Communion

[LeeS]

Nothing in scripture supports the above quote. If you understand the significance of communion, then you should understand the significance and Lordship of Jesus who gave us clear teaching and example of how to take communion. he did not say do any old way you want. he said, "...this do..."

It seems that you are saying that Jesus' example of communion is not really important. No offence intended, but I just don't see where you hold any value to any area of Jesus' example in the area of communion.

Jesus said these words while partaking of a Passover meal. I think it's ok to remember the Lord in this as frequently as we desire but when Jesus said it, it was direct reference to the Passover meal. Once a year. So if we REALLY want to get technical about doing it exactly the way Jesus did it would be only once a year, at Passover.

As far as the fermented wine goes, I believe the wine they were drinking was fermented. However, scripture does say that if one cannot do something in "faith" that it is not sin, then for them to do it anyway to try and prove something or other to them it would be sin.

The letter of the law kills. The spirit of the law brings life.

 

[PastorJoey]

Wine is not the issue with an alcoholic. The alcoholic's mind is the problem with the alcoholic just like with the drug addicts. Did it ever occur to you that taking communion might cleanse the alcoholic of alcoholism?

Are you prepared to take full responsibility for telling an alcoholic that taking fermented wine might cure him of his addiction/ sickness? Regardless if its physical or mental it is a serious illness that destroys lives and families.

Also you should do just a little research about alcoholism and drug addiction, it is very physically addictive. It is a long time medically proven fact. It is very naive and simple to think otherwise (no offense intended) and totally disqualifies one to do any form of counseling with an addict.
PJ

 

[KingZzub]

Wine is not the issue with an alcoholic.

Yes it is.

Wine is the issue. He is an alcoholic because he drinks too much. Yes, I believe in the renewing of the mind, but I also believe in "lead me not into temptation."

Would you let a paedophile run your Sunday school on the basis that serving the Lord might help him? I don't think so.

I think your obsession with recreating the Passover meal has blinded you to simple common sense.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[Andrew]

I havent ever taken communion with cake, brownies, orange juice or coke, but my question to you is, if we were in a situation where the only thing we had on hand was a stale piece of cake and half a can of hot cocacola, if the occasion called for communion, are you telling me that Jesus would not participate in it with us? This is what I mean by it not being a law.

Amen.

We try to use the 'right' elements whenever we can. But when the situation is desperate and we only have coke and biscuit or something else, God is not going to say, sorry, but I only recognise wine from Israel and unleavened bread made by Jews.

 

[PastorJoey]

Amen.

We try to use the 'right' elements whenever we can. But when the situation is desperate and we only have coke and biscuit or something else, God is not going to say, sorry, but I only recognise wine from Israel and unleavened bread made by Jews.

Thanks Andrew. Your explanation is hilarious.
PJ

 

[psalms 91]

Thanks Andrew. Your explanation is hilarious.
PJ

Very true God honors the heart of the believer and is not woried abot tradition, while we should use the right elements it is not always necessary

 

[Prosperity]

Jesus said these words while partaking of a Passover meal. I think it's ok to remember the Lord in this as frequently as we desire but when Jesus said it, it was direct reference to the Passover meal. Once a year. So if we REALLY want to get technical about doing it exactly the way Jesus did it would be only once a year, at Passover.

As far as the fermented wine goes, I believe the wine they were drinking was fermented. However, scripture does say that if one cannot do something in "faith" that it is not sin, then for them to do it anyway to try and prove something or other to them it would be sin.

The letter of the law kills. The spirit of the law brings life.

Jesus didn't take Passover at the last meal. He took and officiated over communion. He didn't take communion, prior to being crucified, once a year. He only took it once prior to being crucified. He, through His body has taken communion many time since the cross.

Communion isn't under the law. It is found only within the New Covenant.

If you are apprehensive about doing something that Jesus specifically did Himself and instructed His disciples and you to do, then maybe you are not operating any type of fait, but rather fear.

[size=+0]I do not see taking communion the way Jesus did as being legalistic, but it is being faithful to the Terms of the New Covenant which honors the Lord and serves to usher His blessing into and on us[/size][size=+0].[/size]

 

[Prosperity]

We try to use the 'right' elements whenever we can. But when the situation is desperate and we only have coke and biscuit or something else, God is not going to say, sorry, but I only recognise wine from Israel and unleavened bread made by Jews.

I never said, "God is not going to say, sorry, but I only recognise wine from Israel and unleavened bread made by Jews."

Maybe you might exercise you faith in order for God to be blessed you with having the right elements. God can hadle it.

 

[Prosperity]

Are you prepared to take full responsibility for telling an alcoholic that taking fermented wine might cure him of his addiction/ sickness? Regardless if its physical or mental it is a serious illness that destroys lives and families.

First of all, I'm not responsible for what Jesus instructs us to do, so if you intend to go on a guilt trip, please pack a bag for only one, because I'm not going with you.

Secondly, are prepared to tell Jesus that his blood is not powerful enough to deliver someone from alcoholism.

Also you should do just a little research about alcoholism and drug addiction, it is very physically addictive. It is a long time medically proven fact. It is very naive and simple to think otherwise (no offense intended) and totally disqualifies one to do any form of counseling with an addict.
PJ

You should do a little research on the power in the blood of Jesus. Secular, or even what passes for Christian counseling, can hardly compare with the healing power in the blood of the Lamb.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

The alcoholic has redeemed through the blood of Jesus. Jesus said that the wine was His blood.

Ephesians 9, 11
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after
the counsel of his own will:

The counsel of his will, not your will.

Ephesians 21-22
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Jesus has put all things under His feet, including alcoholism. Christians suffering from alcoholism have been freed from it, they need to believe to receive it.

Like I said before, this is a WOF board. If you wee WOF, then you would understand this.

 

[Prosperity]

Yes it is.

Wine is the issue. He is an alcoholic because he drinks too much. Yes, I believe in the renewing of the mind, but I also believe in "lead me not into temptation."

An alcoholic drinks too much because of the corruption that is in his mind. All people suffer mental corruption because of the sin of Adam.

Would you let a paedophile run your Sunday school on the basis that serving the Lord might help him? I don't think so.

Would you prevent alcoholic from being set free by the blood of the Lamb?

I think your obsession with recreating the Passover meal has blinded you to simple common sense.

God's sense is anything but common. You should read you Bible a little more.

How long have you been a WOF believer?


By the way, pedophile is not spelled paedophile. I'm assuming that you meant pedophile.

 

[Andrew]

I never said, "God is not going to say, sorry, but I only recognise wine from Israel and unleavened bread made by Jews."

Maybe you might exercise you faith in order for God to be blessed you with having the right elements. God can hadle it.

You are being totally legalistic here and bound to a law here.

If you want to be so dogmatic about using wine, insisting that everyone, even the brother struggling with alcoholism, must use wine, how in the world do you know if you are using the right kind of grapes from the right valley using the right process that God appoves of?

You are blinded by legalism . When a person has a drinking problem there is no wisdom in giving him wine.

 

[Andrew]

The communion is a beautiful time of intimacy and fellowship with our Lord.

We come and sit at the table He prepares for us to remember His death on the cross. We tell Him: "Jesus, I remember. I remember, that night you were betrayed, that night they came and arrested you, you were spit on, beaten... you went to the scourging posts... by your stripes, I have healing... they put the crown of thorns on your head so that today, I can have peace of mind... they nailed you to the cross... you took my sins so that I can take your righteousness, you took my curses, so that I can take your blessings... Lord I remember it all, Lord I thank you.... "

When we look at the broken bread, we remember His body beaten, striped, pierced, burnt by the fire of God's wrath, so that ours can be made whole, so that we can have peace with God.

When we look at the cup, we are reminded that His precious blood has made us righteous as God Himself, so clean that God's own Spirit can indwell us!

That's what it's all about. And you want to get all dogmatic about using only wine?

 

[Prosperity]

Very true God honors the heart of the believer and is not woried abot tradition, while we should use the right elements it is not always necessary.

The mind is part of your spiritual heart which is your. Soul = mind, will and emotions. Your mind is part of your soul. This is where your decisions are formed. So how is it that you believe that God honors any decision that you make that you know to be contrary to His word?

God does, in his infinite mercy, honor less than perfect decisions by people when they are babies in Christ or incapable of performing certain cognitive mental processes. I believe that God makes these decisions based on the individuals level of spiritual maturity and/or ability to understand. This is why, when we are first born again, we seem to get things from God without even trying. Babies get things from their parents without putting any effort into it at all. Just as Godly parents don't want their babies to stay babies to stay babies, God doesn't want us to stay spiritual babies.

 

[PastorJoey]

The mind is part of your spiritual heart which is your. Soul = mind, will and emotions. Your mind is part of your soul. This is where your decisions are formed. So how is it that you believe that God honors any decision that you make that you know to be contrary to His word?

God does, in his infinite mercy, honor less than perfect decisions by people when they are babies in Christ or incapable of performing certain cognitive mental processes. I believe that God makes these decisions based on the individuals level of spiritual maturity and/or ability to understand. This is why, when we are first born again, we seem to get things from God without even trying. Babies get things from their parents without putting any effort into it at all. Just as Godly parents don't want their babies to stay babies to stay babies, God doesn't want us to stay spiritual babies.

I guess I'm a baby then. Bring on California's finest so I can grow up in Christ.
PJ

 

[Andrew]

We most defintiely are not under the Law and that is as born again believers our hearts will obey God. When God says forever I take it to mean that even though I am not under Law. There are many commands, most people look at the New Testament and dont think of commandments but there are many in there, over a 1,000 if I remember right.

Judaism has about 630+ laws.

And we have 1000+? Gosh, we are more under law and cursed then them!

 

[LeeS]

Jesus didn't take Passover at the last meal. He took and officiated over communion. He didn't take communion, prior to being crucified, once a year. He only took it once prior to being crucified. He, through His body has taken communion many time since the cross.

Communion isn't under the law. It is found only within the New Covenant.

If you are apprehensive about doing something that Jesus specifically did Himself and instructed His disciples and you to do, then maybe you are not operating any type of fait, but rather fear.

[size=+0]I do not see taking communion the way Jesus did as being legalistic, but it is being faithful to the Terms of the New Covenant which honors the Lord and serves to usher His blessing into and on us[/size][size=+0].[/size]

What? The Bible and Biblical history teaches otherwise. The last meal WAS a Passover meal.

First of all Jesus NEVER called it Communion. When he referenced the bread and the wine HE was performing a Passover Sader. "In as often as you do THIS" (THIS being Passover sader) Everything within the Sader points to Christ and what He did for us. And since he WAS Jewish He partook of a Passover sader every single year for His entire life.

I never said anything about being apprehensive. I merely pointed out that if one is going to be legalistic about taking "communion" then they should find out the true details surrounding it and do it. Jesus never called it communion. Jesus never said make it legalistic and require everyone to use real wine and leavened bread. Thats a nice touch but HE DID NOT TEACH IT. Churches have a penchant for taking real events and arrainging them around laws that God did not create.

 

[psalms 91]

Judaism has about 630+ laws.

And we have 1000+? Gosh, we are more under law and cursed then them!

Read the New Testament with that thought in mind and you tell me if there are not commandments in there. How about go ye forth in all the world, I dont see the word choice in there, I see a clear commandment

 

[PastorJoey]

Colossians 2:14-17 KJV

(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

(15) [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

(17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.
PJ

 

[Prosperity]

You are being totally legalistic here and bound to a law here.

Wanting to follow the example of Christ isn't legalistic, it is wisdom birthed out of love for Him.

If you want to be so dogmatic about using wine, insisting that everyone, even the brother struggling with alcoholism, must use wine, how in the world do you know if you are using the right kind of grapes from the right valley using the right process that God appoves of?

Not my concern. I can only do what I can discern from the Word. If Jesus had specified a particular type of wine, then that would be what I do.

I didn't insist that anyone do what I do what I do or even do as Jesus instructed. I'm simply stating that I believe it proper to take communion as Jesus instructed and gave us example. This is not my instruction or example. I didn't write the Bible. If you think that instructing people to drink wine at communion is arrogant or a threat to others, then go take it up with the Lord of Glory.

You are blinded by legalism.

I'm not quoting the Law of the old Covenant.

When a person has a drinking problem there is no wisdom in giving him wine.

So your saying that the blood of Jesus isn't powerful enough to deliver drunks from alcohol? Maybe obese people shouldn't eat the bread for fear of going on an eating binge.

The communion is a beautiful time of intimacy and fellowship with our Lord.

Agreed!

We come and sit at the table He prepares for us to remember His death on the cross. We tell Him: "Jesus, I remember. I remember, that night you were betrayed, that night they came and arrested you, you were spit on, beaten... you went to the scourging posts... by your stripes, I have healing... they put the crown of thorns on your head so that today, I can have peace of mind... they nailed you to the cross... you took my sins so that I can take your righteousness, you took my curses, so that I can take your blessings... Lord I remember it all, Lord I thank you.... "

When we look at the broken bread, we remember His body beaten, striped, pierced, burnt by the fire of God's wrath, so that ours can be made whole, so that we can have peace with God.

When we look at the cup, we are reminded that His precious blood has made us righteous as God Himself, so clean that God's own Spirit can indwell us!

That's what it's all about. And you want to get all dogmatic about using only wine?

If the cup makes you righteous as God Himself, then you must believe that either an alcoholic can be delivered through communion of that God is either an alcoholic Himself or that God is a respecter of persons, in that His righteousness is only reserved for you.

The privilege of taking Communion is part of our inheritance. Through faith, we have the privilege of becoming one with Jesus by the eating of His flesh (leavened bread) and drinking of His blood (wine). This is the result of God's grace. You seem to miss the whole point of communion. It is our opportunity to perfect our oneness in Jesus with the Father so that we might become all that He is and gain access to all that He has. This includes the Father, Holy Ghost, eternal live, divine health, prosperity and all manner of God's blessings.

 

[Prosperity]

I guess I'm a baby then.

So you have said.