read all the forums, especially the old threads.

bugkilller

 

[Sophrosyne]

Why do we need the sacrifice of Christ Jesus to begin with?

Can one be saved without keeping the Sabbath or not? Yes or No?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Then indeed you teach one can possess salvation without Jesus.

bugkiller

That is what happens when the Law starts to dilute the power of the cross such that you start "helping" God save you a little by keeping commandments then a little more then instead of faith in Christ your faith is in keeping laws like the Sabbath instead.

 

[Cribstyl]

Can one be saved without keeping the Sabbath or not? Yes or No?

I dont think you'll get a straight answer from SDA. Expect a question.............

 

[Sophrosyne]

I dont think you'll get a straight answer from SDA. Expect a question.............

Of course not.... you typically don't get the truth from lawyers you only get information on how to get away with things you want to get away with. The Law showed man that he couldn't get away with sin yet we still have people thinking they can get away with sin by confining it to rules/laws/commandments so that no sin can escape from its bounds and one can then stay within its limits and define one saved if they are within limits. Jesus said NO to such nonsense that nobody is good, Law or not.... no one.

 

[tzadik]

Keeping the Sabbath is meaningless to salvation otherwise Jews would be saved while rejecting Jesus as they certainly know better how to keep the Sabbath than most Christians here. The same Jews keep the 10 commandments better than Christians... why are Christians saved and Jews that deny Christ NOT saved? The answer is.... it has NOTHING to do with the Sabbath and everything to do with Christ.

LOL.

So you dishonor your parents...
cheat on your wife...
covet...
lie...
steal...
blaspheme God's name....
worship idols...


because they do not have something to do with your salvation???

 

[tzadik]

Then one needs a restoration of the sabbath. Is there one? So far no SDA has posted one that I have read.

bugkiller

Don't you bring up the reading problem more than anyone on here??

Hos 2:9 Therefore I will take back my grain in its time, and my wine in its season, and I will take away my wool and my flax, which were to cover her nakedness.
Hos 2:10 Now I will uncover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and no one shall rescue her out of my hand.
Hos 2:11 And I will put an end to all her mirth, her feasts, her new moons, her sabbaths, and all her appointed feasts.
Hos 2:12 And I will lay waste her vines and her fig trees, of which she said, 'These are my wages, which my lovers have given me.' I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall devour them.
Hos 2:13 And I will punish her for the feast days of the Baals when she burned offerings to them and adorned herself with her ring and jewelry, and went after her lovers and forgot me, declares the LORD.

my and her are both in this text. Pick who is my and who is her

A 2 year old can pick out the difference between what is God's and what is the whoring "her" in this passage...

 

[Sophrosyne]

LOL.

So you dishonor your parents...
cheat on your wife...
covet...
lie...
steal...
blaspheme God's name....
worship idols...


because they do not have something to do with your salvation???

So tell me who is saved... the person that accepts Jesus by faith or the one that tries (and fails) to not dishonor their parents, cheat on their spouse, covet, lie, steal, blaspheme God's name, worship idols?

 

[tzadik]

So tell me who is saved... the person that accepts Jesus by faith or the one that tries (and fails) to not dishonor their parents, cheat on their spouse, covet, lie, steal, blaspheme God's name, worship idols?

Are you purposefully leaving stuff out of that statement?

Are you comparing someone who gave a profession of faith with someone who is "keeping the Law" without being born again?

You said that keeping the Sabbath has nothing to do with salvation...
my question to you was...do you stop keeping the rest of the 10 commandments because they don't have to do with your salvation?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Are you purposefully leaving stuff out of that statement?

Are you comparing someone who gave a profession of faith with someone who is "keeping the Law" without being born again?

You said that keeping the Sabbath has nothing to do with salvation...
my question to you was...do you stop keeping the rest of the 10 commandments because they don't have to do with your salvation?

One who is saved is seen as a sinner, one doesn't become sinless by keeping commandments as Jesus said one may not be a murderer by the 10 commandments thus seen as not in sin but according to him just the act of hating his brother he is seen just as if he murdered him. The 10 commandments are not good enough for Christians to follow they fall way short of the righteousness God wants us to walk in. I see no use for that low standard when Jesus equated a higher standard of love to keep and even at that knew we would break these standards but our faith in him not breaking any standard set by the Law nor standard he himself set saves us.

Again I ask you who is saved a Jew that never has murdered anyone nor broke the Sabbath nor committed adultery that rejects Jesus or a guy in prison on death row for murder that has accepted Christ as his savior and constantly deals day to day with hating people and lusting and other sinful thoughts in his head? Faith is all.... keeping laws is meaningless if one uses them as a crutch to claim a place in heaven.

 

[bugkiller]

Of course not.... you typically don't get the truth from lawyers you only get information on how to get away with things you want to get away with. The Law showed man that he couldn't get away with sin yet we still have people thinking they can get away with sin by confining it to rules/laws/commandments so that no sin can escape from its bounds and one can then stay within its limits and define one saved if they are within limits. Jesus said NO to such nonsense that nobody is good, Law or not.... no one.

Yeah the law and all the rules about the law can not contain sin. To propose so is to be dreaming of uptopia. My SDA neighbor just went hardcore vegan on me. He already is a practcing vegan and now says, rather claims he is going to get all herbicides and pesticides out of his food chain. No more grocery store. The dude asked me how to start a brush fire. He even asked if I use gasoline. This is after 14 years in the country. Be it will not happen. He is just a city boy living in the sticks still trying to live like in the city. His garden will not produce enough food for one in a year. He does have enough open grass to plant soy beans though.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

LOL.

So you dishonor your parents...
cheat on your wife...
covet...
lie...
steal...
blaspheme God's name....
worship idols...


because they do not have something to do with your salvation???

Why yes sir no law means we are to commit evil acts. You should read the NT sometime.

bugkiller