Communion

[KingZzub]

Sounds good to me.

I once went to a Brethren church where I was invited by my flat mate. He had made it perfectly clear that it was a communion service, but that because I was Pentecostal they would not share with me and that I must *not* go out and get communion at any cost - or else.

I agreed with him that I would not take of their bread and their wine.

During the service while they were all wandering up the front to get their bread and wine, I pulled a wholemeal roll and a bottle of Ribena and a glass out of my bag and had my own communion. He spotted what I was doing, and started spluttering and coughing at me and pointing animatedly.

I broke my roll in half, passed half to him and said clearly and loudly "This is the body of Christ broken for you."

Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[riverpastor]

Z -

Faith in action, man!!!

Fantastic!

 

[KingZzub]

Glad you approve RP... my wife still has fits hearing about it.

I used to be the Assistant Pastor of an AoG church a few years ago.

One month, the Pastor asked me to take communion every week for the month, he felt that it had become a ritual and I agreed with him.

We actually had a liturgy, no one had ever written it down, but it happened EVERY communion service:

1. Brother X would thank God for His mercies and quote Romans 5.
2. Sister Y would sing "Thank You Jesus" twice.
3. Pastor would bless the bread and wine.
4. Communion would happen in total silence.

First week, I held an open time of prayer, but said that it would be great for people who had never prayed or sung a song before to join in.

Result: church completed ignored me and followed the liturgy.

Second week: I told the church that no-one was to pray that had ever prayed out loud in the church.

Result: church (especially Brother X and Sister Y) ignored me and liturgy went forward just as normal.

Third week: I told them there would be no open time of prayer this week, but I would do some talking about communion and what it meant.

Result: Sister Y starts singing "Thank You Jesus" over me and the church reluctantly joins in. I am very frustrated, Pastor doesn't deal with it, nor do I. Bit of a downer of a service.

Fourth week (after some prayer and fasting): I get up the front, and start eating the communion bread and ate it all up in front of them. I then drink all 65 little plastic cups of grape juice.

Everyone watches with shock and horror as I eat communion all by myself.

I tell the people: Now I have your attention, understand that you know nothing about communion. I preach for thirty minutes on communion and the power of the blood and body of Jesus, and then from under the table I pull out a bottle of non-alcoholic wine and a box of matzos. I pour the wine into a glass and smash the matzo over a plate, and I call the people forward: only if they are to come in faith for a blessing and for anointing.

Result:

Three people are healed during communion.
A marriage is restored that was totally on the rocks.
A lady is completely delivered from chronic agoraphobia.
Many people blessed and touched.

Some times we just need to smash some traditions to get some Word into some people, because when we bring the Word, the signs confirm the Word.

Blessings,
|ZZ|

 

[KingZzub]

P.S.

RiverPastor, do you actually pastor a river?

 

[riverpastor]

Yes, the Trinity River, unfortunately, it's the West Fork. I call it the Dirty Fork...

 

[KingZzub]

Yes, the Trinity River, unfortunately, it's the West Fork. I call it the Dirty Fork...

West Fork means nothing to me sorry... is this something to do with the river? Is it a famous river?

Or is it like "get in the river" in the Toronto style...

 

[fredflintstone]

I think useing real wine is fine if jesus made it its good enough for me.

 

[KingZzub]

Several buckets full at a time, Fred...

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Mod Hat
​

Hey all I see you're having a good time and all but lets try and keep to the initial post and be sensitive to not allowing the conversation to appear flippent and disrespectful towards an activity that brings remembrance of what He did for us. I really do appreciate it. ​

 

[chilifrankplate]

Glad you approve RP... my wife still has fits hearing about it.

I used to be the Assistant Pastor of an AoG church a few years ago.

One month, the Pastor asked me to take communion every week for the month, he felt that it had become a ritual and I agreed with him.

We actually had a liturgy, no one had ever written it down, but it happened EVERY communion service:

1. Brother X would thank God for His mercies and quote Romans 5.
2. Sister Y would sing "Thank You Jesus" twice.
3. Pastor would bless the bread and wine.
4. Communion would happen in total silence.

First week, I held an open time of prayer, but said that it would be great for people who had never prayed or sung a song before to join in.

Result: church completed ignored me and followed the liturgy.

Second week: I told the church that no-one was to pray that had ever prayed out loud in the church.

Result: church (especially Brother X and Sister Y) ignored me and liturgy went forward just as normal.

Third week: I told them there would be no open time of prayer this week, but I would do some talking about communion and what it meant.

Result: Sister Y starts singing "Thank You Jesus" over me and the church reluctantly joins in. I am very frustrated, Pastor doesn't deal with it, nor do I. Bit of a downer of a service.

Fourth week (after some prayer and fasting): I get up the front, and start eating the communion bread and ate it all up in front of them. I then drink all 65 little plastic cups of grape juice.

Everyone watches with shock and horror as I eat communion all by myself.

I tell the people: Now I have your attention, understand that you know nothing about communion. I preach for thirty minutes on communion and the power of the blood and body of Jesus, and then from under the table I pull out a bottle of non-alcoholic wine and a box of matzos. I pour the wine into a glass and smash the matzo over a plate, and I call the people forward: only if they are to come in faith for a blessing and for anointing.

Result:

Three people are healed during communion.
A marriage is restored that was totally on the rocks.
A lady is completely delivered from chronic agoraphobia.
Many people blessed and touched.

Some times we just need to smash some traditions to get some Word into some people, because when we bring the Word, the signs confirm the Word.

Blessings,
|ZZ|

Awesome story! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Prosperity]

Prosperity,

The Bible encompasses both the Covenants and the Law. God dealt with people accordingly, so to throw everyone under the elemental principles of the universe is to put them back under the Law.

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

The Abrahamic Covenant was still in FULL EFFECT even during the period of the Law. Those who believed it were counted as righteous, even outside of the provisions of the Law. It was due to unbelief that the Law was given.

What you are in essence saying is that: good=reward; bad=punishment?

I don't know where you think I said that at all. You may feel free where you think I said that instead of truing to put you words into my mouth. Since you brought it up, did you get good by doing bad! I missed that verse.

This is what Paul termed as the rudimentary or elemental principles of the universe.

The answer to my question is "nothing".

You might think that is the answer to your question, but you are in error. You are saying, in effect, that Jesus' teaching and example of how we are to take communion is of no importance, because you have discovered that you can take communion any way you choose, as long as you choose and without consequence. No, God won't hit you in the head with a bolt of lightening, but you will not continue to receive God's best if you're unwilling to get out of the cradle. You may also find yourself leaving this earthly plane sooner that your peers who hear what the Spirit is saying.

Grace operates through belief. The Law operates and actually leads you towards unbelief.

It sounds as if you think Grace means that you can be as disobedient to God as you choose and you will get God's best.

In Christ, we are given God's best.

There are a lot of people who are born again who are not receiving God's best in their everyday lifes. You don't have too look far to see this.

You're saying that by not taking Communion as you describe is to NOT have God's best.

You are confused. I didn't make up the description. This is the example and teaching of Jesus, not Prosperity. What I said is clear. Jesus is God's best, but people rarely receive God's best blessings for them in their every day life.

In Christ, we receive God's best whether or not we take Communion at all.

I guess that is why many sleep who have taken communion unworthily? Do you think that this is the best that God had in store for them?

Communion, I will add, is an act of faith, by all means.

And?

I have been healed on a number of occasions because of taking Communion. A flat cracker and organic grape juice is usually the staple.

Why did you need to take communion to be healed? I thought that you already had God's best because you had Christ. It is amazing how, when people get a miracle from God, that they automatically think it was the best God has for them. It also amazes me how some simply want to continue to get blessed as babes in Jesus for the rest of their life.

Or, was it satan that healed me to deceive me because I was not using wine

???

I won't respond to this sarcastic question.

I have simply stated what the Bible says, what Jesus taught and the example that Jesus gave us regarding communion. If you find it confusing, then maybe you should consult with God.

This is a WOF thread. If you were in fact a WOFer, you wouldn't be having the difficulty you are having understanding my terminology or my message.

You have a blessed day.

 

[Prosperity]

We are partakers of the Inheritance by faith.

We do not recieve the Inheritance based upon whether or not we partake of Communion with wine or juice or bud light.


I know Grace isn't popular, but the Covenant does not rely upon us - not dependent upon our "obedience", it relies upon God's promise solely.

The privilege of taking Communion is part of our inheritance. Through faith, we have the privilege of becoming one with Jesus by the eating of His flesh (leavened bread) and drinking of His blood (wine). This is the result of God's grace. You seem to miss the whole point of communion. It is our opportunity to perfect our oneness in Jesus with the Father so that we might become all that He is and gain access to all that He has. This includes the Father, Holy Ghost, eternal live, divine health, prosperity and all manner of God's blessings.

Obedience comes in the form of Holy Spirit operating in our lives.

Obedience is an act of our free will. We either choose to be obedient or we choose to be disobedient.

Holy Spirit has written the Law of Life into our spirit

The law was not written in your spirit. It was written in your heart which equals your mind.

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

If you would do a word study on the word heart, as it is used in the Bible, you'd find, almost without exception, that heart is synonymous with your mind which is part of your soul. Heart = mind, will and emotions.

The spirit-man is not our soul which is our decision maker. We make decisions in our minds as an act of our free will. This is where we decide to believe or not believe, to have faith or not to have faith, or to exercise our faith or not exercise our faith.

I offer this to you. The soul is to our spirit-man, what our physical brain is to our body, except our soul has governance over our physical brain and body. Our soul is what determines the strength of our spirit-man, i.e. if we decided in our soul to speak in tongues, we edify/strengthen our spirit-man.

Our soul prospers as it is conformed, by the Word, to the mind of Christ. Our health and prosperity is proportionally effected to this confirmation of our soul and vise versa if we don't conform our minds to the Word of god.

Remember, our spirit-man is forever sin free and is home to the Holy Ghost already. As our mind aligns more with Gods Word, the more harmoniously it functions with our spirit-man because our Godly spirit-man always wants our mind to function in an ever increasing Godly way. Also, the more in line with the Word our mind becomes, the better we are able to hear from the Holy Ghost.

As your body obeys you brain, so your spirit man obeys your soul. Our spirit-man was cleansed when we were Born-Again, providing a clean house for the Holy Ghost to move into. Conversely, our soul, (mind, will and emotions), to a large extent, still worked the way it did before we were born again. This is why our mind needs to be cleansed and we need to bring our will and emotions into line with Word. As your brain is integrated into, and is part of, your body, so too the soul is integrated into, and is part of, the whole spirit-man.

The soul emanates from, and co-exists in the same space as our brain, while our spirit-man emanates from and coexists in the same area as our blood. Together, they comprise what we (our soul and body) look like in the spirit realm. When we, that is our souls and spirit-man, leave our flesh, then our flesh dies. Our spirit-man, comprised of our soul and body, has a physical existence in the spirit realm, something like it does here, but on a much higher plain.

Your soul and spirit comprise your spirit man. You soul is just as spiritual as your spirit and is even more inexorably linked to your spirit as you physical brain is inexorably linked to you body. They both go to be with Jesus when you die. This was not true in the Old Testament, because the spirit-man was separated from God because of Adam's sin. Your spirit-man is now clean and full of the Holy Ghost and the soulish part of your spirit-man can now be washed with water (for the physical brain) and the word (for your soul).

There are some references to the soul which include our spirit-man and soul as a whole eternal being, but should not be confused with the thrust of this above conversation.

If I'm wrong, which I know I'm not, I'm in great company. KENNETH HAGIN Sr. also believed what I'm telling you.

This is similar as to what Paul stated:

Romans 14:3 - Let not him who eats look down on or despise him who abstains, and let not him who abstains criticize and pass judgment on him who eats; for God has accepted and welcomed him.​

Let's put it like this:

Let not him who drinks wine during Communion look down on or despise him who abstains, and let not him who abstains criticize and pass judgment on him who drinks wine; for God has accepted and welcomed him.

It appears as though we are accepted in Christ despite these differences.

You are perverting scripture to make your argument. Romans 14:3 is not referring to communion.

If healing or any other blessing were to come through Communion, it would not be because of the specifics of whether it was juice or wine (or bud light) or leavend or unleavened bread (or Ritz crackers), but through faith.

We obey Jesus because we have faith in what he taught. Hw can we say we have faith in Jesus if we won't even do as he taught us to do when taking communion.

We are accepted equally in Christ.

All of us are. Even the non-charismatic charismatics. The Baptists, Methodists, AoG's, WoF's, COGIC's, etc... They may not all experience the fullness of the Inheritance, but that does not discount the fact that they are accepted in Christ any more or any less than those who do.

Christ loves us equally, but if you are saying that all Christians achieve the same results in life, then you are obviously mistaken. You further error when you say all religions are equally accepted in Christ. Saved people are accepted in Christ. All people are of his creation, but not all are His children. If you aren't saved, then you aren't one of his.

Have a blessed day.

 

[rgleason]

The point of communion is not really in WHAT we are eating, but in WHY we eat it. I do not think that one's communion becomes void in God's eyes if one's bread was leavened or unleavened, or if it was grape juice or wine. The physical substance is not the point. What it represents (his broken body for out healing and His shed blood for our redemtion) is what matters. It is legalism to suggest that one must eat unleavened bread or wine, otherwise your communion is declared void. I have nothing against wine personally, I just don't like the taste. And whether it is leavened or unleaved bread, who cares? Probably best to get something bready, but otherwise, eat and drink whatever, but do it in rememberance of Christ and what He has done for us. There is freedom in Christ.

I love this comment because it is so close to the truth. Communion was a supper, a meal, and we should consider having a meal with our brothers and sisters in Christ as true communion and we do it as unto Him.

Some day we will sit at a meal with Him physically present and that is also a "rememberance of Him" that we should partake of the meal together with the understanding of.

How communion ever got reduced to a church building and a tiny glass of grape juice and a tiny piece of bread is just a denial of the fact that He meant to gather together at a meal in His name.

And as to Jesus drinking real wine, the Bible itself tells us that He did. At the wedding in Canna, when the good wine (which He miraculously produced) was presented...
You can't put new wine into old wine skins or they will burst....grape juice would not have burst them....
On the day of Pentecost (Acts: 2) the comment was made "These men are full of NEW WINE" and Peter said "No, they are not drunken as you suppose....."
So we see that new wine was fermented wine right from the Word itself.

Rev Roberta Gleason PhD

 

[Prosperity]

I love this comment because it is so close to the truth. Communion was a supper, a meal, and we should consider having a meal with our brothers and sisters in Christ as true communion and we do it as unto Him.

Some day we will sit at a meal with Him physically present and that is also a "rememberance of Him" that we should partake of the meal together with the understanding of.

How communion ever got reduced to a church building and a tiny glass of grape juice and a tiny piece of bread is just a denial of the fact that He meant to gather together at a meal in His name.

And as to Jesus drinking real wine, the Bible itself tells us that He did. At the wedding in Canna, when the good wine (which He miraculously produced) was presented...
You can't put new wine into old wine skins or they will burst....grape juice would not have burst them....
On the day of Pentecost (Acts: 2) the comment was made "These men are full of NEW WINE" and Peter said "No, they are not drunken as you suppose....."
So we see that new wine was fermented wine right from the Word itself.

Rev Roberta Gleason PhD

I agree with your entire post.

 

[PastorJoey]

Psalms 23:1-6 KJV

(1) <A Psalm of David.> The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want.(2) He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.(3) He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.(4) Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.(5) Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.6) Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalm 23 is speaking of communion/ The Lords table and the promises and benefits of it.
Since Communion is to be taken "as often as ye do this" and is not law then there is no restrictions as to what you can partake with communion as long as you understand its significance.
PJ

 

[Prosperity]

Since Communion is to be taken "as often as ye do this" and is not law then there is no restrictions as to what you can partake with communion as long as you understand its significance.
PJ

Nothing in scripture supports the above quote. If you understand the significance of communion, then you should understand the significance and Lordship of Jesus who gave us clear teaching and example of how to take communion. he did not say do any old way you want. he said, "...this do..."

It seems that you are saying that Jesus' example of communion is not really important. No offence intended, but I just don't see where you hold any value to any area of Jesus' example in the area of communion.

We were instructed on how to take communion. He said, "Do this..." not do something else. Do what? Do as he did. At a minimum, "Break bread, bless the bread and wine, eat the bread and drink the wine.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

I didn't write the Bible. I'm telling you that the Bible clearly states that Jesus selected bread and wine for communion. If Jesus had wanted to use Grape juice and Ritz, then He would have used grape juice and Ritz. Just as he turned water into wine, He could have just as easily spoken any elements he preferred into existence, but He chose bread and wine. Are you saying that you have chosen better than Jesus by using grape juice and Ritz? Why do you struggle against this so hard? Jesus knew what was and is doing.

I'm always amazed how people say that they preach, teach and believe the uncompromising word of God and then reach for the grape juice and Ritz crackers when taking for communion. They say that Jesus never made any mistakes and they are not ashamed of Him or His earthly ministry, but just can't seem to bring themselves to follow the Lord's example when taking communion.

Judging by most WOF people's reaction to using wine and leavened bread, they don't seem to think that Jesus had a clue about communion.

Personally, I've chosen to make him Lord of our communion and take communion His way and not the way I think best.

 

[Andrew]

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/communion.html

 

[Prosperity]

That was a prtyy good article.

Thank you!

David

 

[PastorJoey]

Nothing in scripture supports the above quote. If you understand the significance of communion, then you should understand the significance and Lordship of Jesus who gave us clear teaching and example of how to take communion. he did not say do any old way you want. he said, "...this do..."

It seems that you are saying that Jesus' example of communion is not really important. No offence intended, but I just don't see where you hold any value to any area of Jesus' example in the area of communion.

We were instructed on how to take communion. He said, "Do this..." not do something else. Do what? Do as he did. At a minimum, "Break bread, bless the bread and wine, eat the bread and drink the wine.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

I didn't write the Bible. I'm telling you that the Bible clearly states that Jesus selected bread and wine for communion. If Jesus had wanted to use Grape juice and Ritz, then He would have used grape juice and Ritz. Just as he turned water into wine, He could have just as easily spoken any elements he preferred into existence, but He chose bread and wine. Are you saying that you have chosen better than Jesus by using grape juice and Ritz? Why do you struggle against this so hard? Jesus knew what was and is doing.

I'm always amazed how people say that they preach, teach and believe the uncompromising word of God and then reach for the grape juice and Ritz crackers when taking for communion. They say that Jesus never made any mistakes and they are not ashamed of Him or His earthly ministry, but just can't seem to bring themselves to follow the Lord's example when taking communion.

Judging by most WOF people's reaction to using wine and leavened bread, they don't seem to think that Jesus had a clue about communion.

Personally, I've chosen to make him Lord of our communion and take communion His way and not the way I think best.

OK Prosperity. I dont even intend on debating about wether or not we are to drink fermented wine or not.

I havent ever taken communion with cake, brownies, orange juice or coke, but my question to you is, if we were in a situation where the only thing we had on hand was a stale piece of cake and half a can of hot cocacola, if the occasion called for communion, are you telling me that Jesus would not participate in it with us? This is what I mean by it not being a law.

I honestly am not wanting to debate this issue of wine, but my question to you is, suppose a person was an alcoholic, are you telling me or going to dare tell him that he Must use fermented wine in order for his communion to ever be accepted by Jesus? Give me a break!
PJ

 

[Prosperity]

OK Prosperity. I don't even intend on debating about whether or not we are to drink fermented wine or not.

There is no debate. The Bile is clear on this issue.

I haven't ever taken communion with cake, brownies, orange juice or coke, but my question to you is, if we were in a situation where the only thing we had on hand was a stale piece of cake and half a can of hot cocacola, if the occasion called for communion, are you telling me that Jesus would not participate in it with us? This is what I mean by it not being a law.

If you ever find yourself in that situation, take it up with God. He has summary authority on this issue.

I honestly am not wanting to debate this issue of wine, but my question to you is, suppose a person was an alcoholic, are you telling me or going to dare tell him that he Must use fermented wine in order for his communion to ever be accepted by Jesus? Give me a break!
PJ

Wine is not the issue with an alcoholic. The alcoholic's mind is the problem with the alcoholic just like with the drug addicts. Did it ever occur to you that taking communion might cleanse the alcoholic of alcoholism?