COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[klutedavid]

Luke 21:25 “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”


You're not suggesting that this has happened already, are you?

Of course not my friend.

This event occurs at the end of the era of the Gentiles, the era we are currently in.

Luke 21
24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Covenant Israel vanished two thousand years ago, as Jesus predicted it would, never to be seen again.

 

[Dig4truth]

Of course not my friend.

This event occurs at the end of the era of the Gentiles, the era we are currently in.

Luke 21
24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Covenant Israel vanished two thousand years ago, as Jesus predicted it would, never to be seen again.

I agree. But at which time does the abomination of desolation occur? Because that is the time that Yeshua equated with not fleeing on the Sabbath.

v.15 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet... v.20 But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

You're way passed amazing with your statements.

Galatians 4: 24 Which things are two covenants, the one from mount Sinai which gendereth bondage which is Agar and aswereth to Jerusalem (on mount Zion the second of the two covenants) which now is and is in bondage" JUST LIKE Agar-Sinai the older of the two covenants both of BONDAGE. "But Jerusalem which is ABOVE, IS FREE the mother of us all" who are of SPIRITUAL ISRAEL of the NEW Covenant and Everlasting Covenant of God's Grace which was BEFORE, ANY, earthly and human FUTILE covenant by the LYING oath of man as FROM his CREATION to any which "NOW IS".

God, NEVER, swore a transitory, temporary covenant which gets old or nears extinction. God, EVER, is the God of his Covenant from everlasting to everlasting IN JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Being led (walking in) by the Spirit means we're not walking in the law. See Galatians 5:18 and Romans 8.

More God and Holy Spirit taunting I have not seen...

 

[Joelthe vicious]

First I don't teach your "if" as you imply. Secondly were was grace repealed? I find it is still offered.

Who said grace was repealed? Not I.

 

[klutedavid]

I agree. But at which time does the abomination of desolation occur? Because that is the time that Yeshua equated with not fleeing on the Sabbath.

v.15 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet... v.20 But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

Jesus is referring to the desolation of Jerusalem.

20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. (Luke 21)

There are two different events that Jesus is predicting, one is the end of Jerusalem, the other event is the end of the world. Those in Judea must flee to the mountains and especially those in Jerusalem. Hopefully they will not need to flee in winter or on the Sabbath.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

To NOT continue in the Law which was abolished in and with and through the crucified Jesus, does not mean one is Lawless, for Christ in Person now is the Living embodiment and presentation of God's LAW, his Holy "Word", that "in the beginning, was", and became a Man so that now, "the Son of Man" is the "Keeper" of the Sabbath. He alone is fit, because He alone overcame death so that "the LORD caused Him to ride upon the heights of the earth", "God having raised Christ from the dead, Enthroning, Setting, Resting Him Up, His Own Right Hand His Heavenly MAJESTY", "MOST HOLY PLACE", "on the Sabbath Day in fullness!"

 

[Bob S]

Flee to the mountains? That is something I was taught as an Adventist, The problem is that there are very few mountains that are not inhabited any more. The prophet got her wires crossed there. Even if one could find an isolated spot drones would surely pick out where they were hiding.

We know Jerusalem was sacked and the Temple demolished in AD70. What we do not know is if something like that will happen again. Scripture is vague and it takes some filling in to get another one.

 

[listed]

God NEVER, made ‘another’, 'old', covenant. God, EVER made one Covenant, His, Covenant, the Ever New, ETERNAL Covenant of his grace. Which throughout the history of God's Salvation had TWO "dispensations", id est, "ministrations", that of before Christ, and that of since Christ.
The ministrations are usually mistaken for the Covenant, and from that, the laws of the administration of God's Covenant are mistaken for the Law of God's Covenant of grace its 'Law' exhibited and defined and IDENTIFIED by, in, through and BEING, Jesus Christ the Son of Man the Son of God, who is the reason "that whosoever believe in Him has, everlasting life" imprescriptively, unconditionally and inalienably!

Ministrations and covenant are the same thing here. A covenant administers.

 

[listed]

Even Yeshua said;

15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18 Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Mat 24


Why would Yeshua say such a thing if the Sabbath was not still one of His commands? This is also clearly in the end times!

Exactly who was Jesus speaking to in your above quote? I believe the context show Jesus speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[listed]

It is the same connection that God's people have who by FAITH that works by LOVE do not lie, steal, murder or commit adultery ....

Wrong covenant (agreement). Besides that how do you explain Like 6:31 without doing evil or even keeping the ten commandments? If you ask unchurched people what the ten commandments are, you might get a huh. Yet they on the whole don't murder.

 

[listed]

Luke 21:25 “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”


You're not suggesting that this has happened already, are you?

Yes he is. Now were you at the destruction of Jerusalem?

 

[listed]

I agree. But at which time does the abomination of desolation occur? Because that is the time that Yeshua equated with not fleeing on the Sabbath.

v.15 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet... v.20 But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

Who was Jesus speaking to and about what?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Wrong covenant (agreement). Besides that how do you explain Like 6:31 without doing evil or even keeping the ten commandments? If you ask unchurched people what the ten commandments are, you might get a huh. Yet they on the whole don't murder.

Really? What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? (Scripture please)

 

[listed]

Really? What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? (Scripture please)

The entire OT. I as a both a gentile and Christian ain't part of the covenant issued at Sinai. As a gentile I'm free to enter that covenant. But I ask why should I when there is a better covenant? You see the covenant issued to Israel as a covenant with all mankind. I don't based on the writings of Moses. You see what I call the NC as nothing more than an amendment to the covenant issued to Israel at Sinai. Both Jeremiah and Jesus said "new" as in never before. This is verified with verse 32. You refuse to talk about that verse as it reads. The word "new" is not the word "renew." New is an adjective describing something. In Jeremiah 31 it describes a covenant. You try to make it a verb which is action. What is this "new testament" in Jesus blood?

Even in the Matthew 19 passage you love to quote; the full story is to follow Jesus. It's not to follow the law. Even then you want us to follow the law as Jesus did. But what is the disciple to do? Are they to live as their master or are they to do the teaching of the Master? You maintain salvation is earned, not granted. You maintain keeping the law grants life, well eternal life which it doesn't, Read Deuteronomy 29 and 30.

Another word you are taught to abuse is "you." The teaching of your church is it means all mankind. The truth is in English the word "you" is always limited and qualified in application. The word "you" is always used in conversation with another involved in the conversation one way or another. When talking about third parties (those not involved in the conversation) words like - "them" and "they" are used.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The entire OT. I as a both a gentile and Christian ain't part of the covenant issued at Sinai. As a gentile I'm free to enter that covenant. But I ask why should I when there is a better covenant? You see the covenant issued to Israel as a covenant with all mankind. I don't based on the writings of Moses. You see what I call the NC as nothing more than an amendment to the covenant issued to Israel at Sinai. Both Jeremiah and Jesus said "new" as in never before. This is verified with verse 32. You refuse to talk about that verse as it reads. The word "new" is not the word "renew." New is an adjective describing something. In Jeremiah 31 it describes a covenant. You try to make it a verb which is action. What is this "new testament" in Jesus blood?

Even in the Matthew 19 passage you love to quote; the full story is to follow Jesus. It's not to follow the law. Even then you want us to follow the law as Jesus did. But what is the disciple to do? Are they to live as their master or are they to do the teaching of the Master? You maintain salvation is earned, not granted. You maintain keeping the law grants life, well eternal life which it doesn't, Read Deuteronomy 29 and 30.

Another word you are taught to abuse is "you." The teaching of your church is it means all mankind. The truth is in English the word "you" is always limited and qualified in application. The word "you" is always used in conversation with another involved in the conversation one way or another. When talking about third parties (those not involved in the conversation) words like - "them" and "they" are used.

You did not answer the question. What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? (Scripture please). If you do not know the answer to the question you do not need to answer it. Just let me know?

 

[listed]

You did not answer the question. What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? (Scripture please). If you do not know the answer to the question you do not need to answer it. Just let me know?

Please read the first sentence of my post.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Please read the first sentence of my post.

Hi listed,

Yes that does not answer the question which was....

What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? (Scripture please).

If you do not know the answer or do not want to answer the question you do not have to just let me know. Do you know the answer?

 

[Dig4truth]

Jesus is referring to the desolation of Jerusalem.

20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. (Luke 21)

There are two different events that Jesus is predicting, one is the end of Jerusalem, the other event is the end of the world. Those in Judea must flee to the mountains and especially those in Jerusalem. Hopefully they will not need to flee in winter or on the Sabbath.

So you believe that the abomination of desolation occured at 70AD?

 

[Dig4truth]

Exactly who was Jesus speaking to in your above quote? I believe the context show Jesus speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem.

Ok, but at what timeframe?

Daniel spoke of this event as occurring at the end times:

Dan 12:8 I heard this, but I couldn’t understand what it meant; so I asked, “Lord, what will be the outcome of all this?” 9 But he said, “Go your way, Dani’el; for these words are to remain secret and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will purify, cleanse and refine themselves; but the wicked will keep on acting wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand. But those with discernment will understand. 11 From the time the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 How blessed will be anyone who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days. 13 But you, go your way until the end comes. Then you will rest and rise for your reward, at the end of days.”

Yeshua was speaking to His followers. Daniel was speaking to God's people also.