Conception of Hell

[Timothew]

Revelation 2:11
The one who has an ear, hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. The one overcoming will not at all be hurt by the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving, and those having become foul, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the lying ones, their part will be in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

The bible is pretty clear that those who dies (the second death) will be in torment for all eternity in the lake of fire.

I bolded a few words in your post, I still think death means death, not torment.

 

[Capuano231]

Alright, my Spritual beliefs:

There is a God
There is a Heaven and Hell
I believe in Buddha's teachings (not to sure about reincarnation)
People don't go to Hell because they don't believe in Jesus Christ or God (but don't think Jesus suffered for nothing)

Does this mean I go to the Christian Hell?

 

[JesusFreak78]

I bolded a few words in your post, I still think death means death, not torment.

You are free to think that, but only if you want to go against God's word.

 

[Capuano231]

You are free to think that, but only if you want to go against God's word.

No, He is going against MAN'S word.

If what you say is true, knowing that my family will be in pain for all eternity is Hell on Earth... I just can't handle that thought in my mind... No matter what verses from the Bible you throw at me.

 

[Timothew]

You are free to think that, but only if you want to go against God's word.

I disagree.

See John 3:16, Romans 6:23, and James 1:15.

Tim

 

[JesusFreak78]

No, He is going against MAN'S word.

If what you say is true, knowing that my family will be in pain for all eternity is Hell on Earth... I just can't handle that thought in my mind... No matter what verses from the Bible you throw at me.

I will have family member going to hell too, but I can't do anything about it. God's word is true and will always be true no matter what we think about it. The word of God must be obeyed no matter what the cost is.

 

[JesusFreak78]

I disagree.

See John 3:16, Romans 6:23, and James 1:15.

Tim

I see no contradictions. Scripture is in harmony and don't contradict each other.

 

[Timothew]

And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman.

Genesis 2:16,17 and 3:1-4. (NIV)

God said that if they sinned by eating the fruit they would die. I agree with God.

The Serpent said that they would not die. I don't agree with the serpent, do you?

 

[JesusFreak78]

And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman.

Genesis 2:16,17 and 3:1-4. (NIV)

God said that if they sinned by eating the fruit they would die. I agree with God.

The Serpent said that they would not die. I don't agree with the serpent, do you?

I agree with God, but you know those verses are talking about a spiritual death and I still see no contradiction with what I have said.

 

[Timothew]

I agree with God, but you know those verses are talking about a spiritual death and I still see no contradiction with what I have said.

OK, No problem.

I'm just reading the bible, and it says death, and I believe it.

 

[desmalia]

Alright, my Spritual beliefs:

There is a God
There is a Heaven and Hell
I believe in Buddha's teachings (not to sure about reincarnation)
People don't go to Hell because they don't believe in Jesus Christ or God (but don't think Jesus suffered for nothing)

Does this mean I go to the Christian Hell?

There is no such thing as "the Christian Hell". There's just hell. And all of us are filthy sinners in light of God's perfect holiness. We all deserve hell. And that includes you, friend. We sin against God continually and we deserve nothing less than His full wrath on us. Until you have some semblance of that reality, the rest just won't make sense. (And Buddha won't be able to help you with that). You are a sinner. You are a rebel and a blasphemer. Your just reward is hell.

God gave up His own perfect, holy son to die in the place of sinful fallen humans in His infinite mercy and love. That is grace. By its definition it is undeserved. I will never deserve heaven in my fallen humanness. It is only the atonement of Christ who stands in my place, that I will know eternal joy in glory with Him. You see, heaven IS Christ - perfect intimate eternal existence with Him. It's not some place where we sit on a cloud playing a harp and just so glad we're not burning in hell.

A lot of unbelievers assume that Christianity is just choosing a set of beliefs. It's not. Faith is a gift from God, not something mustered as imagining up a Tooth Fairy or something. You see, our eyes are opened and we know we are sinners against God. We are remorseful about the sins we commit and we are being transformed by the Holy Spirit into Christ-likeness. We are born again - a new creation. Salvation is not just after we die. It is right now.

 

[nChrist]

Forget about what men think and find out what God's Word says. God's Word is the sole source and authority on this issue. That's not very difficult. Here's a start for you:

Mark 9:43-48 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
​

 

[JesusFreak78]

There is no such thing as "the Christian Hell". There's just hell. And all of us are filthy sinners in light of God's perfect holiness. We all deserve hell. And that includes you, friend. We sin against God continually and we deserve nothing less than His full wrath on us. Until you have some semblance of that reality, the rest just won't make sense. (And Buddha won't be able to help you with that). You are a sinner. You are a rebel and a blasphemer. Your just reward is hell.

God gave up His own perfect, holy son to die in the place of sinful fallen humans in His infinite mercy and love. That is grace. By its definition it is undeserved. I will never deserve heaven in my fallen humanness. It is only the atonement of Christ who stands in my place, that I will know eternal joy in glory with Him. You see, heaven IS Christ - perfect intimate eternal existence with Him. It's not some place where we sit on a cloud playing a harp and just so glad we're not burning in hell.

A lot of unbelievers assume that Christianity is just choosing a set of beliefs. It's not. Faith is a gift from God, not something mustered as imagining up a Tooth Fairy or something. You see, our eyes are opened and we know we are sinners against God. We are remorseful about the sins we commit and we are being transformed by the Holy Spirit into Christ-likeness. We are born again - a new creation. Salvation is not just after we die. It is right now.

Amen!
A very good post.

 

[Bro_Sam]

What is "hell" to you? For me, it's not the traditional "fire and brimstone" place, but a place full of darkness, decay, and moaning, a complete and total absence from God. Satan rules this darkness. I compare it to John Milton's conception.

So what is your basis for rejecting the Biblical description of Hell?

And why are you posting in the Conservative Christians area, when you're clearly not Conservative?

 

[Timothew]

So what is your basis for rejecting the Biblical description of Hell?

And why are you posting in the Conservative Christians area, when you're clearly not Conservative?

Is belief in a literal hell filled with demons and flames a requirement for conservatives?

 

[rstrats]

Timothew,

re: "Is belief in a literal hell filled with demons and flames a requirement for conservatives?"
　
You might want to add the phrase - "in eternal conscious torment" - after the word "belief".

 

[nChrist]

Is belief in a literal hell filled with demons and flames a requirement for conservatives?

One either pays attention to what the Holy Bible bluntly states on this issue or not. For those who don't - they obviously don't consider God's Word to be an Authority on this issue. God's Word is the Authority for this area of the forum.

 

[Timothew]

One either pays attention to what the Holy Bible bluntly states on this issue or not. For those who don't - they obviously don't consider God's Word to be an Authority on this issue. God's Word is the Authority for this area of the forum.

Where are these blunt statements?

The wages of sin is death?
Whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life?
Whoever has the Son has life and whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life?

Do you believe what the bible says, or do you believe what people say the bible says? Do you believe that God's word is an authority on this issue? I do, and eternal torment is not in God's word. Otherwise, show me.

 

[Timothew]

Timothew,

re: "Is belief in a literal hell filled with demons and flames a requirement for conservatives?"
　
You might want to add the phrase - "in eternal conscious torment" - after the word "belief".

Yes, that's what I meant. I believe in a "literal hell", if by "literal hell," you mean "death." If literal hell means "eternal conscious torment over open flames, being poked with pitchforks and listening to Whitney Houston records for all eternity," I don't believe in that.

 

[nChrist]

Where are these blunt statements?

The wages of sin is death?
Whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life?
Whoever has the Son has life and whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life?

Do you believe what the bible says, or do you believe what people say the bible says? Do you believe that God's word is an authority on this issue? I do, and eternal torment is not in God's word. Otherwise, show me.

I've already given you a sample:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7477943-2/#post55240638

Follow the references in your Bible from there and you should have all you need. What the Bible says is blunt and without question. What men think on this issue is not material at all.