COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Dig4truth]

Col 2:14-17 He wiped away the bill of charges against us. Because of the regulations, it stood as a testimony against us; but he removed it by nailing it to the execution-stake. 15 Stripping the rulers and authorities of their power, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by means of the stake.

16 So don’t let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat. 17 These are a shadow of things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah. CJB


I saw that you believe that part of the Torah was nailed to the cross, allow me to say that I totally disagree with that.

Yeshua Himeslf said that he did not come to abolish the Torah and that not one jot or tittle will pass away until the heaven and earth passes away. How do you justify your position?

 

[Dig4truth]

Col 2:14-17 He wiped away the bill of charges against us. Because of the regulations, it stood as a testimony against us; but he removed it by nailing it to the execution-stake. 15 Stripping the rulers and authorities of their power, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by means of the stake.

16 So don’t let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat. 17 These are a shadow of things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah. CJB



The "bill of charges" is not part of the Torah. Yeshua Himself said that "He did not come to abolish the Torah" and that "not one letter or stroke will pass from the Torah until heaven and earth pass away". Yet you say that He has, please justify this position.

 

[Bob S]

Hebrews 7:12

Col 2:14-17 He wiped away the bill of charges against us. Because of the regulations, it stood as a testimony against us; but he removed it by nailing it to the execution-stake. 15 Stripping the rulers and authorities of their power, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by means of the stake.

16 So don’t let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat. 17 These are a shadow of things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah. CJB



The "bill of charges" is not part of the Torah. Yeshua Himself said that "He did not come to abolish the Torah" and that "not one letter or stroke will pass from the Torah until heaven and earth pass away". Yet you say that He has, please justify this position.

I like the NLT for Matt5. It uses language in modern English which is what I understand.

17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. 19 So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Heaven and Earth passing has to be a metaphor. If it isn't then Jews to whom Jesus is conversing with are still required to do all the Sinai covenant required. You Messianics and all of Judaism ignore most of the requirements if your interpretation is correct. Yes, the Temple was demolished, well then rebuild it. Restore the Levitical Priesthood and the Temple requirements. Here I though Jesus was the final sacrifice. If Matt 5 means what you tell us then Jesus is not the final sacrifice. Get those fires burning. You have a lot of meat to roast. In other words put your money where your mouth is. You tell us one thing and do another.

How could Jesus be the author of the new covenant if He still wants Israel to stay under the old one? Do you deny Hebrews 8:
Hebrews 8:13
When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete.(see 2Cor 3:7-11 below) It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

Hebrews 9:15
That is why he is the one who mediates a new covenant between God and people, so that all who are called can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

Torah would only remain until all be fulfilled Matt5. Jesus didn't just fulfill a portion of Torah, He fulfilled all of it. That is why Paul could write in 2Cor3:
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

The heart of the Sinai covenant WAS done away. Am I supposed to cull Paul's writing in favor of your interpretation of Matt5:17-18?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The heart of the Sinai covenant WAS done away. Am I supposed to cull Paul's writing in favor of your interpretation of Matt5:17-18?

Bob, Paul disagrees with you and he does not teach God's LAW was done away whatsoever. It was the OLD Covenant. Maybe a simple question can help and we can look at the scriptures?

What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? If you do not know what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?

 

[Dig4truth]

Hebrews 7:12

I like the NLT for Matt5. It uses language in modern English which is what I understand.

17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. 19 So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Heaven and Earth passing has to be a metaphor. If it isn't then Jews to whom Jesus is conversing with are still required to do all the Sinai covenant required. You Messianics and all of Judaism ignore most of the requirements if your interpretation is correct. Yes, the Temple was demolished, well then rebuild it. Restore the Levitical Priesthood and the Temple requirements. Here I though Jesus was the final sacrifice. If Matt 5 means what you tell us then Jesus is not the final sacrifice. Get those fires burning. You have a lot of meat to roast. In other words put your money where your mouth is. You tell us one thing and do another.

How could Jesus be the author of the new covenant if He still wants Israel to stay under the old one? Do you deny Hebrews 8:
Hebrews 8:13
When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete.(see 2Cor 3:7-11 below) It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

Hebrews 9:15
That is why he is the one who mediates a new covenant between God and people, so that all who are called can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

Torah would only remain until all be fulfilled Matt5. Jesus didn't just fulfill a portion of Torah, He fulfilled all of it. That is why Paul could write in 2Cor3:
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

The heart of the Sinai covenant WAS done away. Am I supposed to cull Paul's writing in favor of your interpretation of Matt5:17-18?

Yeshua said that He didn't come to abolish "the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets". It is in the Prophets that we see Yeshua's return, some of the wars leading up to Yeshua's return and many other "end time" events.

In fact Daniel's vision of the metallic statue ends with its destruction, signifying that the nations that oppose God's plan will be destroyed. This has not occured yet. Yeshua has not returned yet - ALL has NOT been fulfilled in the Tanach (Law Prophets Writtings).

Heaven and earth ending is perhaps a metaphor but it is a very strong one, it's meaning cannot be hidden. It has been pointed out that heaven and earth are the two witnesses of the Torah. (see Deut 4). Since that is the case they must remain to stand as a witness and the Tanach cannot fail until they are removed.

 

[Bob S]

Bob, Paul disagrees with you and he does not teach God's LAW was done away whatsoever. It was the OLD Covenant. Maybe a simple question can help and we can look at the scriptures?

What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? If you do not know what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?

Do my eyes deceive me or is it your posts? The King James version tells us the 10 commandments were done away. The newer versions tell us the 10 commandments were transient. All are written in past tense. Your "simple" question only shows your relentless desire not to take Paul at his word. It is either Paul's writings or the false prophet's writings. You have made your choice. Too bad. You have subjected yourself to the old covenant but refuse to obey all the laws Jesus would have kept making you a very unreliable person to pattern myself even if you could possibly interpret 2Cor3:7-11 differently. At least the Messianics observe the feast days, but even at that it is only a half hearted attempt to be Torah observant.

 

[Bob S]

Yeshua said that He didn't come to abolish "the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets". It is in the Prophets that we see Yeshua's return, some of the wars leading up to Yeshua's return and many other "end time" events.

In fact Daniel's vision of the metallic statue ends with its destruction, signifying that the nations that oppose God's plan will be destroyed. This has not occured yet. Yeshua has not returned yet - ALL has NOT been fulfilled in the Tanach (Law Prophets Writtings).

Heaven and earth ending is perhaps a metaphor but it is a very strong one, it's meaning cannot be hidden. It has been pointed out that heaven and earth are the two witnesses of the Torah. (see Deut 4). Since that is the case they must remain to stand as a witness and the Tanach cannot fail until they are removed.

Your theory would make Jesus an unreliable Savior. Not only that, Jesus would not have done all that He came to do. Had the old covenant had the power to save it would indeed still be in existence and Jesus would not have had to come and save mankind. Your theory would have us under two conflicting covenants at the same time with the same author. The first one being addressed only to Israel as their guide as how they were to live in the desert and later in Canaan. The first one had nothing to do concerning salvation because that was not its purpose. Ex19:5-6. 5 Now if you will obey me and keep my covenant, you will be my own special treasure from among all the peoples on earth; for all the earth belongs to me. 6 And you will be my kingdom of priests, my holy nation.’ This is the message you must give to the people of Israel.”

As you can plainly see the covenant was only for Israel and how they were to become a holy people and a great nation. Neither happened.

Moses knew the plan of salvation as we can read in the account of Abraham. I am sure he taught all the Israelites that plan. The writers of the Old Testament wrote many beautiful passages on salvation. This is what Israel failed to spread to all the World. Had God wanted all nations to be under the laws given only to Israel it would have happened.

The new covenant ratified by Jesus own blood for the nation of Israel and open for all mankind is purely one of salvation and fulfills all that He intended to do while on this Earth. When we give our hearts to Jesus we, at that moment, are starting our eternal journey with Him.

 

[listed]

Bob, Paul disagrees with you and he does not teach God's LAW was done away whatsoever. It was the OLD Covenant. Maybe a simple question can help and we can look at the scriptures?

What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? If you do not know what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?

No it's you that disagrees with Paul. Romans and Galatians are proof. Paul even goes so far as to say throw out the law.

 

[listed]

Yeshua said that He didn't come to abolish "the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets". It is in the Prophets that we see Yeshua's return, some of the wars leading up to Yeshua's return and many other "end time" events.

In fact Daniel's vision of the metallic statue ends with its destruction, signifying that the nations that oppose God's plan will be destroyed. This has not occured yet. Yeshua has not returned yet - ALL has NOT been fulfilled in the Tanach (Law Prophets Writtings).

Heaven and earth ending is perhaps a metaphor but it is a very strong one, it's meaning cannot be hidden. It has been pointed out that heaven and earth are the two witnesses of the Torah. (see Deut 4). Since that is the case they must remain to stand as a witness and the Tanach cannot fail until they are removed.

Luke 24:44 and Hebrews 7:12. are all that's necessayr to debunk what you claim.

 

[Bob S]

Sorry, I misquoted Listed.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No it's you that disagrees with Paul. Romans and Galatians are proof. Paul even goes so far as to say throw out the law.

Hmm you have not quoted any proof only listed some books. Let's talk scripture. Prove your point.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do my eyes deceive me or is it your posts? The King James version tells us the 10 commandments were done away.

No it doesn't. That is why I asked you the questions..

What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? If you do not know what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?

It is your understanding of the SHADOW laws in the OLD COVENANT that has lead you to an incorrect interpretation of God's WORD. You mix up the SHADOWS laws with those that are eternal.

The newer versions tell us the 10 commandments were transient. All are written in past tense. Your "simple" question only shows your relentless desire not to take Paul at his word. It is either Paul's writings or the false prophet's writings. You have made your choice. Too bad. You have subjected yourself to the old covenant but refuse to obey all the laws Jesus would have kept making you a very unreliable person to pattern myself even if you could possibly interpret 2Cor3:7-11 differently. At least the Messianics observe the feast days, but even at that it is only a half hearted attempt to be Torah observant.

Where are your scriptures. You quote 2 COR 3:7-11 because you BELIEVE 2 COR 3:7-11 means God's 10 Commandments have been ABOLISHED correct? Let's look at this claim from God's WORD but we will also include CONTEXT and the verses around your interpretation...

2 CORINTHIANS 3:1-12
1, Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2, You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3, Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.
4, And such trust have we through Christ toward God:
5, Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6, Who also has made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
7, But if the ministry of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8, How shall not the ministry of the Spirit be more glorious?
9, For if the ministry of condemnation be glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness exceed in glory.
10, For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels.

Now take a look at v3 highlighted in RED which is the CONTEXT or what follows.

Now take a look at the NEW COVENANT promise from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and repeated by the same same author as Corinthians in Hebrews 8:10-12 and 10:16-17

Hebrews 8:10-12
10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11, And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12, For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

This is the part that is transitory as you say. 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about the NEW COVENANT of God's LAW written on the heart through LOVE by His Spirit. The is moving the tables of stone to the fleshly tables of the heart (2 Cor 3:3; Hebrews 8:10)

Let's look at the scriptures laid out together side by side...

2 Cor 3:3, Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.

links to...

Hebrews 8:10
10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

links to...

ROMANS 13:8-10
8, Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
9, For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
10, Love works no ill to his neighbor: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

God's LAW under the NEW COVENANT written on the fleshly tables of the heart through FAITH that works by LOVE by God's Spirit (Romans 8:1-4).

...................

Bob you make a mistake here. The scriptures say God's LAW written on the heart is NOT the MINISTRY of DEATH. It is the penalty of the LAW that is the MINSTRY of DEATH because of SIN; as it is written...

ROMANS 6:23 [23] The WAGES OF SIN is DEATH but the GIFT of GOD is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

and again.....

ROMANS 7:10-14
10, And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11, For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12, Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13, Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.
14, For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The MINISTRY OF DEATH is the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH because the wages of SIN is death. This is the carnal sinful nature of man. It is not the LAW of GOD this is only the MIRROR that we look into to see who we are in order to seek the Savior.

If you break ANY of God's Commandments you are under the Minsitry of DEATH because the wages of SIN is death (Romans 6:23) This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten.

SUMMARY:

The CONTEXT of 2 COR 3:1-12 is that UNDER THE NEW COVENANT God's LAW is written on the heart to LOVE through FAITH in Christ. 2 COR 3 is NOT saying God's 10 Commandments are ABOLISHED and we are free to sin. Jesus came to save us from SIN not IN SIN.

If that was the case Paul would be lying when he says in ROMANS 3:31 31, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

God's LAW shows us we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through FAITH. God's LAW (10 Commandments) is the KNOWLDEGE of what SIN is (Romans 3:20).

* If you have no KNOWLDGE of what SIN you do not KNOW you are a SINNER.
* If you do not KNOW you are a sinner you have no need of a SAVIOR (Matthew 9:12-13)
* If you have no need of a SAVIOR then you have no need of SALVATION
* If you have no SALVATION then you are LOST because you are still in your SINS.

Can you can see where your teachings are leading?

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[Bob S]

No it doesn't. That is why I asked you the questions..

What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? If you do not know what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?

It is your understanding of the SHADOW laws in the OLD COVENANT that has lead you to an incorrect interpretation of God's WORD. You mix up the SHADOWS laws with those that are eternal.

Where are your scriptures. You quote 2 COR 3:7-11 because you BELIEVE 2 COR 3:7-11 means God's 10 Commandments have been ABOLISHED correct? Let's look at this claim from God's WORD but we will also include CONTEXT and the verses around your interpretation...

2 CORINTHIANS 3:1-12
1, Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2, You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3, Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.
4, And such trust have we through Christ toward God:
5, Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6, Who also has made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
7, But if the ministry of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8, How shall not the ministry of the Spirit be more glorious?
9, For if the ministry of condemnation be glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness exceed in glory.
10, For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels.

Now take a look at v3 highlighted in RED which is the CONTEXT or what follows.

Now take a look at the NEW COVENANT promise from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and repeated by the same same author as Corinthians in Hebrews 8:10-12 and 10:16-17

Hebrews 8:10-12
10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11, And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12, For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

This is the part that is transitory as you say. 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about the NEW COVENANT of God's LAW written on the heart through LOVE by His Spirit. The is moving the tables of stone to the fleshly tables of the heart (2 Cor 3:3; Hebrews 8:10)

Let's look at the scriptures laid out together side by side...

2 Cor 3:3, Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.

links to...

Hebrews 8:10
10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

links to...

ROMANS 13:8-10
8, Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
9, For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
10, Love works no ill to his neighbor: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

God's LAW under the NEW COVENANT written on the fleshly tables of the heart through FAITH that works by LOVE by God's Spirit (Romans 8:1-4).

...................

Bob you make a mistake here. The scriptures say God's LAW written on the heart is NOT the MINISTRY of DEATH. It is the penalty of the LAW that is the MINSTRY of DEATH because of SIN; as it is written...

ROMANS 6:23 [23] The WAGES OF SIN is DEATH but the GIFT of GOD is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

and again.....

ROMANS 7:10-14
10, And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11, For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12, Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13, Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.
14, For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The MINISTRY OF DEATH is the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH because the wages of SIN is death. This is the carnal sinful nature of man. It is not the LAW of GOD this is only the MIRROR that we look into to see who we are in order to seek the Savior.

If you break ANY of God's Commandments you are under the Minsitry of DEATH because the wages of SIN is death (Romans 6:23) This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten.

SUMMARY:

The CONTEXT of 2 COR 3:1-12 is that UNDER THE NEW COVENANT God's LAW is written on the heart to LOVE through FAITH in Christ. 2 COR 3 is NOT saying God's 10 Commandments are ABOLISHED and we are free to sin. Jesus came to save us from SIN not IN SIN.

If that was the case Paul would be lying when he says in ROMANS 3:31 31, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

God's LAW shows us we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through FAITH. God's LAW (10 Commandments) is the KNOWLDEGE of what SIN is (Romans 3:20).

* If you have no KNOWLDGE of what SIN you do not KNOW you are a SINNER.
* If you do not KNOW you are a sinner you have no need of a SAVIOR (Matthew 9:12-13)
* If you have no need of a SAVIOR then you have no need of SALVATION
* If you have no SALVATION then you are LOST because you are still in your SINS.

Can you can see where your teachings are leading?

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

No it is not a transfer from stone to the heart. Paul didn't come near writing that. He wrote that the ministry of death is done away with, period. Your mess of scripture trying to prove your point reminds me of how old Hiram Edson and the tangle of scripture using lunar timing and one year as a thousand to derive at the Investigative Judgment.

 

[listed]

Bob, Paul disagrees with you and he does not teach God's LAW was done away whatsoever. It was the OLD Covenant. Maybe a simple question can help and we can look at the scriptures?

What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? If you do not know what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?

What is Paul doing in Galatians 4 with his allegory? My specific focus is verse 30.

What is being said in Hebrews 10 with the first and second?

 

[listed]

Yeshua said that He didn't come to abolish "the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets". It is in the Prophets that we see Yeshua's return, some of the wars leading up to Yeshua's return and many other "end time" events.

In fact Daniel's vision of the metallic statue ends with its destruction, signifying that the nations that oppose God's plan will be destroyed. This has not occured yet. Yeshua has not returned yet - ALL has NOT been fulfilled in the Tanach (Law Prophets Writtings).

Heaven and earth ending is perhaps a metaphor but it is a very strong one, it's meaning cannot be hidden. It has been pointed out that heaven and earth are the two witnesses of the Torah. (see Deut 4). Since that is the case they must remain to stand as a witness and the Tanach cannot fail until they are removed.

This is misapplication of Jesus' words as Luke 24:44 proves.

 

[listed]

Hmm you have not quoted any proof only listed some books. Let's talk scripture. Prove your point.

The passages have been quoted to you many times. I referenced those quotes merely by naming the books. You won't accept anything I say, so go read what I suggested and read only what is there.

 

[listed]

No it doesn't. That is why I asked you the questions..

What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view? If you do not know what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?

Why isn't Deuteronomy 4:13 good enough for you on this?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No it is not a transfer from stone to the heart. Paul didn't come near writing that. He wrote that the ministry of death is done away with, period. Your mess of scripture trying to prove your point reminds me of how old Hiram Edson and the tangle of scripture using lunar timing and one year as a thousand to derive at the Investigative Judgment.

Hello Bob,

You did not even read what you were responding to did you?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What is Paul doing in Galatians 4 with his allegory? My specific focus is verse 30.

What is being said in Hebrews 10 with the first and second?

Galatians 4; The Bond women represents being a slave to sin (breaking God's law). The free women represents freedom from SIN (OBEDIENCE to the law) by FAITH

Hebrews 10; Is talking about the ORDINANCES for remission of sin in SHADOWS pointing to JESUS. If you read the OP here this chapter is used a lot. You mix up your SHADOWS with those that are eternal. I sugggest you read the OP.

Well none of those scriptures support your belief

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Why isn't Deuteronomy 4:13 good enough for you on this?

Why should it be? I BELIEVE EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God.