Communion

[LeeS]

Judaism has about 630+ laws.

And we have 1000+? Gosh, we are more under law and cursed then them!

Even all those 630 laws are not applicable to today.

There are many of those laws that would be broken merly by the attempt to keep them. The laws of sacrifices require it to be in the temple in Jerusalem. The temple was destroyed so it would be sacrilegious to perform a sacrifise now. Also there were laws written for the Levites only. There were laws written for men and for women and for children only.

One is not cursed by doing something they desire to do. One is cursed by belief that doing it is what saves them.

In this day and time and particular forum we could liken it to a law of "speaking in tongues". Several think that speaking in tongues makes them a better Christian so that is a "curse" to them. Not the speaking in tongues, but the belief that speaking in tongues makes them saved.

 

[Prosperity]

Judaism has about 630+ laws.

And we have 1000+? Gosh, we are more under law and cursed then them!

So are you saying that Jesus was being legalistic when he instructed and gave example as to ho we should take communion of that people who want to follow in his footsteps are being legalistic?

 

[LeeS]

Wanting to follow the example of Christ isn't legalistic, it is wisdom birthed out of love for Him.

Telling others they HAVE to do as you say is legalistic. I understand your point but Christ gave no example of communion. He did not served communion. He did not call it communion. It was a Passover meal and He was participating in HIS last one and then going out and becoming the demonstration of it.

 

[psalms 91]

Even all those 630 laws are not applicable to today.

There are many of those laws that would be broken merly by the attempt to keep them. The laws of sacrifices require it to be in the temple in Jerusalem. The temple was destroyed so it would be sacrilegious to perform a sacrifise now. Also there were laws written for the Levites only. There were laws written for men and for women and for children only.

One is not cursed by doing something they desire to do. One is cursed by belief that doing it is what saves them.

In this day and time and particular forum we could liken it to a law of "speaking in tongues". Several think that speaking in tongues makes them a better Christian so that is a "curse" to them. Not the speaking in tongues, but the belief that speaking in tongues makes them saved.

Very true and what about when the Holy Spirit tells you do something is that not a commandment and didnt Jesus himself say that those who love me will obey me

 

[Andrew]

Read the New Testament with that thought in mind and you tell me if there are not commandments in there. How about go ye forth in all the world, I dont see the word choice in there, I see a clear commandment

You are confusing the commandments of the Old Covenant with instructions in the new covenant.

When I say "commandment", I mean it in the sense of OT laws. -- commandments from God that MUST be obeyed, failing which God curses and punishes you. That's what I mean by "commandment" of God.

That's the Old Covenant system of law. That's what I mean when I say commandment.

To say that the New Covenant has similar commandments is error. There are only three laws in the new covenant -- law of love, law of faith, law of liberty. And even these laws, if failed to be obeyed (who's perfect?) does not come with a curse (except maybe for faith (righteous faith) becos one puts himself back under law).

So to say that there are 1000+ laws in the New Covenant JUST AS there are many laws in the Old covenant is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Prosperity]

What? The Bible and Biblical history teaches otherwise. The last meal WAS a Passover meal.
This is only true if Jeusus ate the passover lamb, and unleavend bread, and struck the door posts and lintils so that God;s judgement would pass him buy. The purpose of passover ows to avoid God's judgement.

What we call communion is the privilege of taking Communion is part of our inheritance. Through faith, we have the privilege of becoming one with Jesus by the eating of His flesh (leavened bread) and drinking of His blood (wine). This is the result of God's grace. You seem to miss the whole point of communion. It is our opportunity to perfect our oneness in Jesus with the Father so that we might become all that He is and gain access to all that He has. This includes the Father, Holy Ghost, eternal live, divine health, prosperity and all manner of God's blessings.

First of all Jesus NEVER called it Communion.

I never said that Jesus called it Communion, however it is taken so that we might commune in every way with the Lord. It is not taken to avoid God's judgment.

When he referenced the bread and the wine HE was performing a Passover Sader. "In as often as you do THIS" (THIS being Passover sader) Everything within the Sader points to Christ and what He did for us. And since he WAS Jewish He partook of a Passover sader every single year for His entire life.

This is not true because the purpose of Passover and communion are different. Again, communion is taken so that we might commune in every way with the Lord. It is not taken to avoid God's judgment. Passover was the legalisticw ay that people avoided God's judgment. Jesus was not being legalistic at the last supper.

I never said anything about being apprehensive. I merely pointed out that if one is going to be legalistic about taking "communion" then they should find out the true details surrounding it and do it. Jesus never called it communion. Jesus never said make it legalistic and require everyone to use real wine and leavened bread. Thats a nice touch but HE DID NOT TEACH IT. Churches have a penchant for taking real events and arrainging them around laws that God did not create.

Communion is about our becoming one with Jesus. Following Jesus example is not legalistic. Taking Passover is a legalistic act and no linger necessary. Either you are under the Law, or you aren't.

 

[PastorJoey]

Oh please lets not turn this into a debate about law. At least not in this thread. I am having too much fun just seeing how far prosperitys going to take communion.

PJ

 

[Prosperity]

Colossians 2:14-17 KJV

(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

This is why Passover is no longer necessary.

(15) [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

(17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.
PJ

I don't care what you eat or drink. I'm just telling you the reasons why Jesus instructed us to take communion the way He did. Take it up with him.

 

[Andrew]

Even all those 630 laws are not applicable to today.

There are many of those laws that would be broken merly by the attempt to keep them. The laws of sacrifices require it to be in the temple in Jerusalem. The temple was destroyed so it would be sacrilegious to perform a sacrifise now. Also there were laws written for the Levites only. There were laws written for men and for women and for children only.

One is not cursed by doing something they desire to do. One is cursed by belief that doing it is what saves them.

In this day and time and particular forum we could liken it to a law of "speaking in tongues". Several think that speaking in tongues makes them a better Christian so that is a "curse" to them. Not the speaking in tongues, but the belief that speaking in tongues makes them saved.

Amen.

Being under law simply means being under human self-effort, trusting in one's arm of flesh (credentials, intelligence, status etc)

The Bible groups law, flesh and works, Sinai, death in one category.

And grace, Spirit and faith, Zion, life in another category.


If I say that "Thou shalt use only wine in communion", then what happens is that people will only have the faith to receive the benefit of the communion when they are able to fulfill that law. IOW, their trust is now in their ability to fulfill that law. If for some reason, I can't fulfill that law, then I'm not worthy to receive the benefits.

When we try to keep laws, 2 things happen:

1. Either we become cocky and legalistic becos we deem ourselves able to fulfill it and think we are doing a fine job at keeping it and we insist others follow our standards.... or

2. We become miserable and condemned becos we can't fulfill it, or break it most of the time.

The Pharisees belonged to 1. The prostitutes and tax collectors belonged to 2.

Guess who Jesus showed grace to?

 

[KingZzub]

Oh please lets not turn this into a debate about law. At least not in this thread. I am having too much fun just seeing how far prosperitys going to take communion.

PJ

 

[Prosperity]

Even all those 630 laws are not applicable to today.

There are many of those laws that would be broken merly by the attempt to keep them. The laws of sacrifices require it to be in the temple in Jerusalem. The temple was destroyed so it would be sacrilegious to perform a sacrifise now. Also there were laws written for the Levites only. There were laws written for men and for women and for children only.

One is not cursed by doing something they desire to do. One is cursed by belief that doing it is what saves them.

In this day and time and particular forum we could liken it to a law of "speaking in tongues". Several think that speaking in tongues makes them a better Christian so that is a "curse" to them. Not the speaking in tongues, but the belief that speaking in tongues makes them saved.

Sounds as if you'd have a lot of complaints with God if you were under the Old Testament Law.

 

[KingZzub]

Can we take communion in our pjs?

Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[Prosperity]

Very true and what about when the Holy Spirit tells you do something is that not a commandment and didnt Jesus himself say that those who love me will obey me

Exactly!

 

[KingZzub]

Sounds as if you'd have a lot of complaints with God if you were under the Old Testament Law.

I would.

Only some people get to be priests, kings and prophets and not me being all three. Having to be God's servant and not His son. Only having faith in God and not the faith of God. Having to make do with accredited righteousness when I could BE the righteousness of God.

Having to approach with the blood of bulls and goats, and not freely approach the throne of grace...

No, I choose grace over law ANYDAY...

 

[Andrew]

The difference betw the Passover and the Holy Communion is that one is the shadow, the other is the substance.

When the Jews took the Passover, it was a lamb they ate, pointing to Christ.

BUT Christ HAS come. He is now the fulfillment of the Passover.

When He took the bread and broke it, He did not say eat this lamb, He said this is MY BODY.

So in that sense, the Holy Communion has superseded the Passover, simply becos the shadow/type gives way to the substance.

 

[Prosperity]

Oh please lets not turn this into a debate about law. At least not in this thread. I am having too much fun just seeing how far prosperitys going to take communion.

PJ

I wonder what Jesus would say to a man who mocks other for following Jesus' example?

 

[LeeS]

What we call communion is the privilege of taking Communion is part of our inheritance. Through faith, we have the privilege of becoming one with Jesus by the eating of His flesh (leavened bread) and drinking of His blood (wine). This is the result of God's grace. You seem to miss the whole point of communion. It is our opportunity to perfect our oneness in Jesus with the Father so that we might become all that He is and gain access to all that He has. This includes the Father, Holy Ghost, eternal live, divine health, prosperity and all manner of God's blessings.

I have not missed the point of "communion"

I never said that Jesus called it Communion, however it is taken so that we might commune in every way with the Lord. It is not taken to avoid God's judgment.

I know what the point of it is but you are saying that we MUST do it exactly as Jesus did and He was partaking in a PASSOVER meal.

This is not true because the purpose of Passover and communion are different. Again, communion is taken so that we might commune in every way with the Lord. It is not taken to avoid God's judgment. Passover was the legalisticw ay that people avoided God's judgment. Jesus was not being legalistic at the last supper.

Thats not true. What the church calls communion was done within the Passover meal that the church calls the Last Supper. You can find Messianic material on Passover on the internet. I suggest maybe you look it up.

Communion is about our becoming one with Jesus. Following Jesus example is not legalistic. Taking Passover is a legalistic act and no linger necessary.

Either you are under the Law, or you aren't.

Again not true. Please study the facts from the Jewish viewpoint vs the Gentile church. No one is required to celebrate Passover, then or now.

 

[Andrew]

I would.

Only some people get to be priests, kings and prophets and not me being all three. Having to be God's servant and not His son. Only having faith in God and not the faith of God. Having to make do with accredited righteousness when I could BE the righteousness of God.

Having to approach with the blood of bulls and goats, and not freely approach the throne of grace...

No, I choose grace over law ANYDAY...

I can see you've been weaned. No longer on milk but on solid meat.

Guess when Isaac (child of grace/promise) was persecuted by Ishmael (child of law/flesh)? When he was weaned. When he moved from milk to solid food (instructions in grace and righteousness).

Those who are estb in righteousness and grace will always be persecuted by those still under law.

 

[LeeS]

I wonder what Jesus would say to a man who mocks other for following Jesus' example?

You're not being mocked. You're being challenged. Requiring one to DO, is legalism.

 

[Andrew]

Can we take communion in our pjs?

Cheers,
|ZZ|

Only if the fabric is kosher and the color is red.